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Thoughts on the Dolphins/Jets Game

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Sep 16, 2018.

  1. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah RT's decision making is significantly improved this year, including when to run as well as the ability to run a hurry up offense. He still needs to work on pocket presence though. He doesn't have those proverbial "eyes in the back of the head". Not sure if that's coachable.
     
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  2. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    This is exactly what raises my blood pressure. I know we are winning with RT (he's 9-1 in the last 10 games), but he stands back there looking and looking to make a play when I wish he would just throw the ball out of bounds. I respect what he is TRYING to do in making a play, but that is waiting for a disaster to happen. I wish he would just take what the defense gives him, if it's not there either scramble or get rid of the ball. Process things a little faster and live to play another day. A sack, or worse, a strip sack can lose the game for us. It could also lead to him getting injured, and we saw how well that went last year. I heard on that one bad sack he had the announcers say RT was limping off the field. I'm sure I am not the only one that said, oh ****! Here we go again on that one. RT is a smart guy, but sometimes he just takes too many unnecessary risks. Those sacks could have really hurt us (the better teams will make us pay). I know we don't know, but what would have happened if we got nothing on those plays? Whatever it would have been, it probably would have been better than a sack.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don’t remember him scrambling for any first down, I remember him running the read option and running for first downs.
     
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  4. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I agree.. though in the case of the fumble he lost he was trying to throw the ball away so at least that one I won't attack him on (you can see that around 7:05 in here)
     
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  5. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    True, my bad. When he tried to scramble, he got wrangled down from behind like a young steer. Yikes! I wish he would process things a little faster. I am sure they are working on it. Nobody wants RT to take hits and that will probably come when he shakes the rust loose.

    I guess those read options were good play calls from Gase and nice execution on the play by our guys. We sure needed them at the time. :-)
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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  6. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, but both Monday night teams are 0-1.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Right now the scrambling element to his game is not there, he’s not breaking the pocket and looking downfield to make a completion, and he’s not running for any yardage unless it’s scripted, there are no scramble drills being practiced by the receivers..
     
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  8. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Heck the whole darn team only had TWO penalties yesterday! That is amazing!
     
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  9. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I remember RT used to be able to roll out left and make a nice throw, but that was probably by design and not a true scramble. He should try and scramble more. Look at Fitzpatrick of the Bucs, some of it is probably by design and some of it is him just seeing an opportunity to run. Whatever it is, it's like a dagger to the defense when he runs for the 1st down and then slides so they can't touch him. I wonder why RT doesn't incorporate that into his game repertoire? Does Gase think he can get enough done without it and doesn't need it? Maybe it is unnecessary risk?
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I want to win playoff games, I want ryan to be the best qb he can be, until he consciously threatens a defense with his legs in a unscripted fashion, he will not become that..

    This offseason all the coaches told him that he needs to do this exact thing more, he hasn’t responded yet which is my personal disappointment with him.

    I don’t want to be too hard on him because he’s still finding his tempo after such a long layoff and lower leg injury, but if he can execute what we want in this regard, I would feel so much more confident in our teams chances to compete against better competition.
     
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  11. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    There's been 2 ties already this season as well, which is unusual this early. Those resulted in teams not coming out of a game with a win that normally would have, especially the Packers/Vikings game where one would have been 2-0 if they hadn't tied.
     
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  12. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    What point are you trying to prove? My point is, and has been that RT plays well beneath his QBR. This totally bolsters my argument. Hes not even CLOSE to Brady. I dont care what his stats are. Hes a low IQ QB.

    But maybe I'm wrong. Our defense is rated better than NEs. In two weeks, theyll go head to head. Brady will be facing a superior defense. We will see if RT is as good as Brady.
     
  13. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Really WTF!
     
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  14. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Not sure you what you dont understand. Let me explain this to you a different way--Brady will not be the reason the Pat's lose games. When teams play the Pats, they must try to slow down and neutralize Brady. Does that apply to RT?
     
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I guarantee you those ties will come into play in week 17. I absolutely hate ties....if we could have an 8 hour game 1, then surely the NFL can go another quarter, have a shootout or whatever to decide these games. Ties suck for everyone involved.
     
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  16. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    It's more than "unusual this early". It's unusual period. Since 1974 when the NFL instituted the sudden death format for OT, there have been a total of 24 tie games, and 2 of those were in the last 2 weeks!

    So before this year you had 22 ties in 44 years, or 1 tie every 2 years. And this year we see 2 right off the bat.
     
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Dude, if you didn't see that RT was better than Brady in that 2016 loss....you're never going to see it. These aren't QB's you can compare head to head for many reasons-

    1) Brady is given extreme room to freelance
    2) The Pats have a professional lip-reader breaking down defensive calls
    3) Brady often looks like trash for 3 quarters, throws a couple good passes and people proclaim him the GOAT

    Tannehill is more mobile. Tannehill is more accurate. Tannehill is more athletic. And honestly, Tannehill is more consistent. Nobody else will say it but I gladly will- RT is better than Brady on most afternoons. Tannehill struggles under pressure....Brady absolutely falls to pieces with pressure (AKA, watch our prime time game last year). Nobody really pressures Brady like we do though because they're scared of his quick release.

    Why do you think we've invested so much in our secondary? It's the exact recipe to ruin Brady's day. Since Tannehill has been in Miami, he has never looked as bad as Brady looked last season against us. So if you're going to compare the two of them in a bubble based on head's up games, Ryan Tannehill is a better quarterback than Brady.
     
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  18. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Umm.. I think that's only true in an alternate universe KeyFin (and of course there's no actual evidence of an "alternate universe").

    You know I like stats (big story eh?), and stats are really good to use when sample size is large. Well.. even when you subtract the effect of the defense (adjust by points allowed) AND you adjust stats for era, Brady is still top 15 all time. Tannehill is statistically average.

    There's really no comparison. We'll see what happens this year, but with past performance there's no question at all: Brady >> Tannehill.
     
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  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Okay, but this brings us back to many prior conversations- how many stat points do you deduct for cheating? Illegal formations, deflated balls, bugging locker rooms, messing with field equipment, buying playbooks and of course, their famous lip reader. Unless you can tell me EXACTLY how all their advantages affected Brady's QB Ratings, then this can't be an argument on stats alone. Your research in this one is tainted.

    I've always thought Brady is the highest overrated QB in the league and I think he'd fail in any other system. I just don't have any respect for the guy after he destroyed evidence and lied to the league...I can't fathom a universe where that doesn't earn a lifetime ban.
     
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  20. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I see your points and concerns. Right now, it seems RT is a guy opposing teams say, damn! We just got beat by RT! However, he thrives on being underrated. Do defensive coordinators even have to do any extra game planning for him? He’s done ok considering he is a work in progress. He didn’t give up and made some key plays that helped us win 2 games. I hope he continues to learn and grow and by seasons end we know for sure we have our QB. If he stumbles and becomes the reason why we are losing games then maybe we need to take a QB 1st. in the draft.
     
  21. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah.. a "hidden parameter" in the model that can be set to any value.

    I do wonder though.. Belichick's coaching tree isn't good. So if he's cheating he's doing something even his assistant coaches can't replicate. And none of them accuse Belichick of any meaningful cheating. I mean I understand why people want to say Belichick's success is in large part due to cheating, but you have to wonder at some point why no one can replicate this.
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they're better people and don't want to replicate it? I mean, how many of those assistants went out and hired a guy like Ernie Adams to interrogate AFC East players and sit in the booth with binoculars to study opposing coaches? We say winning is everything but it's really not- to most of us, integrity is everything.

    One point you're wrong on though is that others haven't complained- many of the teams have repeatedly behind closed doors. A few have threatened to file reports and lawsuits if necessary, which is the only reason Brady was suspended in the first place (and the whole Deflategate scandal). It's also why teams traveling to Gillette use their own technology teams, add extra security in hotels, have strict procedures on throwing stuff in the trash, etc. All that came about because of the "Patriots Way".
     
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  23. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I meant that I'm not aware of any coaches in Belichick's coaching tree coming out saying cheating was a primary factor in Belichick's success. I personally find that odd given that they're now their own HC's.

    Think of the paradox here. IF these former assistants care more about integrity than winning at all costs AND Belichick's success was primarily due to cheating, THEN they should tell the world what Belichick has been doing. On the other hand, IF they care about winning at all costs, then why can't they replicate what Belichick is supposedly doing?

    Doesn't make sense KeyFin.
     
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  24. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    No maybe's about it. You are totally out of your league with these absurd statements that show no coordination between what you say and what is presented.
     
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  25. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Laughable...
    Lets compare the money time/downs, where good QBs thrive..

    2nd Half:
    RT: 65.7 passer rating
    Brady: 119.3 passer rating

    3rd down
    RT: 53.2 passer rating
    Brady: 79.2 passer rating

    Redzone:
    RT: 71.5 passer rating
    Brady: 105.1 passer rating
     
  26. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Like when he ran for that 1st to end the game? How about the Rams game last year he brought us back from nothing to win at the wire?
     
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  27. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    No mentions of how beat up and poor the OL was yesterday? Just might effect how well we execute a tad.
     
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  28. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Giving two examples in two years does not make it the norm, those are exceptions. No one is here saying Tannehill is a bum, so he is going to have his moments of being good.
     
  29. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Riiight just not on, "money plays" which I'm sure are as easily quantified as fairy dust.
     
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  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah.. stats comparisons for 2018 aren't really that useful yet. WAY too small sample size. I mean right now Ryan Fitzpatrick sits atop the QB passer rating table with a 151.5 rating for two games. Anyone really think this is anything other than small sample size?
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/passing.htm

    Better to wait until we have at least 150+ passing attempts. That's usually when it's much less likely stuff can be explained by random variation alone (depends on the case but that's a decent rule of thumb). Tannehill has only 51 passing attempts this year and Brady has 74. So maybe after game 5 or 6 we can compare Tannehill and Brady THIS year (clear what the comparison is over their careers).

    And that 150+ attempts rule of thumb goes for splits too. So if you're just looking at redzone stats, same thing applies.
     
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  31. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    :001_rolleyes:
     
  32. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    His stats as a whole does not tell the story of RT as a QB, agreed. No one brought up stats until someone tried to compare Tannehill to Tom frickin Brady. "tOm BrAdY mIsSeS tHrOwS aLl tHe TiMe"

    However, his current stats show how poor hes been on 3rd down this year, which was my original point.
     
  33. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The college system works perfectly...just make them go for two on every single drive in OT.
     
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  34. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Voice of reason.

    Sensible explanation: Belichick is a one of a kind genius and you can't replicate that.
     
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  35. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    You know, as utterly insane as the last sentence is, the frustrating thing is it could be true. What you said about him being more athletic, mobile...(not sure I agree about more consistent, but whatever). The problem is, I don't think Tannehill believes it. Brady sure as hell doesn't think anyone is better than him and doesn't think any defense can stop him.

    Look, I hope like hell I am wrong. I hope this week, and esp in two weeks, there is no doubt in anyone's mind that I am totally wrong. The good news is Tannehill and the Fins can prove me--and everyone--completely wrong. My opinion doesn't matter. Their performance does.

    And anyway, I can say without a doubt, most of you guys know way more than I do.
     
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  36. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Good review, I agree on most of it.
     
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  37. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    lol..right.
     
  38. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    We call this psychological projection.

    It's also a very ignorant statement.
     
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  39. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    I call it the least controversial thing said about him. As a matter of fact, I work and live around a lot of fans of other teams...we talk football often. This is the only place I get called names for saying RT is substandard. I'm not complaining, but outside this tiny enclave of fandom and "homerism", my opinion of him is widely accepted. It's the norm.

    But as I said earlier, RT will have the chance to prove himself and his critics wrong. Defense, good enough. WR, RB, TE, good enough. Oline good enough. Coaching, good enough. If RT is what you, and others think he is, we'll win the division and go deep into the playoffs. This debate will be settled soon enough.
     
  40. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Although its early in the season and still way too early to start jerking each other off, but food for thought after week 2

    32 teams in the NFL

    Only 7 of those teams, 22% remain undefeated

    The Dolphins are one of those 7
     
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