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Cowher, Fox, Rex...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Redwine4all, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    I named Schwartz, and a few others, as Candidates to lead the Fins next year.

    And to leave no stone unturned, I think it might do well to explore some of these older guys...

    I just know the culture has to change. Gase isn't the answer. We can hope he is, we can try to make excuses for him...or we can face the reality. At the end, the guy is a joke. He's a coordinator. He's in over his head.

    But, maybe I am wrong. We'll know in three weeks. I predict we lose all three. I would bet good money we lose 2-3 and I would bet a year's salary we lose at least 1-3.

    If we lose all three, we'd be 3-4. I don't think Gase can maintain the locker room with that kind of adversity.

    Imagine we lose 2 of 3. We'd be 4-3, and still will have lost 3 of 4.

    If we go 2-1, I'll be shocked. If we go 3-0, I will apologize to Gase and promise to not publicly bash him again. I don't think any chance that happens!

    I think we need to cut bait, sooner than later, and start seriously thinking about who is going to lead this franchise.
     
  2. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It's way too premature for this type of thinking. I do get where you're coming from and Gase does need to figure out an offensive identity. You don't make a coaching change at 3-1 or even 3-3 for that matter. Ross has way too much respect for Gase to even consider that...he definitely has the whole year to prove himself. And I do think we'll turn things around quickly...especially with Reshad Jones returning. It's a completely different team with him on the field.

    If we were going to make a change next year though, here's the name I'd be floating- Dan Campbell.
     
  4. Electric Boogaloo

    Electric Boogaloo Inventor of the question mark

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    I think Gase has the potential to be a very good long term coach. He has the respect of his players and doesn’t seem to be afraid of tough decisions with personnel and doesn’t play scared on Sundays. I do believe he needs work on getting the team to play with intensity and toughness. We consistently start flat and get beat psychically. His coordinator days have him too finesse, still. Sometime football is just mano a mano. Remember that stretch when Ajayi just out toughed opposing teams and how it elevated everyone else? I think a plain old mean and nasty Oline might do wonders, but that’s stating the obvious. Doesn’t seem like he prioritizes it enough in his system. Truth is that talented WRs and rbs are a dime a dozen and all can excel with a good qb and a tough as nails Oline.
     
  5. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    How is Cowher still an appealing name? His appeal was lost to me after his second year of retirement..

    His name is as appealing as Parcells was to the Cowboys... Gibbs to the redskins after a long layoff... and now gruden to the raiders... pass..

    John Fox? Youre kidding right... is he coming with 2013 Peyton manning with him?
     
  6. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Calling Gase a joke and then naming guys like Cowher, John Fox and Rex Ryan as his replacements hahaha
     
  7. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah...I remember that all pro he had with Carolina when he went to the Super Bowl? HOF Jake Delhomme?
     
  8. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

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    "UNDERPANTS..!!!"

     
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  9. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I think a lot of teams give up on their HC too early. We should stay the course with Gase. However, if we are in position to grab a QB high in the draft I would like us to have one to develop.
     
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  10. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    Not saying I want any of these guys but to be fair, they all went to at least conf championships. Their teams "ran the ball" and if you could find any of their former players who didn't respect them I'd be shocked. gase IS a joke, a fraud and temperamentally unfit to be an HC.
     
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  11. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Who gives a f about what Bill Cowher did 15 years ago. How is that relevant.

    Last 3 seasons
    Fox
    14-34
    Rex
    19-28
    Gase
    19-17 **JOKEEEEEE****
     
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    As much as I love me some Sexy Rexy, I don't think him or his brother land any prominent coaching jobs anytime soon.
     
  13. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    James Bettcher is a name to watch out for. Led a very formidable defense with annually changing personnel in Arizona while with Arians.
     
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  14. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    Wanna cut back on that caffeine or whatever got you amped, eThug? 15 years ago? How does time negate what someone is capable of in regard to leading men? The fact is they have that certain trait. gase was lucky Peyton chose DEN. Peyton made gase. Not the other way around.
     
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  15. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I expect Schwartz to end up in Houston should Bill O'Brien be fired, and at 1-3 it's looking likely. You need significant talent to run his Wide Nine front and Houston has that in spades with Clowney, Watt, and Mercilus.

    If Cower didn't want the Giants job both times it opened up I don't expect him to coach again. Not like Miami fans would be patient enough for him to build his team like Pittsburgh did.
     
  16. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Miami fans patient? Miamis had 1 winning season in prior 10 years before Gase won 10 his first year. Now he has the team 3-1 and hes a "joke" and deserves to be fired. You are correct. Dolphin fans are anything but patient.
     
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  17. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Whenever the next change comes, I am sick and tired of hiring rookie coaches and having them learn on the job and fail at it. Five in a row.

    We need to time it right, and hire someone for his second job who just needed a change of scenery. Like Andy Reid did in kc, or fox in Denver, tony Dungy in indy, or Pete Carroll in Seattle.

    Or going back in time, Marty schotenheimer, marv leavy, and our own don shula.
     
  18. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    eThug....LOL...that's hysterical. There are a few on here when you post anything critical of Gase or RT.
     
  19. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Fool's gold trying to bring in an archetype like that - gotta look at the people as individuals. Some of the hottest and best coaches are first timers: Eagles and Pederson, Rams and McVay, Bears and Nagy, Titans and Vrabel.
     
  20. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    It's not entirely fair, but it's also projecting. And based off the shellacking our main rival gave us, combined with the utter failure of last year, it's not out of the realm of possibility. Plus, people just like to speculate. Truth is, this is on Gase one way or the other - he either starts winning and the naysayers stfu, or he keeps losing and get's the axe.


    It's the same pretty much everywhere.
     
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  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Never the ones we hire man. Zero times in franchise history.

    And honestly, wtf have nagy and vrabel done yet? They're Gase three years ago.
     
  22. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    It doesn't matter what we think about Gase or what we say. Ross will make the decision and I don't see him firing Gase yet.
     
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  23. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The obvious rebuttal here is "Wanny". Or ****, "Jimmy".

    I'm not saying we shouldn't go that route if Gase fails this season, just that I think deciding on an archetype instead of listening to the person is the problem. We could go back and forth all day listing failed coaches who are rookies vs. veterans.

    The harsh reality is that most coaches seem to fail regardless, and unless things turn around quickly, we just have not hired the right person yet. If we need a new hire after the season, get a good mix of people of varying types (defense vs. offense, vet vs. rook) and hear them out. What is their philosophy. What will they do. What have they learned. What do they want. Obviously we won't be privvy to much of that stuff, but it's the most logical course of action.

    I think you also have to look at who will probably be available. Jim Schwartz? Ugh. Josh McDaniels? ****. Maybe Bill O'Brien gets fired? Please god no.
     
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  24. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    IMO 6 wins or less and he's gone. Playoffs = obviously safe. Between 7-9 wins without playoffs is probably come back but for sure hot seat.
     
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  25. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Finding a great coach is similar to finding a great QB. You can do things to increase the likelihood of success (which is why QB's in the 1st round tend to pan out more than those in the 3rd, etc...) but it's still mostly a crapshoot. Not sure you can pigeonhole and say "we should go after coach type X" and have more success.

    Just keep trying till you find the right one. Oh, and most coaches that did succeed had success by their 3rd year. You don't need to wait till year 5 in all except a few cases (and yes there are cases where you had to wait even longer.. like Belichick, but those are rare).
     
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  26. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Belichick had the Browns at 11-5 and in the 2nd round of the playoffs by year 4 of his HC tenure. Modell was the one who destroyed any further progress from that by selling Cleveland in the middle of the season the very next year.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
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  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    True, but it wasn't sustained success. He had two 5-11 seasons after that (one in Cleveland and one in NE), so yes you're right there was that one year but I'd prefer to think of Belichick as only demonstrating he was a very good coach from year 7. Most successful coaches don't just have one good year by year 3-4 and then fall off.. they actually sustain it.
     
  28. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    You can't hold the '95 team record against him when the owner sold the team midseason. Also the significance of his time there with Saban is also exceptionally noteworthy as they designed superior pass defense concepts which are still used to this day at every level and have won them both multiple championships.
     
  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    One of my favorite things about the NFL is how many different ways there are to succeed, and how the path to success might be incredibly different in one place compared to the next.

    There are numerous NFL cities where they might be geared more for success with a rookie hc. Be it ownership, the front office, or just the established culture of the team and even fan base.

    But then there are others that seem to do much better when they hire a guy who started his career somewhere else. The Giants are one for certain. The Patriots seem to be another. Same with the Chargers and chiefs.
     
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  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You can't give him credit for it either. Belichick was sitting at 4-5 when Modell announced the move, and before that 11-5 playoff year they had two consecutive 7-9 seasons, so they were on track for another 7-9 season. And like I said you have that second 5-11 after that. So I'd still rather say Belichick demonstrated he was a great HC from year 7 rather than year 4.

    Maybe the best example is Landry though. First 6 seasons clear losing seasons then started winning consistently from year 7.
     
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  31. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    This still doesn't compute for me. Who exactly - outside of Shula - has been a successful coach? Are we arguing for Wanny 2.0 here? I think you are just looking at a recently successful coach (Coughlin for Giants, BB for Pats, Reid for Chiefs ... ? for chargers) and trying to turn it into a theory. If we are specifically looking at an archetype instead of a person, I think we are hamstringing ourselves.
     
  32. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I think that when you're starting from absolute scratch, without an established successful front office and owner, without a culture of winning....which is where we will be whenever Gase moves on....then asking a rookie coach to start from there and establish something is just too much.

    The examples of it are pretty rare. Not even looking a super bowls, just who has taken over as a rookie in a situation where the team has been lousy for a while and eventually turned them into a winner in the last 25 years or so?

    I guess Tony Dungy in Tampa. Gruden in Oakland before that fell apart. And crazy train Harbaugh in sf before that imploded too. And that's about it. Its asking a lot.
     
  33. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Who is holding back our offense, Gase or Tannehill?
     
  34. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I'm not currently defending RT. I'm more cautious than I have been.

    But I think most of the blame falls on Gase. Best case, hes so freaking stubborn to run a system exactly the way he wants, that he refuses to accept that he hasn't yet had the players to make it work at even an adequate level. Work with what you have.
     
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  35. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Yep. The PANIC BUTTON has been pressed by some of the "the sky is falling" thinkers because we lost one game to the Patriots - Like that team has never done THAT to us before.
    Wow.
    We might as well change the line of the old Gun's & Roses song to "Take me down to panic struck city!."
    The mere fact that Gase still has a winning record after having Osweiler as starting QB last year ought to give some of these "nervous nellies" at least a hint of a possibility of a sign of something resembling a clue that calling for his head now is somewhere out past the orbit of Jupiter ridiculous.

    This team is nowhere near as lost as it was under some of the early successors to Shula. Remember them? And we don't have Bobby Beathard running the personnel department.

    Let's all turn down the thrust control on the panic rocket. The Patriots are not going to hold back on throttling anyone - let alone the Dolphins. And our O line has taken another hit - this time a double whammy. And that happens in football.

    Three years is not enough time to totally rebuild a defense what made porous look good, an offense that couldn't run on Maudie Frickert, clean out some of the malcontents, and install a toughened mentality for the entire team. And the season's only 25% over.
    OY!!!!
     
  36. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Is sufficient and plenty of time in this day and age of the NFL to turn any unit or team around.
     
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  37. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    I found this appropriate:

    According to his players, McVay’s greatest strength isn’t some mad-scientist tendency to lock himself in a dark lab and emerge hours later with dozens of ingenious play designs. While he’s a wunderkind play designer, his best attribute is his ability to clearly communicate the tenets of his offensive philosophy. “It was really just the way he portrayed things,” Goff says. “The way he communicated. The way he made something that’s so complicated seem so simple. Right then, it was like, ‘Wow.’”

    Most people are stubborn in their ways,” Whitworth says. “Just like everyday people who do a job. This is how I’ve always done it. I’m going to do it this way.
    He’s the opposite of that. Not only is he the most intelligent person in the room, he’s also the most humble."

    https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/10/4/17936990/sean-mcvay-offensive-mind-los-angeles-rams

    OTOH, our "offensive guru" has troubles teaching his concepts and often chastises players (publicly, which is even worse) who have troubles understanding his playbook.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
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  38. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Another Fractured Fairy Tale! That is putting a bandaid on an amputation. Rebuilding the culture and the direction of the team is a preferred goal to putting temporary lipstick on a pig to get to the playoffs.
     
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  39. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you're very familiar with fairy tales, but this isn't one. For recent examples explain Mike Zimmer, Bruce Arians, Dan Quinn, Doug Pederson, Doug Marrone, and Sean McVay.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
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  40. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    So many naysayer threads right now so I’ll just reply to all of them in this one

    The chances a team wins 3 in a row is pretty slim.

    The chances a team wins 4 in a row are astronomical.

    History tells us the Patriots don’t lose 2 in a row. That just doesn’t happen, but it did.

    There was no way...NO WAY they were going to lose 3 in a row, at home where we’ve not won in 10 years.

    I have a feeling we could beat Cincinnati 100-0 and there would STILL be naysayers.

    Attitude is contagious. You can be part of the solution or part of the problem.
     
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