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NO vision!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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  2. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I actually read the article, so I can honestly say David Hyde is like many members here in thephins and has no flipping clue what he's talking about.

    Quarterback, quarterback, quarterback, that's all I flipping hear is quarterback. Tell me genius Hyde, and any others who want to side in his camp...does the quarterback play defense? Does the quarterback let the opposing offense rush for 600 yards over a 3 game stretch? Does the quarterback cause an opposing offense to go 3 and out? Tell me geniuses, what good does it do to have a quarterback that can light up a scoreboard when you have a defense that's as strong as a wet paper bag with a hole in it? Anyone here actually old enough to remember the Marino/O'Brien shootout?

    Dan Marino leads the Dolphins and lights up the scoreboard with 45 points...FORTY FIVE!!!!! And the Dolphins LOSE because O'Brien led the Jets and put up 51 points! Who scores 45 points in a game and LOSES? The Dolphins do because their defense then...and now is weak! We have the talent, God only knows we have the talent on defense to dominate opposing offenses, but the defensive scheme, the "Wide 9" of Matt Burke has failed and failed miserably. This past Thursday, the Texans scored 3 specific touchdowns due to poor defense; 2 wide opened long passes and the opening series of the 3rd quarter in which Houston ran the ball right down our throats, including the 58 yard rush by former Dolphin Lamar Miller. Take those 3 TD's away by well executed defense, and the score is no longer 42-23 Houston, but 23-21 Miami.

    I'm not saying that it's not time to start looking for Tannehill's successor. I'm not saying that at all. We do need to be looking at that future and with Ryan's injuries as of late, its something to seriously consider however, unless we can even STOP an opposing team's offense, I don't care who we have at the offensive helm...Tom Brady or the reincarnation of Dan Marino, we're going to continue losing royally.

    It's time for the Burke experiment to come to an end and if Gase doesn't pull the trigger (if the authority ultimately lies with him), then it's time to Ross to step in and make that executive decision and put Gase on notice. This team needs a guru as it's DC. We have an incredible amount of talent on defense, way too much to get blown out by weak opposing offenses.

    The days of losing in Miami need to come to a close right quick and in a hurry
     
  3. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Huh?I guess I read this article different than you.I took it as this team has no clue what direction to go The entire organization not just Qb.
    I said this team was built before the season like the peyton manning colts.Small quick D that plays with a lead.Of course the problem is we have no peyton manning to give us a leads.Teams fiqured to run run run and wear us out and that's exactly what is happening.
    This team should have been built to play physical like the ravens who have a limited Qb.No vision or wrong vision?
     
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  4. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if it's lack of vision as much as it is continual poor drafting. Our 2013 draft class is a complete bust. Harris is non-existent. Parker can't stay healthy. Tunsil and James are solid but our OL still sucks. On top of that, we still don't have a franchise QB.
     
    DolphinGreg likes this.
  5. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    A good offense is the best defense, signed Aaron Rogers and Pat Mahomes.

    I just dont get the point of pretending that we have the QB that we need in either THill or Brock. We dont.

    Yes. There are other problems, but having those nobodies helming the team isn't doing us any favors. Getting off to quick and big leads, responding quickly to opponent scores, having top end 2 minute, etc. These are things good QBs do that take pressure off our D and put it on the other team.
     
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  6. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Can't tell you how much I agree with this.
     
  7. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    The Wide 9 defense is an attacking defense.

    It's kind of hard to attack when the offense has largely failed in the scoring department and building leads - not to mention hasn't notched an opening drive touchdown in 18/19 games. I'm not trying to make excuses because they have really crapped the bed of as of late, but it's the reality of the situation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
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  8. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    If I told you our offseason free agent moves, but I didn't tell you who the team was, where would you think the franchise is?

    Quinn
    Gore
    Sitton
    Ammendola

    To me, that is a team in win now moment. Unfortunately, we are probably closer to rebuild mode. The article is correct; the team has no idea what the state of the franchise is.

    I think Ross needs to start thinking that a total rebuild may be needed. He really needs to step in and tell Tannenbaum to trade any aging vet with a big deal for whatever he can get. If he can't see them on the roster in 5 years, and they have value, ship em out.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    This article lacks vision and is just a $$$$$ fest. Lazy and sad. Miami obviously had a vision coming into this season. It just did not work past the injuries that the team had. Plus their dime less vision on defense is just bad
     
    danmarino likes this.
  10. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Just like every other year.Another excuse.
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    What?
     
  12. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Wow there are still people who believe tannehill is a franchise quarterback....
     
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  13. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    The entire team sucks. We need to rebuild from scratch.
     
  14. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Again...

    That’s the new Dolphins philosophy, “The Miami Dolphins; re-building every three years”
     
  15. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    To be frank, there is no such thing as a full rebuild these days. A 'rebuild' is basically new coach, maybe FO/GM and QB. The rest are interchangeable. If the new QB/coach hit, they get extended and the team constantly works around them. If not, 3-4 years later you look again.

    A bad team that finds the right people can turn it around in 2 years to be playoff team and super bowl worthy.
     
  16. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Here is the thing. There is no question that we should be selling right now. Gase just said that we will not be trading Parker who undoubtedly, in Gase's mind, is not in our future. He is on his naughty list and his days are numbered. There are a lot of aging vets with bloated contracts that we should be trying to get off our books.

    However Gase and Tannenbaum can feel their seats warming up, so instead of doing what is in the best interests of the franchise, they are doing what's in the best interests of themselves. They are keeping these guys that realistically have no future with the team with the hopes of finishing 7-9 with a shipload of excuses. This should buy these clowns one more season.

    The problem is that we are gonna likely be drafting a QB. In all likelihood, a rookie will not be leading us to the playoffs, and we still have so many holes to fill.

    It is so obvious what is happening right now.
     
  17. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    The only thing that is obvious is that if Tannehill's shoulder is not serious we will not be drafting a QB. We will be drafting defensive line in all likelihood. With offensive line or CB the next priorities
     
  18. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    It's the culture. There's no way that so many players being picked by so many different people can all be such losers. I'm not sure how the culture can be changed if new coaches aren't able to do it. Maybe @Disgustipate is right in that it starts with the owner. Maybe if players/coaches/FO personnel respected Ross more then the culture would/could change?

    I just don't know. It just seems to me that each season the Dolphins have 5-8 core players that play their heart out and the rest just go through the motions.
     
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  19. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    There have been multiple reports out of multiple different outlets that Tannehill's future is in serious jeopardy. Furthermore, it was revealed this week that Ross pushed for Tannenbaum to draft Lamar Jackson, but ultimately, gave in to the football guys. We are no longer dealing with just posters' opinions, but we are now looking at multiple published reports. Like I don't know how much clearer the writing on the wall could possibly be that his time is about up.
     
  20. Dummuck

    Dummuck Member

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    It all comes from very bad defense front line and snow balls from there..The defense line is hurt and Cam is now became old Harris is known for his speed but with the injury to his calf he can not produce any speed and wont be able to for the rest of the year and Quinn plays too many plays and is burnt out and cant do it all .. Since the very bad playing of the defensive line the LBs are trying to help the defense line by coming in closer to help which leaves the middle of the field open in which the secondary comes in to try to help the LBs which leaves that back field open..With the defense line playing so bad and not only having no sacks but also aint putting any pressure on the QB what soever giving the QB 3 to 7 seconds to find an open WR and I dont care how good the secondary is they can not cover any WR that long.. Now the last game was a complete mess not because of bad defense secondary schemes but because of bad defense line play and then the secondary had more blown coverage then good ones..That is on the players..As for coaching I do not know why Miami is playing the wide 9 in the first place for all it seems to be doing is not only doing nothing against the QB but leaving the center uncover and letting him go down field to block leaving the RBs big holes to run down the middle for big yardage..I seen so many runs against Miami where the RBs are not even being touch until they run 3 or more yards pass the line of scrimmage if touched at all..
     
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  21. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    So Ross is going to run the draft now lol. And you believe a guy with zero football IQ pushed and badgered a guy with a lifetime of football knowledge on who to draft not with the 7th round pick but the first lol. How did that conversation go?

    Ross: you know, I've been reviewing the tapes and even though we waited a year for Tannehill to heal I feel Lamar Jackson is too good a talent to pass up

    Tannenbaum: go away ross. Here, here's a chocolate. Now go outside and play. Maybe call your friend harbaugh and see if he can join you in play. The adults have work to do
     
  22. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    He's the owner. His team, his money.
    Nobody expects him to watch tape, but you can be sure he is exposed to a lot of media. A lot of that media said Jackson may be a game changing QB and available. Why wouldn't Ross lead a push for that?

    It's no different than the majority of us who watch and read about guys. But in this case, he actually can pull the trigger. He got talked out of it and is about to receive another mediocre season for it.
     
  23. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    of course. Because if we had Lamar Jackson instead of Minkah we would be undefeated. Just look at what Jackson has accomplished in Baltimore while Minkah looks like a bust lol.

    You do realise Ross is a successful businessman. How many successful businessmen try to tell their experts what they should do in areas they have no expertise in. Do you see the CEO of Ford rewriting the computer code for the organization?
     
  24. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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  25. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Jackson sucks but to say we have experts making decisions now that's funny.
     
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  26. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The same "experts" who drafted Dion Jordan? Football isn't real estate.

    You're making strawman arguments here anyway with this undefeated garbage. Instead of a lost season with not much optimism for next year, we could be developing a new QB. And while most rookies struggle their first year, some have immediate impacts (Watson). And we are seeing coaches take second and third year QBs to some impressive heights right now.

    And then, since Ross is such a successful businessman, I am sure he is paying attention to the business side of the game as well as the pure football side. You know what sells season tickets? TV spots? Local politicians? Shiny, fancy new QBs and hope for the future. You know who doesn't? Ryan Tannehill and Brock Assweiler.
     
  27. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    The failure I see in the drafting, especially at the top rounds, has been a focus on high level physical talent with undercooked football skills (Dion Jordan, Devante Parker, Charles Harris just to name a few). In the last 2 or 3 years we seem to have gone for more rounded football players, and hopefully that continues.
    In baseball terms we’ve been trying for home runs and getting a lot of strike outs and flyballs but now we’re switching to hitting more ground balls.

    Compounding the problems caused by “swinging for the bleachers” is that we’ve deliberately neglected 2 areas because the powers that be, for a long time predating Gase, considered interior OL and LB to be unimportant positions.
     
  28. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I think I remember reports saying that Ross wanted to draft a QB and move up to do it. I don't think it's too far fetched to see Ross calling for his favorite players to be drafted. If I owned the team I know I would. lol
     
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  29. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    On most of the posts people tend to oversimplify things. I think you have overcomplicated this.

    Prior to the draft, the Dolphins informed Tannehill that they may draft a QB, so to say that the organization was waiting for Tannehill to heal is disingenuous to say the least. A QB was seriously being considered.

    The fact that Ross could have pulled rank over "the football guys" at this position is far more feasible than any other position. How many franchise type QBs come out each year? 5 tops? All he needed to do was ask the scouting guys, "What grade do you have on Jackson?" Then he could ask, where does he sit amongst draft eligible QBs next year?

    Suppose the scouts said, we rate him as a B prospect or a 4 star or a 83/100 (however they rank their players) and that we think he would be the 3rd best prospect if he was in next year's draft is enough anyone really needs to make that decision.

    Hypothetically, let's just say Herbert and Lock would be rated above Jackson by the scouts. Even if we were bad this year, there is no guarantee that we could draft either of those two QBs. Our options were Jackson or roll the dice on the future. If the grade was good on Jackson, Ross had every right to make the move. Afterwards, he could have bought his own chocolate with the same money he used to buy the Dolphins.
     
  30. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    This is the original article by Ben Volin, written May 5th, that somehow morphed into Ross wanting Lamar Jackson

    "A well-placed league source tells us that the Dolphins had the pick of Alabama safety Minkah Fitzpatrick all ready to go at No. 11 when owner Stephen Ross stepped in and implored his team to trade back, both to acquire more picks and to save money on the first-rounder. Ross’s football people talked him out of it, and the Dolphins went ahead with the Fitzpatrick pick . . ."

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...draft-picks/gGmTzilRT6Z7dhc4zzWDzK/story.html

    Notice nothing about Ross wanting Lamar Jackson or any specific player

    Then on May 8th, Hal Habib of the Palm Beach Post introduces the article to Miami fans

    "Two sentences about the Dolphins, buried deep in an NFL notes column in The Boston Globe, have caused all kinds of ripples around the league and South Florida, but nowhere should those ripples be actual waves more than in Davie.

    “A well-placed league source tells us that the Dolphins had the pick of Alabama safety Minkah Fitzpatrick all ready to go at No. 11 when owner Stephen Ross stepped in and implored his team to trade back, both to acquire more picks and to save money on the first-rounder,” The Globe reported over the weekend. “Ross’ football people talked him out of it, and the Dolphins went ahead with the Fitzpatrick pick.”

    The report came courtesy of Ben Volin. It carries weight because Volin is a respected pro football writer and formerly covered the Dolphins for The Post, so to him, this isn’t a faceless organization among the 31 rivals of the New England Patriots. Ben knows people here."

    Fair enough, but later in the article he adds

    "While we don’t know how steadfast Ross may have been against Fitzpatrick, it’s clear that Grier or Tannenbaum or more likely both signed off on the choice.

    And that’s the crux of this.

    Ross remains convinced he scored a coup when he hired Gase. In Ross’ eyes, Gase paid dividends with a playoff berth in 2016, was dealt a lousy hand in 2017 and probably in 2018. (At least that’s according to oddsmakers, who are fooled by teams every year but get it right far more often than they get it wrong.)

    Word around the league is Fitzpatrick is one of the safest first-rounders and was the right move for the Dolphins in that situation. If Ross was hoping for a sexier pick, a spark plug for the offense who could help fill seats — and, let’s be honest, a quarterback for the future — it’s understandable."

    http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachp...h-fitzpatrick-was-right-pick-now-on-hot-seat/

    What?!!! All of a sudden he slips in Ross wanting a QB even though there is zero mention in the Volin article about wanting a QB let alone Lamar Jackson.

    An that's how these rumors start. The media always pushes the get a new QB story because that gets the most responses and they arent in the business of telling the truth but rather selling their advertising

    Additionally Ross kind of verified that he asked Tannenbaum about trading back. I couldnt find the article but he basically said that it had nothing to do with saving money and it was a suggestion to be creative with the draft. No mention of Quarterbacks just basically saying that if you dont think Minkah is a game changer then consider moving down and getting extra picks
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  31. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Dion Jordan actually played well for Seattle last year. Some players have to be fired from their first job before the light goes on
     
  32. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Oh he played decently for another team? How enlightening for our front office "experts" I am sure. Definitely worth the picks to trade up and get him!
     
  33. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    When they play well for other teams that's not an indictment of the GM. He actually gets praise. You have to look at the coaching staff or the individual not the front office for those
     
  34. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The same coaching staff the GM/FO hires?

    Look, the experts are experts sure. But the amount of busts indicate that to a large degree, **** is a crapshoot. You want to argue Jordan, fine - there are plenty of other names to choose from across the NFL and Miami specifically.

    Do I trust Ross to put together a complete team? No. Do I think Ross preferring Jackson (hypothetically as you note) and having to be talked out of it is somehow absurd? Not at all. Do I think Ross having some input on finances in the draft is absurd? Not at all.
     

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