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Stay with Osweiler

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan40, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I did not know whether to laugh or cry after reading that post. Honestly, the silliest thing I have read in a long time. BTW, Balla might want to hear Gore's reply why he was not in the game......incredibly foolish take by some of our fans. Not surprised at all.
     
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  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Maybe Tannehill has looked so bad because of the shoulder injury. That actually makes a lot of sense.

    I still think we need to be looking to replace him.
     
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  3. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Loved hearing what Brock told Drake in OT, but there's no way any of us can convincingly say that Tannehill wouldn't, or doesn't do something similar in that scenario. Pretty sure TV showed Tannehill talking to Drake on the sideline while he had his head down. We saw clips on TV of Ryan as well up and down the sidelines yesterday laughing, smiling, celebrating with the guys on some of those great plays down the stretch. So, I'm just not really sure where that's coming from. I get what you're saying, I just don't think there is a way we can say it or justify it. It's easy to say right now because of an emotional comeback roller coaster type of win yesterday, but this team has had some pretty resilient moments and wins even with Tannehill under center. Yesterday seems to amplify this type of "leadership" and "spark" thing though because of a couple of great plays by Albert Wilson, that seem to be accredited more to the QB right now than they should be. I mean, if that first WR screen is stopped for a 3 yard gain like it is the large majority of the time we run it, and like it did every time we ran it after the second Wilson TD, we're not having this conversation. Instead we're complaining about Gase's playcalling, the WR screen play, and another loss.. I don't want that to be construed as a knock on one QB, or a support of another either, because that's just not my point here. I think it's hard as fans though to make an assumption on leadership traits. All we can visibly see on tv are some celebrations after plays, and results of those plays as they unfold. We have no idea how they command the huddle, talk to guys in the huddle, talk to each other after good or bad plays.

    I dont know, I just feel like there's alot of over-reacting going on to a win, and there's always an over reaction by fans to back up QB's when the starter isn't perceived as a top 10 talent. I mean, most around here were laughing and mocking the team for signing Osweiler, and again for keeping him on the roster it seemed. Now, were talking about starting him?
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It’s to small of sample size but I’ll tell you what I wrote in training camp about Brock because I think it applies to this game..

    While most folks were damning him for even being alive, having the Osweiler name and being on our roster, what I saw in practice was different then what the narrative was at that time, When I watched him I noticed a few things that made me go on the record and say “he will win the backup job”

    “Brock is boisterous on the field and showing good command of his teammates, he’s getting guys lined up in quick fashion, moves around pretty well and is displaying some vision ”

    I think players want to be led, and on a week where there was some confusion and angst, he stepped in from the first play and let the players know he’s got this and will be in control all day, He’s confident in what he’s doing because he knows the offense and that shows with his tone and verbal communication on the field, he’s literally very loud on the field, and I believe the players responded by having a higher level of execution..

    Jmo
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  5. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm going to ignore the first part of this because, well, if you really think we made up a shoulder injury because he was afraid to play him against Mack, I'm not sure there's a discussion to have here.

    However, with respect to Gore, did you watch the plays leading up to that drive? Gore was a beast, and was completely gassed. We even called a timeout if I'm not mistaken to try and get him some extra time. IIRC, we just tried him twice down at the goal line as well. If you line him up there again, the defense is going to think he's for sure getting the ball and be all over him. For those reasons alone going to Drake in that situation is a good decision; not dumb.
     
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  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to knock RT here, but you can listen to just about any WR/RB that's left the Dolphins over the past 7 years. Some like Marshall/Landry flat-out bad mouthed RT while others bragged about their new QB's leadership and poise. Along those same lines, you heard the same stuff from our teammates whenever Moore did start. When they were asked what they thought, every single time the player started with, "He's a great leader that..." Same thing from current/former coaches; the first thing they talk about is leadership and confidence.

    With Tannehill, Gase and everyone else talks about his talent- he can make the throws, read the defenses, etc. We've also heard a lot of, "He's emerging to be more of a leader in the locker room" but you'll never hear someone say, "He's a great leader" or "He inspires us." That's just not who he is and that's okay, as long as he can figure out how to get through December. To me, it feels like he needs someone motivating him in the biggest games instead of the other way around.

    As a writer, I pay very close attention to words much like cBrad does with stats and numbers. It often lets you read between the lines of what's not said or how something is said. For example, someone posted a video yesterday of a physician talking about Tannehill's shoulder injury. That person has nothing to do with RT though and was giving an outsider opinion without having the facts...he said twice "It's possible that.." meaning he was guessing based on how he got hit. That's still helpful but most people completely missed that the guy had not evaluated or even talked to RT...he was just giving an opinion based on the circumstances that leaked out from the media.

    Again, I'm not trying to praise what Osweiler did yesterday as much as how he handled himself. You mentioned that Tannehill may have been doing the exact same thing but if that's true, why have we never heard a single instance of it across the past 7 years? We heard it from multiple reporters after Osweiler's 1st game- surely we'd hear it at least once after Tannehill's 82 starts. But we haven't.
     
  7. Dolphins1372

    Dolphins1372 Guest

    I saw osweiller call some audibles yesterday. One from our own endzone. They all worked. Tanny dont call good audibles. What kills me. Is tannehill has all the tangeables to be great. And he keeps playing passive and dumb. Quarterback has to be smart, have fire running in their veins when chit hits the fan. I don’t get that from rt. He gets scared. And plays worse when we need him most. I would love to see tannehill succeed now. While he is still a dolphin. But we need a good quarterback now. Whoever it may be.
     
  8. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    There was one thing yesterday that gave me BAD flashbacks! When Osweiler got picked on that out to the sideline. That thing looked just like Jay Fiedler threw it. I mean, that was some scary stuff and probably explains why I did not sleep well last night.
     
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  9. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I think I would "rest" RT's shoulder for one more week and see what happens. I would let him dress and have him be our "emergency QB." The emergency would be that Brock comes back to reality.

    Although it feels like an eternity since Brock was a highly coveted free agent, it has only been two years. I admit that he was a disaster in Houston, but I don't think Bill O'Brien ever truly understood what he had in Brock. It sounds like ownership forced Brock onto him. It made for an ugly situation where O'Brien may not have really wanted him nor did his understand the limitations of Brock. He really tried to push the ball down field, and Brock's deep accuracy is not his strong suit.

    He was traded to Cleveland who never really wanted him. They just wanted a second round pick. Afterwards Denver made him their choice C. Needless to say, after the Houston debacle no one really wanted him and he was never really given an offseason to learn a system. I am willing to say that last year was a mess and just toss it from my memory. I think there is something to be said for putting him back in a system that he thrived in. Maybe he is "just a system QB," but we run his system. I personally don't think that he is as far removed from being a coveted free agent than others may think.

    Giving RT time to fully heal would allow us to shed a little clarity onto what we have in Brock. Maybe there is something, and maybe Brock is just a backup.
     
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  10. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Osweiler’s ability to audible at the line really helped us win yesterday. He set up his protection perfectly and always had an eye for the play clock. He also threw the ball away when pressured instead of taking stupid sacks like Tannehill. Those two aspects were a huge reason why we won. Seems like Osweiler has a better command and understanding of the offense.
     
  11. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    I like this post. Your summary is on point.
     
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  12. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Nearly all QB's look good playing for the Pats under BB. Jimmy G was crashing before he blew out his ACL. He's another Cassel.
     
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  13. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    you need it more between the ears than you do in the arm and legs, RT doesn't its just simple. Guy is an athlete that's about it.
     
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  14. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I think I read/heard somewhere that Gore was gassed. They sort of alternate RBs, so I’m not mad at the fact they went with Drake after Gore had some longer runs on that drive.

    Other than Gore being pretty gassed, I don’t think there was much more thought beyond that. You have to have belief that your player, esp. one of Drake’s caliber, can punch it in there. Gore is so much better at hitting the hole, but being so close, you almost feel like the TD is a given, regardless of the ball carrier.

    I personally do not see an issue with the call. It happens. Luckily, Miami came back to win, and ultimately, that’s all that matters.
     
  15. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    That has been the case since the day Tanny arrived ....... he has always relied on his arm to bail out the lack of anticipation in his throws. It catches up to you though, as we've seen when good teams flood the passing lanes.
     
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  16. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    100% right!!
     
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  17. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    This is exactly what I am wondering about and speculated about it in another post. Unfortunately for me, I don't know Jack, so I am unable to really tell what is going on with the calls, audibles, etc.. All I know is physical shortcomings aside, our offense looked like it ran more smoothly under BO. The sample size is small, but I like the intangibles that BO brings. RT might be better physically, but BO has it between the ears. Too bad we can't combine the two and have ourselves a BORT. When they play bad, we can A BORT and then in the next draft take a QB. ;-)
     
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  18. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

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    Win-Loss records for Adam Gase QBs
    Brock Osweiler 1-0
    Ryan Tannehill 11-7
    Matt Moore 2-2 / 0 - 1
    Jay Cutler 6-8

    As you can see, under Adam Gase the team has shown an ability to win games with different quarterbacks under center. When Ryan Tannehill went down, Matt Moore stepped in and helped get us to the play offs. Obviously last season things didn't go as planned with Jay Cutler, but this team had greater issues beyond the quarterback position that crippled us. And this season, Ryan Tannehill has again got hurt and the quarterback replacing him, Brock Osweiler, has won a game. I think this shows that Gase can plan for changes at the quarterback position and this team can still be competitive.

    Should we stick with Osweiler and bench Tannehill? I'm not sure, but what I will say is that I think this team will probably win the same amount of games regardless of which quarterback we put under center. I think this system that Gase runs can be implemented by Tannehill or Osweiler. Granted I would lean towards Tannehill over Osweiler, but if Tannehill is hurt sit him until he's healthy, and if Osweiler plays that well in his absence and wins games then stick with him even when Tannehill is healthy.

    On the one hand it is a nice position to be in when you've got two quarterbacks that can implement the system. On the other it is a damning of our quarterback position when the backup can do what the starter can do, which should make our front office and coaching consider what they do going forwards next off season because the starter should be significantly better than the backup, and for us that is potentially not the case.
     
  19. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    whats even more incredibly foolish is to not look at gase's past, anyone who had anything to say that wasn't on Gase' side has been shipped out on the first thing smoking, gore is on his final chapter and he is not going to rock the boat since he is getting more tic here than he probably would anywhere else, so you can either believe gore or believe me when i tell you any athlete on the planet no matter the sport "wants to be the one to win the game no matter how tired they want to be the one to take the last shot!!" i solely believe that was Gase's call and had nothing to do with Gore telling him he was "tired" in all honesty. Im sure Kobe turned down game winners cuz he was gassed, you gotta be kidding me man that call was solely on gase had nothing to do with goreilla!!!
     
  20. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    i would say play BO 1 more game if RT is not totally healthy, many qbs have gotten lucky look at fitzmagic sometimes stuff just falls in the direction of the qb, usually its not against the #1 ranked defense but just being optimistic lol .
     
  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It was almost impressive how bad Jay Cutler was at times. Like Curtis Painter bad
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    All I can say is, pick any episode of Very Cavalarri and fast forward to when Jay Cutler is on the screen talking about his life. Then things will be crystal clear why Cutler was the ultimate NFL tease for so long....you just have to see it for yourself to get it.
     
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  23. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    My wife watches that show and I do just what you recommend here. Cutler cracks me up and you can see why his teammates loved him. It's just that he could give 2 ****s about anything...lol
     
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  24. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Well...I had no idea what show you guys were talking about, so...I went on youtube and searched for Very Cavalarri. Oh...my...head! I would rather take a kick to the nuts! How do shows like these manage to get financing? Thankfully, I was able to delete the episodes I watched from my youtube history, so they don't accidently show up in the recommended section. Next time I am curious about something, I am going to take a cue from Cutler and tell myself, nah, it's not worth it. Just stick with not giving a **** or wanting to fire everyone and I'll be alright... :-)
     
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  25. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

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    Do I expect Osweiler to play at a high level consistently? No because he hasn't played at a high level consistently before now, so it is unlikely to change now. It's possible, but unlikely.

    So all I'm saying is start Osweiler until RT is fully healthy. If by that point Osweiler is still playing well and we are winning games, don't change that winning formula for RT. With that said, I'd expect Osweiler to struggle, like he did in Denver and Houston, and RT will be back.

    Cutler was bad at times, but he did have his moments when he played pretty well (e.g. opening game against the Chargers) and very well (e.g. Oakland and NE home games). That's typical Jay Cutler, it's why he managed to earn as much money as he did because he showed enough for teams to give him pay days when they realistically shouldn't have done. But my point stands, he did show flashes that he could execute Gase's system and other QBs not named RT have done the same, so there should be no mass panic to go back to RT if Osweiler continues to execute Gase's system effectively.
     
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  26. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Lol... the show is horrible... but Cutler is comedy gold. That dude gives zero ****s... and for the life of me I can’t helo but not like him even though he basically stole $10mil and a roster spot last year.
     
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  27. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    I agree with all of your post except the last portion which I have put in a bold font.

    I agree that our starting QB should be our best QB. I see no reason to place a an arbitrary "not as good as our starter" qualifier on the backup QB position for the following reasons:

    1) There is already a financial limit (the cap) that will indirectly limit how much we can spend for a second QB.
    • The QB position is the highest priced position on a team. The amount spent on QB's has a significant effect on how much money is left for other positions.
    2) There is a limited market of competent QB's available to select from.
    • Since the NFL Draft is the most cost effective market to get a QB from and the market is limited by individuals skill sets & experience, occasionally teams will even look at players in other positions as possible candidates for a QB as a method to "expand" the NFL drafts QB market.
    • More often then not, QB's become receivers or defensive personnel because their QB skills won't get them on an NFL team but are transferable in some degree to other positions, which don't pay as much, but will get them into the NFL.
    3) There are varying attributes among the QB's in the NFL market.
    • Not every NFL caliber QB candidate will meet a teams requirements. This may be the most severe limit in QB selection.
    3) The QB position is usually the most important part of an offense and every team needs the best they can get.
    • There is no meaningful reason to add an artificial limit on the capabilities of a backup QB when all the limits on QB availability and cost indirectly establish one.
    • The team has it in their power to put more or less emphasis on a backup QB, only limited by what they have left to establish and maintain the rest of the team.
    You have seen what is happening to NFL football with all the additional rules and regulations being administered by NFL Officiating. Do you want to add that kind of officiating situation to judge if a backup QB is too good? Imagine "backup QB gate" which would be like "Deflate Gate" multiplied by 31.

    I think having a cap limit and an NFL draft and Free Agency addresses a teams ability to get the best payers they can in a relatively fair and equal manner without adding another "requirement", such as the starting QB should be substantially better than the backup QB.
     
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  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    If the show focused on Cutler's life (which would be watching deer cams, ordering pizza and bragging about driving all the way to the barber to get a haircut) I would watch it....he's freaking hysterical! I think I watched one full episode total, but I've fast-forwarded through several episodes just to see him act like a lazy idiot.
     
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  29. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 2022 Mother's Day and May Flowers!

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    Glad that Brock got the Fins the win. But really if he goes the way that he did and got them the win. Keep him but otherwise they are going to have a healthy Ryan T back.
     
  30. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I think they have to go with Brock and will. Even if T-hill's shoulder is better, it probably won't be 100% and ready to take a pounding. You also have to go with the hot hand even it was just one game. The team was falling fast. They played and beat a pretty good Bears team.

    Oz has always been a very upbeat and passionate player. I always liked that about him when I would see him with other teams. The problem always was that he would just eventually start slipping in his play and eventually get benched. He was always a passionate "team" guy.
    He is going to start. I hope he has progressed and learned from past mistakes and knows how to keep it together. Sucks for T-hill. He's a good guy, but it just is what it is at this point. It has been many years and the odds of him rising and being a SB winning QB are certainly fading.

    We actually couldn't trade up for a QB in this past draft We had just too many holes to fill.

    This is now where Gase has to show his coaching prowess and supposed QB whisperer s--t. This is it or he will be gone as well.

    That was a great game and major kudos to Brock and the rest of the team to be able to show the fortitude to hang in there, keep slugging and come back from behind to get the win. That hasn't been typical of this team in recent years.

    It is Oz all day next Sunday.

    P. S. Absolute major effin' props to Tunsil and the rest for completely erasing Mack. I couldn't even tell the guy was on the field. Major props.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
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  31. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

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    I have always been a supporter of the idea that we should draft or sign a quarterback to push Ryan Tannehill to be the best he can be. In his time here he's never really had legitimate competition. So I've always voiced that opinion when it's come to the draft or free agency, bring someone in to push RT.

    Also, I'm also a supporter of having the best backup quarterback you can have because they are an important member of the team. If your starter goes down you need someone that can step in and run the offense. Thankfully we had that in Matt Moore when RT went down, had our backup been David Fales I'd argue that we wouldn't have made the play offs.

    So of course I don't place a limit on how good a backup quarterback should be, however it is a damning of our QB situation when we are having the discussion that we should keep our backup in even when RT is healthy. That should never be the case. The starter should be undisputed. When Big Ben missed games and Landry Jones started, there was never a question over Big Ben remaining on the bench when he was cleared to play. Same goes for Tom Brady when Jimmy G and Jacoby Brissett stepped in, there was never any serious consideration on their part to not bring their future HOF QB back in. The difference with us is that RT is merely a good quarterback. He has never been and arguably will never be a top tier QB. As such his place could be up for grabs if Osweiler takes the opportunity while RT is out injured. I said it last year, had Cutler played like he did in Chicago under Gase with us, there was a chance we could have retained him or let him openly compete with RT this off season.

    Like I said, I'm a advocate of having the best backup possible and Osweiler is a fine backup QB. I've also wanted someone to come in and push RT, and from the looks of it that is what Osweiler is going to do as long as he's starting. But it shows how questionable our QB situation is if Osweiler can displace our starting QB. Ask yourself how many other teams would Osweiler start for? Buffalo... San Francisco... I'm really struggling. So if Osweiler can displace our guy, that doesn't say a lot about RT. That's my point on why this discussion is a damming of our QB situation because realistically our starter should walk straight back in when healthy regardless of how well his fill in plays.
     
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  32. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Did you watch the game when they cut to Gore on the sideline gasping for air? even after they took a TO? Did you even listen to Gore talk about it? Or do you just accept some of the nonsense theories you throw out as facts? The rest of your previous post was more foolishness....but I think you know that already. Why should everyone believe their lying eyes and ears when we can just lazily speculate and make up things. I hardly think a HOFer like Gore worries about rocking the boat when he only deals in facts. Posters with silly agendas about a HC ,can use baseless thoughts and a vivid imagination, to push a narrative without worry
     
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  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    You have to remember that most of the folks screaming about the Dolphins here don't even watch the game. They see a 30-second SportsCenter clip and assume they know everything there is to know. For instance, how many idiots here were screaming to bench Kiko and Tunsil this season? They're clueless.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
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  34. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    so your saying my opinion is pushing an agenda? oh my how you sound like CNN, im just telling you right now i don't care how gassed a guy is he will take the last shot, and if you believe everything that a player or coach says to the media than i have some used toilet paper for sale, $19.99 and if you act in the next 30 minutes you'll get a second roll free!!!!
     
  35. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I am saying you are disregarding the facts to take a shot at Gase. Period. Not really hard to understand.
     
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  36. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    If this TEAM had played like it did yesterday, but instead had RT in as QB, the Dolphins would have still won and would most likely not of had those two INT's. If the Bears make that OT FG most here would not be saying that Brock played well. Even if he played exactly the same. And that is just dumb.

    I really can't understand the mentality of those who think Brock has somehow turned a corner. I'm thankful that he did enough to win on Sunday, but the TEAM had more to do with this win than Brock alone. And those who are screaming for him to take over the starting QB role should actually be screaming for the TEAM to keep playing this well. Alas, we wont see that because Dolphin's fans are dumb.
     
  37. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    It's amazing. They constantly ***** about Tannehill and his bad decisions but I don't think I've read one person mention Brock's pick-6.

    Amazing but completely unsurprising.
     
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  38. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I had mentioned it in one of these threads, but I'm sure it's been lost in the love fest. lol. That INT was as ugly a it can get. I'm not putting to much thought to the first one though, although it was a poor throw, I don't mind the decision. It would have been nice to get some points there before halftime, but he had man coverage down the sideline with the big guy, Parker. Deep shot, little time left for Chicago even if it failed as it did, and it didn't leave them with great field position. It was a poor underthrow, Parker did little to come back and fight for the ball and did a poor job getting off the LOS which got him stuck along the sideline not really giving Brock a place to put it, it didn't matter though because it was so underthrown.

    Both were bad throws, but from a decision standpoint I hated the second one far more than the first.
     
  39. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Brockmagic against the Lions while Tanny heals up. Maybe even start Brock against the Texans (you KNOW Brock would LOVE to beat them) since it is a short week. I don't see the Brockmagic lasting longer than that -if it even lasts that long.
     
  40. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Nov 29, 2007
    Very well said about the perception of Tannehill’s leadership.

    One thing I’d like to point out however is that for all the badmouthing of Tannehill’s leadership, when you look at the numbers of offensive players who have left Tannehill to join other teams is that their production does not increase after they leave. The possible excpetion to this is Rishard Matthews, but he left Miami because Philbin kept him on the bench behind players he was clearly better than - and even then his numbers increased because he was on the field a lot more often, but there was no increase in efficiency.

    The perceived lack of leadership goes back to his college days, when he was forced to play WR even though he ultimately proved himself to be a better QB than the guys ahead of him on ghe depth chart.
    I kind of think that if Tannehill was in a more reserved culture like Japan or England then his style of leadership would be much more respected, but in America leaders are expected to be loud and brash.
     
    djphinfan, danmarino and Irishman like this.

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