1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New Dolphins only policy “Proper Anthem Conduct”

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Vertical Limit, Jul 19, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    I haven't seen proof of that. People have to buy jerseys to burn them.
     
  2. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,422
    5,732
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    Then why did you entertain my first post and argue against the topic? I'll give you a hint: because it is relevant to the conversation in how people are comparing their normal lives to that of a pro athlete in how they are not allowed to protest in their workplace.
     
  3. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,357
    20,976
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
  4. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,357
    20,976
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    I didn't argue. I pointed out that people watching Brady play vs no one watching Dark Knight work at AT&T has nothing to do with this topic.

    The comparison, and rightfully so, is what is and isn't an infringement of rights. Federal Law in this country, in regards to workers rights, is no different at AT&T than they are in the NFL.
     
    xphinfanx likes this.
  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Fin D and CaribPhin like this.
  6. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,422
    5,732
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    CaribPhin likes this.
  7. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,357
    20,976
    113
    Sep 4, 2014

    "Nearly one-third (32 percent) of adults say they're less likely to watch NFL game telecasts because of the Kaepernick-led player protests against racial injustice, according to Rasmussen's telephone/online survey of 1,000 American adults conducted Oct. 2-3."
     
  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Again. Not proof of anything. Just a survey. Does not show that the NFL has actually lost revenue and the actual hard data has not shown that to be the case
     
    Fin D likes this.
  9. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

    11,035
    4,419
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Just gonna say this one thing, and I'm out this conversation.

    The fact, that is either often ignored or often lost, is that the kneeling happened after an actual military vet suggested it to Colin Kaepernick after the two talked about it. So, I think the "disrespect of the troops and the flag" argument is baseless and just a take used to distract from the reason behind their protest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
    Fin D, smahtaz, Fin-O and 4 others like this.
  10. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

    362
    368
    63
    Jan 12, 2018
    Using words like "should" stand at attention and "may" result in discipline leaves it open to interpretation imo.

    Which is why the NFL and the Dolphins had to make new rules.
     
  11. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,357
    20,976
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    lol...Yeah, after this last Presidential election I wouldn't trust polls either.
     
    xphinfanx and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  12. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,357
    20,976
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Huh? No, it doesn't.

    The league made a demand. Players should be on the sideline and standing during the anthem. There is no interpretation other than that.

    If they aren't the team or league is well within it's rights to fine, suspend, etc. The "may" is allowing a leeway for warnings, etc. before fines/suspensions are handed down.
     
  13. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    This is such a sad misreading of the issue that I'm legitimately shocked that someone typed it. NFL players, who are primarily black men, understand the plight of other men who look like that but don't have the resources or platforms to show others how badly they've been treated. The players also recognize that no amount of money or publicity can protect them from that brutality. An NBA player in Milwaukee can tell you how bad it can get:

    https://deadspin.com/milwaukees-mayor-and-cops-are-already-apologetic-about-1826227603

    https://deadspin.com/milwaukee-police-release-video-of-bucks-sterling-brown-1826275081

    https://deadspin.com/new-sterling-brown-arrest-videos-show-police-standing-o-1826536762

    https://deadspin.com/lawsuit-milwaukee-officer-at-sterling-brown-arrest-jok-1826956001

    It's a shame that you think someone has to be personally affected by something to advocate on behalf of others. People who purchase breast cancer awareness paraphernalia don't have to be affected by the disease. The fact that you don't even accept that some people's right to life, liberty, and free movement have been unfairly trampled on is also crazy to me. How many police being called on non-threatening black people will get you to reconsider? How about a police officer anally probing a law-abiding black man?

    https://www.theroot.com/stop-fingering-me-though-bruh-cop-sued-for-turning-p-1827726932

    How about getting the police called on you because apparently certain folk look alike?

    https://www.theroot.com/new-jersey-wawa-mistakes-black-woman-for-shoplifter-bec-1827747117

    I mean, how many articles will I need to post before you accept a trend? Is it all of em? I'll post all of em if you want me to.
     
    Fin D, smahtaz, Carmen Cygni and 3 others like this.
  14. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Are you implying that no
    NFL revenue is at an all-time high this year. How do you measure this lost revenue? Is it lost like that Papa John's lost revenue that he lied about?
     
    Fin D likes this.
  15. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,149
    9,868
    113
    Dec 9, 2012
    Damn. I could have been using that breast cancer analogy for awhile. That's going in the quiver.
     
    Fin D and CaribPhin like this.
  16. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I boycotted last season because of the protests. The NFL did the players dirty. But... look at this loaded-*** question that Rasmussen asked:

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub..._2016/questions_nfl_protests_october_2_3_2016

    You were had my man. Besides, that poll measures relative likelihood, not resolute decisions. Do you think they asked people like these two luminary NFL fans?

    https://deadspin.com/the-politico-goes-on-a-cletus-safari-finds-two-angry-n-1820254886

     
    Fin D likes this.
  17. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,323
    4,012
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    It was Kap and how is it out of context WHEN THOSE ARE HIS EXACT WORDS. Right after he did it. In the locker room. Then he back peddled once he realized he had farted in church he didn't want to claim that it smelled just that it had made a sound. So to speak.
     
  18. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,357
    20,976
    113
    Sep 4, 2014

    This group think is a bigger threat to America than anything else.

    For every case you've presented, or could present, I could show you an equal case done to a non-black person. The issue isn't race. maybe 50 years ago it was, but not today. Today it's culture. Cop culture is getting bad. American culture is swirling down the drain. People have no common sense. And instead of being an individual, people are grouping themselves and labeling themselves and then whine when they are grouped and labeled. lol...pathetic.
     
  19. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

    7,191
    3,940
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Thomasville, GA
    I am just a nobody. A few friends know me, and that is it. But, I served. My father served. My uncles served. My grandfather on one side served, the other missed both because of his age. As far as I can tell, my family did not miss a war this country has fought. (Big 'effin' whoop dedoo, some one will write, say, or think. )

    But consider this! If not for many, many more people who chose, or were called to place themselves "Between their loved home and the war's desolation!" it would not have taken much to render this band of keyboard bangers into slaves, prisoners to some other political system, or occupants of unmarked and/or unknown graves. Go back, and actually read history. World Wars I and II were much more closely run things than many of us here know about - unless you read deeply into history. The wrong decision at Midway, or at Omaha Beach could have changed everything.

    Think about how Hirohito's Japan ravaged China. How Hitler's lunacy devastated Europe, and massacred the Jews. Remember also the 'Indian Wars' in this country's history! Consider our own Civil War - and the effect of it's waging on this country. Remember the pogroms in Russia, the sweeping massacres in Mao's China, and even in China in their kingdom periods. Remember the troops beheaded by the Imperial Japanese Army in the Philippines, and in other incidents in WWII. Remember the Cuban Missile crisis, and how close a thing that was. Human history is flush with accounts of humanity's capacity for atrocity, idiocy, stupidity, and hatred.

    Some claim that the kneeling was a protest against what takes place here. I think it was attention garnering of the lowest order. Those who kneel because of racial discrimination or worse, would never have been allowed to even exist in some countries with which this country as been engaged in prolonged years of warfare to protect the rights of people. Hell's Jinglin' bells, even in THIS country, within my lifetime, some of those protesting now would have been lynched because they dared to think for themselves, to act for themselves, and some of them did die for the cause of Civil Rights. Did they think they were drawing attention to something new, or were they just drawing attention to themselves. Compare with those who demonstrated, marched, sat-in, and prayed in the '50's and '60's they accomplished only garnering attention. What they did in no way compares with What Dr. King, Ralph Abernathy, Hosea Williams, Barbara Jordan, and many,many others world wide did in the 1960's.
    Is everything perfect. Of course not! This world is still inhabited by human beings as the only sentient race of which we know. It will never be perfect.

    The only thing they did is insult the country by kneeling. That flag they disregarded stands for the freedom they, and all of us have, to work for the betterment of everyone of us. Kneeling was a sign of dishonor when called to stand for the Anthem of the nation which has changed so much in the past 50 years for the better. In other countries, some of which I have been in, they would be kneeling for an entirely different reason - up to and including being punished for disagreeing with the ruling authorities edicts. In some parts of this country, for doing something akin to that around the time I was born would have got them horsewhipped, or worse. I have seen some of the historical pictures. Have you? I have also seen the picture of a U.S. soldier in the process of being beheaded by a Japanese officer. I have seen the picture of the scratch marks on the walls inside the gas chambers in Germany. I have seen the picture of U.S. Marines partially buried on a beach in the Pacific.

    Two young men kneeling during the National Anthem of the nation which has striven to correct itself and prevent such atrocities elsewhere while the two in question are preparing to play a children's game for ludicrous amounts of money impresses me not at all.
     
    Finatik and danmarino like this.
  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    And I 100% disagree.
    I love this country too much to agree with you
     
    Fin D likes this.
  21. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,357
    20,976
    113
    Sep 4, 2014

    You disagree with all of his post? How?
     
  22. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    First of all, America previously held Japanese-Americans in cages and are still putting Latinx people in cages at the border so let's not just say "non-black". If you're sitting there telling me that you think white people and black people in America are policed the same way, I'm actually shocked. Where are the Rodney King's, Tamir Rice's (12 years old!), MLK Jr's., Malcolm X's, John Crawford III's, Brennan Walker's, of the white community? You know what, I WANT you to post those articles. I am willing to sit down and absorb all that information if you can provide it and I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong. We both know they don't exist. In the meantime, please tell me how the below stories are okay.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-teenager-shot-at-after-asking-for-directions
    https://www.theroot.com/attorney-video-shows-john-crawford-iii-being-shot-on-1790876857
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...al-shifting-stories-officers-who-shot-n751401

    What event occurred 50 years ago to end the previous 400 years of racism? No generation seems to believe racism was a problem then until 50 years later. 50 years ago was when it became illegal to deny service to someone on the basis of their race. That didn't end racism. That just ended explicit institutionalized discrimination.

    ETA: Lmaoooo, your president is out here calling his OWN country foolish and apologizing standing next to a former KGB operative turned oligarch but people having a different opinion is the biggest threat to America? Have conservatives all individually come up with the same logic on everything or is that not group-think? The left couldn't rally behind one candidate in the last election because of ideological differences while the right abandoned guys like Mitt Romney, Marco Rubio, and John Kasich who weren't ideologically pure. The Tea Party is group think. Fox News anchors force group think all the time. Not one show has a different opinion on any issue.

    All I'm saying is be fair. Stop pretending like you and your ideology are above critical evaluation. We watched the American right, starting right around 2008 (hmmm), coalesce into an amorphous blob of ideological purity. RINO's got forced out of the party for not submitting to group think.

    Just. Be. Fair.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2018
    Fin D likes this.
  23. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Why is he pretending like we hate troops or something? I love the troops (human beings) so much that I want them all to go home and never have to be shot at again. I love the troops so much that I think they should be able to go to college and receive health care for free without even having to get psychologically traumatized.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  24. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

    7,191
    3,940
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Thomasville, GA
    So this country has not changed within the past 50 years.. and is still not changing now. Sorry, I have lived to much of not to have seen it. And I by no means feel that this country is perfect. No country can be. There are too many human beings involved for that to ever happen.
     
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    So basically I could be grateful that I am not being lynched
     
    Fin D likes this.
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    I did not go line by line.
    I technically agree that his family served
     
    Fin D likes this.
  27. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,357
    20,976
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    First, no one is being kept in cages. And I never said that police brutality is OK. Don't lie. I clearly wrote that cop culture is bad.

    However,

    Tamir Rice- https://www.thedailybeast.com/unarm...his-moms-minivan-out-of-garage-lawsuit-claims

    Video from a police officer’s body camera shows the father, Christopher Few, had his hands raised inside his vehicle while the two deputies collectively fired 18 shots. At least four of those bullets tore into Jeremy (6 years old!), who died within minutes.

    https://nypost.com/2017/03/25/cop-convicted-of-manslaughter-in-shooting-of-6-year-old-autistic-boy/

    http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/sd-me-torrey-shooting-20170506-story.html

    Rodney King- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas

    https://www.local10.com/video/surve...-officers-beating-suspect-in-hallandale-beach

    More:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...olice-arizona-philip-brailsford-daniel-shaver

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...police-killing-of-unarmed-man-in-arizona.html

    In 2017 147 unarmed people were killed by police. Around 50% were white. The other 50% accounted for all other races combined.

    Only 400 years of racism? Racism has been around a lot longer than that. And racism will never end. But the Western World has been the leading force in trying to end racism. White people aren't the first race to invent slavery, but they were the first race to outlaw it.


    So you keep on with your hate mongering and hyperbole. Whatever you need to do in order to keep being offended.
     
    Fin-O likes this.
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    I disagree with the idea that racism is much older than 400 years.
    People tend to get culture confused with race.
    People did not like people of different cultures in the past, however the idea that there was a race that binds them is relatively new.

    I do think that race could get stamped out in time because it is a terrible way to classify people.

    Culture and class are actually very good.

    For instance, other than skin color and the socialital ramifications of having that skin color a chances are a black software developer from San Francisco had very little in common with a black Walmart cashier from Little Rock.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  29. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    I see this thread going downhill, but 2 cents for now.

    Right now for many many many people this nation is going backwards. Right now I am not proud of my flag or nation. That said, I am ****ing proud as hell of my brother kicking butt after joining the Navy, and I support him and his mates and their general mission of keeping America safe. How I view the anthem, flag, nation, etc has 0 bearing on how I view the military.

    These are not mutually exclusive ideas. To repeat, anyone who conflates the protest with the military is making a CHOICE to intentionally misrepresent the whole thing, and then again making another choice to become offended about it.

    CKap literally developed and modified his protest after consulting with a Green Beret. He can express dissatisfaction with his country and the flag it represents without it being an affront to the military. I get the military hold the flag in high regard ... because it's a symbol of a nation they are defending. A nation with problems that are magnified for certain people and largely dismissed by others. A nation where some folks with a bigger voice are attempting to spotlight this fact, but are getting shouted down instead.

    It's odd to me how some people are SO dismissive of problems when they are brought forth.
     
    Fin D, Puka-head and Carmen Cygni like this.
  30. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

    7,191
    3,940
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Thomasville, GA
    If that is all my thoughts provoked in you, I am sorry. Of course, I am not getting shot at, nor tramping through swamps or desert or afloat on dangerous waters either.

    And, I do not consider what I wrote making an assertion of perfection, nor a completion of any particular avenue of improvement. And, not all of the changes have been for the better - but that is usually more a byproduct of the also more than necessary capacity of some human beings to do something entirely wrong and others to exhibit a remarkable capacity of stupidity.

    But, by and large, most of the pressumptions which were wrong when I was growing up have changed - and a greater percentage of them for the better than for the worse. There is little to no possibility of perfection this side of heaven, nor of complete depravity this side of hell. But, from my very nearly 70 years of watching - though there will always be problems, things have incrementally improved, and in some things, dramatically.

    But, this world is still inhabited with knotheads, ignoramuses, gloryhounds, and powerseekers of all ilks - and some of them can make the most abhorrent decisions possible, and effect millions, it not billions. Perfect? No. Better - I would argue that we are better off than 50 years ago. I do not wake up at night with the very real fear of nuclear war. Granted, when I was 19 I was on the sharp end of the stick, but things have improved in that light at this time. But, don't fret. Some idiot could do something incredibly stupid and start something at any time. And we still haven't learned THE BOSS's teachings worth a flip - the part about loving our neighbors as ourselves comes readily to mind.
     
    danmarino and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  31. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    The racial injustice hyperbole is one of the most overblown topics in the history of this country.

    Poor people struggle with crime/police/and the ability to make it out of the hood. Not “black people”.

    33 white unarmed people killed by police in 3017, 12 black.

    Yea, I know....more whites people than black. However take that % of people that commit crimes..and you have a pretty damn even playing field.

    But yea. Idc about someone standing or kneeling. Irrelevant to my life.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  32. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,357
    20,976
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Not that easy.

    Even though "race" may not have been as clearly defined 2,000-3,000 ago as it is today, there was racism. Ancient Greece and Rome fought wars against the "lesser people" of Africa, for example. Granted, they didn't base their beliefs of them being "lesser" solely on skin color, but it played a part.

    Although, I guess there is a case that "racism" is not really that old all. Slavery does not equal racism. Even the word itself, which was derived from the word "Slav", or Slavic people, had nothing to do with race. Even when Europeans were buying slaves from Africa and transporting them to the New World, which means anywhere from Argentina to the Caribbean to Canada, it wasn't about race. It was about production and free labor. It literally had nothing to do with race or skin color. For the first 100 years of North American colonization the overwhelming majority of slaves were white. The colonies started as private enterprises. people were creating businesses. There was no thought of a new country. The Spanish, who conquered Mexico and Peru in the 1500's, found gold and silver. Settlers in places like the colonies made money through agriculture. Their main goal was to obtain a labor force that could produce the large amounts of tobacco, sugar, and other crops that would be sold back to England. From 1600 to about 1700, the primary source of agricultural labor in North America came from white slaves. If the "Slavs" or Eastern Europeans had been closer to the New World they would have mostly likely been America's slaves.
     
    Fin-O and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    My friend, the average prison cell is about the size of the smallest bathroom in your house- and it sleeps up to 4 inmates. And like your bathroom, there's a toilet and a small sink in there...only you get to use it with three other grown men watching. In some parts of prisons and detention centers, that's where you remain for 23+ hours a day....smelling other men's **** and wishing someone gave a damn.

    We absolutely do keep people in cages and after witnessing it firsthand, I personally say it's inhumane.

    Here's the thing though- prisons get about $18-25k in federal funding per inmate. You tell me how you house them, feed them, cloth them and care for their health on $18,000. If you tried one of the meals they serve in most prisons, you'd say that it's not even food...and by definition you'd be correct. Some of the ground chicken we used were labeled "Not Fit for Human Consumption" right on the box. And it was a funny off-pink color....that's from combining undesirable body parts combined with bone and feathers. But it's dirt cheap so that's what they eat about 12 meals a week (ironically, the grind is meant to feed chickens and cows).

    The worst part of it all is that about 20% of our nation's prison population at any given time is innocent by legal standards....meaning they have not been tried in court and found guilty. Yet the treatment and conditions in many county jails is even worse than the state prison systems. You could sit there for 6 months or better waiting to prove your innocence while you're whole life crumbles to pieces around you.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Spartans thought all other Greeks were lesser than them. This is an example of culture and not this concept of race.

    A person from Naples did not think of themselves as the same as a Germanic barbarian.
    A citizen of Rome did not think of themselves as kin with a Celt.

    People who were think of as the same race today would not even consider themselves the same at all even as far as the 1700s.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  35. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii

    My reduced interest in the NFL has nothing to do with the players kneeling during the National Anthem. My interest has declined based on all the rules changes over the last decade and the fact the Dolphins have been so mediocre for the last 20 years.

    This coming season will be the first time since 1966, my wife and I will be out of the country during the football season. I used to ensure I could watch the Dolphin game everytime they played. Instead this year my wife and I will be in New Zealand and Australia for five weeks during the season. I just can’t get excited about a team that will be fortunate to finish the season 8-8 and likely win no more than 6 games.

    As far as the rest of the NFL is concerned, I haven’t watched the regular season games of the other teams in the NFL for over a decade. I just have no interest in watching games where I have no interest in the teams playing. I would much rather spend the time on the golf course and at least
    at the golf course, no one expects me to stand for the National Anthem prior to teeing off on the first hole.
     
  36. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,422
    5,732
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    Woof Woof.

    [​IMG]
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  37. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,630
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    That's a very trenchant critique of capitalism, but I think the economic forces that encouraged the creation of racial hierarchies to maintain chattel slavery are somewhat different than the forces driving NFL policy, comrade.

    I don't think the NFL isn't really interested in using race, racism, or any of the attendant issues to their financial benefit as they are simply being buffeted by the effects of the forces who do. You certainly can't feel sorry for them, all things considered, but at a certain point it's unavoidable that the league is just too dumb to thread what really isn't even a proverbial needle and is going to spend years running afoul of all parties.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  38. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Listen, if you think it's a good idea to bring up crime statistics in a discussion about innocent people being brutalized, then I don't know what to tell you. It's sort of telling that that's where you went with this. I have talked about more than being killed. I spoke about the police being called for people doing literally nothing.

    Are you personally aware of redlining? Redlining was a practice in which black Americans were forced to live in certain communities, far away from the middle and upper class white Americans. They were forced there by zoning laws and racist bank policies. Do you think it's a coincidence that once segregation ended, the public school system switched to location-based schooling? No need to bus people in if they went to school in their neighborhood. Those schools were and still are chronically underfunded, while successive governments have been fine with tying school funding to performance. I couldn't imagine, then, how you could end up with a class of under-educated people who live in poor conditions. Then you ignore the drug epidemic in those communities and send the police in there with force after the media has already portrayed them as inherently bad people. The same police forces that were used no more than 40 years ago as state sanctioned race enforcers (think of who sicced dogs on people, turned on the water cannons, arrested at the fountains, sent people to the back of the bus). Consider also how policing is generational and you can imagine how those ideas propagated to police of today.

    I'm not saying the black community is perfect. All I'm saying is that Americans have never truly reckoned with what the country did and is still doing. Even when someone makes an attempt to correct some of these things, Americans go crazy. It was government policy for 400+ years that blacks were not human, then 3/5ths of a second class citizen and now just second class citizens. As soon as someone came up with affirmative action, the oppression was somehow on the other foot.

    Again, I just want people to be fair. What do you even think my endgame is? To crush white society or something? I just want my fellow black people to have a real chance without the fear of the state and private actors with malicious intent. It's not politically viable at this point to talk about the justice I would like to see, because I think America owed those former slaves something, but I can't believe asking for black people to not be disproportionately policed is seen as some lie.

    What do you think I want and believe here? What do you think my endgame is man? We talk basketball all the time. I'm a normal human being. We usually get along. Why do you seem to think that I have some sinister motive? Why is it at every step, this discussion is met with opposition rather than understanding? At the end of the day, I know what's it's like to have been followed around a mall at the age of 12 because I'm apparently genetically predisposed to theft. I'm sick of it and I'm sick of seeing it happen to people like me everyday. We're not even throwing your unseasoned chicken off a boat. It's just some guys kneeling down against an existential threat.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2018
    Fin D, Puka-head, Fin-O and 1 other person like this.
  39. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Indentured servants were NOT slaves. There were usually two classes of indentured servants: those who owed a debt and acquiesced to service to pay it off, and those who entered into the contract in order to get free passage to the west. Some persons were ordered into indentured servitude by debtor court. Some children were forced into it to pay familial debts. It wasn't great, sure. But it wasn't slavery. At least indentured servants were always considered fellow humans. Those persons were compensated and freed after the contract was up. Chattel slavery was wholly different and any objective historian would immediately shut that comparison down. People love to bring up the Irish, but they weren't slaves. Here's the lyin' NY Times to corroborate:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/us/irish-slaves-myth.html

    Please stop it. Uhhhh....football!
     
    Fin D and texanphinatic like this.
  40. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    The NFL could just not play the anthem at games or play it while the players are in the back. There's literally no reason this issue has to exist other than stupidity and the NFL owners' desires to keep their plantations (prison if you're a Texan) in line.
     
    Fin D and texanphinatic like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page