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2019

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by tirty8, Aug 17, 2018.

  1. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Just out of curiosity, what excuses are you planning on using for keeping Gase around in 2019?

    Just asking for a friend.
     
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  2. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    None. I think, unless there is some crazy turn around, he'll be done. Little has changed, other than personnel. LTunsil is still god awful, Tannehill is still average, the Oline is still subpar.

    Unless there are major turnarounds....Gase must Go.
     
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  3. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    Take it easy guys. So we're already eliminated from the preseason playoffs. There's always the regular season though...
     
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  4. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Tell your friend I would have never hired his fantasy football mentality, offensive-only driven mindset in the first place.
     
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  5. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    If you think that I am talking about "just the preseason," you are missing the writing on the wall.

    Gase loves and continues to run ineffective screen passes. Additionally, we have not been able to stop the run since Gase took over. Last night was not an isolated incident. Last night was the continuation of a trend.
     
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  6. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    You think we took Gesicki to run more screen passes?
     
  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing- we beat the brakes off the Panthers last night on defense EXCEPT FOR one running play where we made contact behind the LOS and didn't wrap up. That long TD run should have been a 2 yard loss, and those mistakes are barely tolerable in pre-season. We had the right play called though, the right protection and the right pursuit....they just didn't execute. That's not a coaching thing.

    On offense, we moved the ball fairly well with our 1st string offense. I have my fingers crossed that Gase was playing ultra-conservative on purpose, which ties into previous conversations about RT asking him to push the ball downfield more often. We can't see what we saw last night when things count, and I'll certainly be on the "fire Gase" bandwagon if we do.

    It is preseason though and I get that the main goal is to protect your quarterback that just spent two seasons on IR. The offensive line was not impressive last night on run downs- the larger gains we did get were from cut-backs since there was no hole to be found. On passing downs though, the pocket looked fairly clean for most of the night. I'm hoping the play calling centered around keeping the QB clean without your top two receivers on the field. If so, mission accomplished...even though it was boring, safe football that won't win ballgames.

    That's why I'm officially on the fence- I am certainly skeptical of Gase being in over his head. I think he's a solid head coach but I don't think he should be calling the plays every down...we've just seen way too much "safe play" when it wasn't necessary. For now, I think we need to put the pitchforks away and wait to see the next three weeks unfold. There definitely not be any more "free passes" though on excuses. Either this is our year or we need to start looking for a new leader.
     
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  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If Gase flops this year it'll definitely be a feather in your cap because the general view last year was that losing Tannehill was the bigger problem.

    More revealing would be how well people do in evaluating new HC's in general. Would be interesting to get people's takes (not just yours) on which of the relatively new hires in the NFL (last 2 years) will succeed and which will flop. I'll just list the names in case anyone wants to take up the challenge of making predictions:

    Steve Wilks, Arizona (hired 2018)
    Sean McDermott, Buffalo (hired 2017.. 9-7 record in 2017)
    Matt Nagy, Chicago (hired 2018)
    Vance Joseph, Denver (hired 2017.. 5-11 record in 2017)
    Matt Patricia, Detroit (hired 2018)
    Anthony Lynn, LA Chargers (hired 2017.. 9-7 record in 2017)
    Sean McVay, LA Rams (hired 2017.. 11-5 record in 2017)
    Patt Shurmur, NY Giants (hired 2018)
    Jon Gruden, Oakland (hired 2018.. 95-81 in career and of course 1 SB win)
    Kyle Shanahan, 49ers (hired 2017.. 6-10 record in 2017)
    Mike Vrabel, Titans (hired 2018)

    11 new HC's in last 2 years.. lots of turnover eh lol.
     
  9. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    My worry is that this offense will have a really difficult time getting 1st downs if you have even one offensive penalty or a few dropped passes. That dink and dunk works well as long as you keep throwing completions.. but what if it's 2nd and long or 3rd and long? No evidence they can stretch the field, and it's not because of lack of personnel.
     
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Twice on 2nd and long last night with the 1st team offense we ran up the middle for no gain. To me, that's not a player execution thing....that's a coach giving up and keeping it safe for the punt team. ON FREAKING 2ND DOWN! I am hoping that he's bringing RT back with baby steps and keeping him safe, but I'm quickly tiring of this "high efficiency offense" that can't score any points.
     
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  11. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    I'm still hopeful for a 10-6 season but just to go along with the thread I'll say Gase needs to get fired if he doesn't deliver this year. If he has an 8-8 or worse season I really dont see how his tenure is any different than Philbin or the dozen other coaches we've had over the last 20 years.

    It's weird when guy gets hired for his offense when his offense was led by Peyton freaking Manning, yeah I'm sure Gase had a huge impact on 37 year old Manning. Without a HOF GOAT candidate QB he has lead the Bear & Dolphin offense to less than stellar seasons.
     
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  12. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    We should definitely fire any HC who doesn't win the Super Bowl every single year. I mean, that's essentially what every successful team does so we should follow suit. It's a very simple strategy and it's exactly why Belichick, Tomlin, Reid, McCarthy and Carroll are all sitting at home right now without a job...because they're losers, just like Gase.
     
  13. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    :sigh:
     
  14. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You feeling OK today? lol...

    Anyway.. no one knows what the optimal strategy is for hiring and firing HC's in the NFL. I mean, maybe the Steelers are the one exception since they've had only 3 HC's since 1969: Noll, Cowher and Tomlin, and all of them won a SB!

    But everyone else basically keeps trying until they hit on someone (or never do). At least we had Shula. Many teams can't say they ever found a great HC.

    btw.. NE before Belichick looks pretty similar to us in many ways. Not a very well run organization and since they became part of the NFL in 1971 they fired 9 different HC's that coached at least one season until finding Belichick:
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/index.htm

    That's 3.22 years on average before firing a HC. Dolphins since Shula have had 7 different HC's that coached at least a year, or 3.29 years before firing a HC on average (if you include 2018):
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/index.htm

    So it's not like NE had some magical formula that led them to Belichick. Personally, I think it's so difficult to predict who will succeed that it's for the most part a crap shoot. Just keep crap shooting until you finally find a keeper!
     
  15. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Dude...
     
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  16. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Like what is you talking about?!?!

    If you think that Tomlin, Reid, McCarthy and Carroll are in the same category as Gase, your brain is broken.

    Those guys do not run screen passes every play.
     
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  17. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I hope not, but unfortunately, seeing is believing.
     
  18. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    It boggles the mind how people can criticize the head coach for his gameplan when it's been made very clear for days, months, years, now that there is no game plan for these games. Like literally NO FLIPPIN GAME PLAN!!!

    For you to be upset with how bad it was. mmmmkaaayyy????

    Especially these first two games which are basically full contact scrimmages for coaches players and refs. They don't get to hit in practice much anymore.

    This ain't your granpappies preseason chillins.
     
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  19. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Sarcasm. Look it up. Google that **** young Paduan. The sarcasm is strong in the Fame.
     
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  20. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    These guys need to re-watch 2009 week 2 vs INDY to understand that.
     
  21. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    All of those coaches have been to SB, and all but Reid have won a SB. Gase has been to the playoff once, was promptly bounced, and last year won all of 6 games. He's lost more games as Miami's coach than he's won. He's more analogous to Philbin, Sparano, and Wannstedt than he is to Belichick, Tomlin, and Reid.
     
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  22. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    OMG, is you serious?

    Do you know what "no flippin game plan" entails? That means that we are not going to do things like going out there and establishing a ground game, work to mitigate Cam Newton's duel threat, etc. Not having a game plan essentially means that we are not looking at this game like we would a full game.

    It is a gloried practice.

    That being said, you can garner a ton of information from a practice. For instance, what do you suppose a team might want to practice in a preseason game? I dunno, perhaps the the type of plays that want to run in a regular season game. On third down, you still wanna run the type of plays that you would run on third down. You are not going roll on on 2nd and 10 in your goal line offense to practice short yardage situations.

    Just look at the play calling. Tons of redonkulously short slants and WR screens. I seriously don't think I saw the ball travel 10 yards in the air until Petty walked on the field.

    Now lemme ask you something. Does a ton of WR screens remind you of anything? I sure do remember a certain coach named Gase who obsessed over these plays last year.

    Dawg, the writing is on the wall here. This is the type of offense that he is trying to run.
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Back in 2016, about the time we went on that big win streak, Gase said at a press conference that RT pulled him aside in the 2nd quarter and told him that they weren't being aggressive enough. Gase said that he realized his mistake and turned up the heat.

    In 2017, there's not too much to say about Cutler and Gase- they didn't seem to communicate on the field at all. And since both Cutler and Gase loved conservative play, it was the Drake and Landry show every Sunday. Like I've said countless times though, I give Gase a pass there because it was Jay freaking Cutler or Matt Moore fresh off concussion protocol (where he's historically performed horrible- as he did last year).

    Now in 2018, we're still seeing that ultra-conservative play once again. I realize it's pre-season and I realize our offense isn't fully good to go, but it still worries me when we make almost zero effort to be competitive. Tannehill shouldn't have to tell his coach to run something other than a base run play or a screen- it just doesn't jibe with the "offensive guru mentality" we've heard about for the past three years. We are loaded with offensive weapons, we have our QB, and we just delivered a half that Matt Moore could have shined in with a concussion. Heck, most high school quarterbacks could have ran that offense.

    I still think Gase is a solid head coach- I just don't think he should be calling the plays full time if this trend continues in the first team offense.
     
  24. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

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    If we win a similar amount of games this season like we did last season, then I can still see Gase being our head coach next season if the front office and ownership are all committed to the transition that this team is going through. They are starting to shape this roster into Gase's team rather than Gase coaching what was left of Joe Philbin's team, and that transition takes time and we need to be patient. What we also need to be aware of here is that Ryan Tannehill

    The problem Adam Gase faces is that he overachieved in his first season when we finished with a 10-6 record and made the play offs. Suddenly our expectations went from "here we go again" (i.e. seven straight seasons with 6-8 wins) to maybe we can become a perennial play off team and potentially contender. After a six win season we are now almost resigning ourselves to another bad season. Maybe we will struggle, then again maybe we might surprise people like we did in 2016 and have a good season. Either way, this team is going through a transition and we need to be patient.

    What we need to see this season is progression from our young players that will be part of the next five or more seasons. If they show progress, Gase should remain in a job for 2019 even if we only win half a dozen games again. Swapping and changing head coaches is no good for anyone and we should back Gase to lead this team going forwards. A change could be counterproductive because the next guy might want to bring in his own guys, and his own schemes might require different skill sets than what some of our current players have. Granted a change could see us turn around but with the team in transition we are better off sticking with Gase than showing him the door. Let's have some stability for once.

    For me, there are only two reasons to fire Gase: one, we struggle mightily to a few wins; two, we don't see progression from our young players and our veterans end up leading us to the wins.
     
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  25. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I’m confident in Gase, but I’m very skeptical at the same time.

    There is a list of brilliant coordinators who forever reason didn’t coach the whole team effectively.

    If we get a 5-6 win team this year, he will start to lean to that category for me personally.

    I can tell you now, I’m not a fan of Matt Burke nor have I ever been. He can happily prove me wrong but I just don’t like his philosophy at all to this point.
     
  26. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Agree totally on Burke. Hes a small college position coach, not an NFL coordinator.
     
  27. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    The fact Gase led the Fins to the playoffs in 2016 is totally irrelevant in 2018. Tony Sprano led the team to the playoffs in 2008 and we all know how his coaching career turned out in Miami after that.

    Gase says he now has the team and the coaching staff that he wants. He has the QB that he wants and he got rid of the so called bad characters on the team. So in year three, it is entirely up to him and his coaching staff to put a winning team on the field. Nothing less than a playoff team should be acceptable to any real Dolphin fan this season.

    If the Dolphins don’t make the playoffs this year, it will be time to draft a new QB in the first round of the 2019 draft and send Tannebaum, Gase and the rest of the coaching staff down the highway. It is year three for Gase and year seven for Tannehill. So the time has come to stop making excuses for Gase and Tannehill. They either deliver this season or else a new regime should be hired to turn around this football team.
     
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  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I agree here. In 2016, we had a fairly soft schedule and we squeaked by some good and some really bad teams. It's not like we were blowing out the teams we were supposed to beat, and I felt 10-6 was a pretty good indication of who we were (with a fairly soft schedule). Because when you look back, we blew multiple ways to beat Seattle in that 12-10 loss. Parker dropped the game tying pass with zero on the clock in week 2 (which was RT's best game EVER). Then we lose to the Bengals and Titans when neither team had any offense to speak of...we just happened to have zero offensive line.

    My point is, if everything fell our way and we started a little faster in 2016, we were a 13 win team with Tannehill taking us deep into the playoffs. If everything went south, there were eight games decided by a TD or less we could have dropped. We just as easily could have been 2-14 on the year because we only whooped two teams. So I think talent-wise we're a 9-10 win ball club over the past 3 seasons (including this year). We proved that in the 4th quarters where games are actually won or lost, and we saw what the difference is between RT and an average veteran.

    What does that mean for 2018? I'd set the bar at 9 or 10 since we're facing another easy schedule. We have our 1 PM home games, we're not visiting foreign countries and the majority of our opponents are average teams. I would set the bar at 8.5 wins- less than that we need to start overhauling...possibly starting from the very top. Hit the over and we're headed in the right direction.

    The one thing I really appreciate about this season is that we are out of excuses on offense- we have solid talent up and down the roster. If the line is as strong as advertised, then we should be dominant on the ground and in the air....there's no reason for us not to be unless Tannehill has a bad year or Gase gets too conservative.

    So that's my number to decide Gase's future- 8.5. We should be angry with an 8-8 team, and we should run the guy out of town with a 6-10 repeat. But at the same time, 9+ wins means that 2016 wasn't a fluke and we might be onto something here. But make no mistake, I don't think we have any do-over seasons left to give. If RT goes down, then Osweiller, Fales or somebody needs to deliver to prove that Jay Cutler was an isolated incident outside the team's control. That's how trends work though....they can go either way.
     
  29. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

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    Soft schedule or not, I don't remember reading analysts/writers tipping us to be a play off team in 2016. I could be wrong but most of those play off predictions had us missing out. Same goes for last season and this. More people see us winning 6-8 games than 10 or more.

    I'd still say we overachieved in year one because we'd been mediocre for years and while a new head coach can always make an impact (it did with us and the Giants), I still didn't think we'd make the play offs even with that soft schedule.

    Plus the whole soft and hard schedule thing at times can be overstated because you've still got to go out there and get the job done.
     
  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree with you....which is why I pay very little attention to national sports writers. They say we are one of the worst teams in the league this year, just like they did in 2016.

    Well, that's why I explained that 2016 could have just as easily been a 13-3 year with about a half dozen plays shaking out differently. And if you flipped ten plays the other way, we could have been 2-14. I wasn't trying to imply that the other teams would just give us wins this season; they certainly have to be earned every time.

    Again, I was just giving my expectations of the season and how I'll measure Gase's success. That number for me is the over/under on 8.5 wins...it could be completely different for you or anyone else. I just have a feeling that Gase is in trouble without a winning season.
     
  31. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Vegas expected 7 wins from us in 2016:
    http://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nfl-team/?Team=Miami+Dolphins&sa=nfl#win

    I calculated this before, but the standard deviation for the difference between Vegas win total predictions and actual wins is just about 2 wins. We won 10 games, so 3 above expected. That's well above expected.

    I do remember that you thought we'd win a lot that year, but your view wasn't representative of most non-Dolphin fans.
     
  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That 2016 season just lined up nicely with firing two linemen at the weakest part of our schedule- it's certainly not normal to start 1-4 and then rattle off 9 of 11 in wins. The key to that whole thing though was the line solidifying and Tannehill catching fire.

    I personally don't see a whole lot different from now and then- we have some new faces but it's always been about RT and the line. I'd argue that we've upgraded at WR, TE, RB, S, DE and CB (mainly because Howard's experienced/healthy) while we got worse at DL. LB is up in the air due to rookies, so we'll probably get gashed in the run- but is that any different from the past two seasons? I think we're breaking even there. So there's not too many aspects where you can say we're worse off, but several where we're clearly better.

    I just think you have to set the standard from where RT left off, and that's winning 7 of 8 ballgames before getting hurt. You also have to remember that Drake is a much more active blocker than Ajayi was in 2016 and with the improved line, I don't see how you set expectations below 9 games.

    I know that doesn't agree with Vegas BUT they have to take 2017 into consideration where I don't. Cutler/Landry just isn't the same team as RT/everyone else. And I say it that way because of Landry's ridiculous amount of targets in 2017- that's just not what we're going to see this season. Plain & simple, Cutler couldn't run the offense with an okay line....Tannehill can.
     
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  33. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    From what I've seen so far in preseason, I agree with the national writers...I think the Dolphins are a bottom five team. Derrick Henry is going to have a huge day week 1. I think our o/u is 4.5.

    Of course, they could surprise me. I am Dooley basing this on sorry defense so far and inability of the offense to score TDs.
     
  34. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    Does it seem to be that the best head coaches are the ones that came along with GM (whether it's them or not). They aren't forced to coach the previous HC's leftovers (Tannehill?). If Gase doesn't work out then the entire management that went through the process of selecting him and his players needs to go and all the new people have to be aligned together.
     
  35. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    My cautious take on Gase is that he's definitely intelligent and loves and knows football, but he's a theory/concept guy. It means that whether or not something is conventional or unconventional he'll be willing to do something, and keep at it, if it makes sense to him. He'll likely be open to change, and not afraid of making massive wholesale changes, but he needs to know for certain that whatever it is can't work. This can present an issue. If Gase is convinced a concept is solid, he won't feel it is invalidated even if it hasn't been working if the reason for failure is poor implementation. For example, we've heard, several times, that players have not been in the playbook, have missed routes, or screwed up the play somehow. That will be infuriating for any coach, but perhaps Gase especially, because it won't allow him to assess a play, or even a whole offense, in and of itself, unless he believes he's seen it done correctly and still failed.

    If this is the case, then Gase needs to be aware of a third aspect to his equation. He needs to consider not just the concept, and the execution, but also review why any given execution may fail - e.g. can the concept be coached to the players - can they retain it, is it too complex.

    In theory, any given concept or play can be executed, but there may be real-world factors that prevent certain theories from being practical.

    One general issue might be overall discipline with Miami players. He may find that he needs to be far stricter and harder than he currently is in order to establish a culture that respects the details and performs. Logically, there might not be any reason why a player wouldn't want to do things the right way, but in the real-world, players might just be lazy.

    From what I've heard in interviews etc. I get the impression he's being a little naive/soft in believing that educating players on the right way is enough for them to do it the right way. The reality is, that just because someone knows something, doesn't mean they won't do it. He needs to bridge the gap between the theory and the result and with his coaches find whatever it is that can help ensure his game plans become reality.

    Seeing if Gase can overcome this habit of indiscipline might be THE major factor in determining whether or not he can be a great head coach.
     
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  36. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    So your saying he's just a coordinator?
     
  37. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    No.... and I don't get the reference. Can you clarify?
     
  38. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry no reference, just my simple view. A coordinator manages Xs and Os, a coach manages personalities. Based on your post it seems Gase has difficulty with the latter.
     
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  39. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I do believe Gase has a hand in play scripting to some extent but that's not really the point I was making. My point was concerning how I think he processes things and why he might need to change his approach to resolving issues with discipline and detail.
     
  40. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    After seriously studying this thread I have come to the sinsere conclusion that it was a waste of my time. My god, what a horrendous load of crap!
     
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