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Tomorrow Defines the Season for Gase/Tannehll

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Nov 24, 2018.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    No, there shouldn't be any expectations except a W. I don't care if he's 18 for 47 with three picks....as long as he wins it in the 4th quarter then I'm still on board with our game-plan. But if he's 22 for 28 with 2 TD's/0 picks in a loss, I'm going to be critical of the team regardless of who's at fault. My judgement will be of Gase though...not Tannehill.
     
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  2. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    Backing up to this comment, his term as a Dolphin has already been defined. Definitely good when healthy, which hasn't been an issue until recently, but not exceptional in any way. He always folds under pressure.
     
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  3. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I dont like the term excuses. There are two ways to evaluate anything in life really.

    A) You see poor results and discard the entire project to start over. This can cost you money/resources but if you get it right can save time potentially.

    B) You see poor results, but rather than throw the item out you want to see WHY it wasnt working. Perhaps it can be fixed at a much lesser cost than starting entirely over, but you run the risk of fixing the unsalvageable.

    There are good and bad aspects to both approaches. I'm kind of tired of seeing two groups of people who simply can't understand its a differrence of life perspective not right vs wrong.

    Also not so much aimed at you personally but just the situation as a whole.
     
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  4. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    That's not the distinction you should be making because saying we need a new QB (or even coach) could fit into either.

    The real issue here is whether this is another example people holding onto an investment longer than they should, hoping that someday it will turn around. I simply like to cut losses earlier than many others here. Held the same opinion with Sparano (before my time on this board), Philbin and of course Tannehill (goes way back to at least 2015) and now Gase.

    And while it's true there are many ways to succeed, my view isn't just pulled out of thin air. With Tannehill I've presented stats such as performance of starting QB's based on years in the league, age, etc.., and w.r.t Gase I've looked at how early most HoF coaches or most winning coaches (over longer periods of time) start their winning streak. Point is.. there actually is a "best" answer to the question of when one should cut even if no one has produced an accurate enough model to truly answer that question.
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's a good analogy and it certainly applies to Tannehill. He's been our QB1 for seven seasons (five on the field) under four different coaches (including Campbell). Is this the case of needing some more tweaking (Plan B) or should we discard him and start over (Plan A)? And how do we assign value to each of the variables (injuries, hurricanes, no bye, bad line at times, lack of receivers, defensive struggles, etc.)?

    My problem is that if you dig too deep in the data trying to quantify each variable, you often miss what's right in front of your nose. We've been an average team with Ryan Tannehill at the helm and that's not a bad thing...Cleveland or San Fran would love to be average once again. The question here isn't if RT is good enough to start....we already have the answer there. Yes, he's worlds better than Cutler, Moore or Osweiler long term. But is he good enough to win a championship with?

    At the end of the day, it really is that simple. We have one goal every year and we haven't come close in a very long time. While a lot of that isn't on Tannehill, at some point you have to make a clear cut decision (Plan A) and cut your losses. I personally think that time is right now...or at least in the very near future if RT doesn't have a few breakout games.

    If we go back to a scientific approach, then we have to ask- can we find someone better than Tannehill? Now we've hit another wall because the answer is probably no. He's going to out-perform any rookie we bring in next season. So what's the answer? Cut him and start over? Stick it out and keep building around him? We're right back to where we started.
     
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  6. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    This is my point exactly.

    Before I even go further Ill state my view. We should draft a QB to compete with Tannehill just based off injury concerns alone. Whether he's good enough or not doesn't matter if he is constantly on the bench.

    Anyway, to you those stats mean something and that is fine. However those stats aren't just dependent on the QB but also the team around them. This creates a problem where its not possible to quantify what success each player would have in the situation of any other.

    Of course you expect certain guys will perform no matter what and Tannehill just isn't that guy honestly. There are only a small handful of those guys at any given time. If people think he is that guy they are a little crazy.

    As far as Gase goes....I dont think 3 seasons is long enough for any statistical analysis. Im lukewarm on him honestly but I dont believe there is enough data yet to judge him that way.

    Like I said, draft a QB and hope he outperforms Tannehill. It also gives the luxury of raising the QB in the system while Tannehill is evaluated.

    Id also like to say I think its pointless to start over if you are unsure what mistake you made. You need a clear vision of how to not repeat whatever mistake you made or it just becomes a crapshoot.
     
  7. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    The draft is to a large degree a crapshoot (same with finding a new coach). No one is smart enough to pinpoint what went wrong in an evaluation, learn from it, and then become highly accurate in predicting who will be the next franchise QB or great coach.

    So while what you say is true in many endeavors (certainly true in science), it really doesn't apply to the problem at hand. "Crapshoot" is part of the process here. You just have to keep trying until you succeed, even if you never identify what went wrong.
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree. To take it a step further though, we do know what went wrong in this case- Tannehill just didn't fully develop into who we thought he was. He's had some unbelievable moments where he certainly looked like the guy...but even after 7 years we can't identify what's missing and/or how to fix it.

    The truth is that we can guess all day long but that's not going to give us ANY HELP AT ALL with the next QB we draft.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  9. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Makes a huge difference who’s available via free agency and draft. I’m not for paying Ryan a top level contract again because I don’t believe he is worth it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  10. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I just think it’s basically the normal college wide receiver converted to QB thing :) No one considered him a top talent but more of a project. We only took him because our Offensive coordinator coached him in college.
     
  11. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Carroo bittcchhes!!!!!!
     
  12. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    So another loss with the magnificent Tannehill and Gase. You said this game would speak volumes about about their future and it did. Gase can say 1000 times he’s behind Tannehill but he doesn’t trust him to win the game. He had two opportunities in the forth to donjust that let his franchise QB make some throws to win the game and he elected to be safe and run BOTH times. Gase is stupid and thinks he outsmarts people with his **** play calling. I don’t know if Ryan can get any better but with Gase I know he won’t.

    Gase gets another year regardless but I believe both should be relieved of their duties in Miami.

    We’re not even in the playoff hunt now 3 games behind the pats, and 2-3 behind decent teams. I sincerely hope this teams quits on Gase and we do t win another game.

    It does is Zero good to win any more games.

    I get you all will say win win win no matter what, but it’s over there isn’t a positive reason to win.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    So! Game over. For all practical purposes season over and no playoffs.

    I think that does it for me. Done not just with Tannehill but also with Gase. Gase is absolutely NO offensive guru (quite the opposite actually) with some terrible play calling, and you can't rely on Tannehill to win the game for you when it counts (not even when we're UP in the 4th lol).

    Well.. go ahead guys.. pile on with the excuses! But I'm done.
     
  14. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    Breaking News:

    Adam Gase is still a dumb ***.
     
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  15. Dolphan24

    Dolphan24 Active Member

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    There are no excuses for what we witnessed at the end of that game. That was absolutely atrocious playcalling. Gase didn’t even try to get a first down on the last drive.
     
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  16. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Gase's play calling has been crap for a long time. He's on track to be the first Dolphins HC with below average rankings in BOTH offense and defense for an unheard of 3 years in a row. No excuses there either (though you'll hear a bunch).

    Time to clean house.
     
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  17. Dolphan24

    Dolphan24 Active Member

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    Sadly clearly the team has talent it’s being wasted.
     
  18. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Look, y'all can blame Gase all you want. Go right ahead. But anyone pinning this loss on Tannehill in any way needs to sit down.
     
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  19. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    That was some horrible playcalling the last 8 minutes. Don't know what Gase was doing.
     
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  20. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Well....We got one of the four Tannehills today....Really really good Tannehill up until the 4th quarter was the one we got today. Definitely made the game interesting and it looked like we had it for a minute, but.....4th quarter Tannehill gonna do....What 4th quarter Tannehill does.
     
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  21. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
  22. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Not pinning anything on him just when your coach doesn’t have confidence in you when the game is on the line well that speaks volumes about his abilities in the coaches eyes. Both need to go
     
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  23. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    If we can't trust the coach's decision making, then why should we believe he was right for not having confidence in Tannehill?
     
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  24. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I agree I said I’m not sure if he can ever become who we needed him to be, as I believe Gase has the luxury of Peyton Manning and a one year wonder in cutler.

    Regardless we cannot sign him to a 90-120million dollar contract. Time to move on right or wrong
     
  25. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Tannehill couldn't even get us a 1st down in the 4th quarter, up by 7 points. He had two opportunities, passes on 1st and 2nd down, both incomplete. I think it's fair to ask a "franchise QB" (lol..) to be able to help close a game out. Tannehill had his opportunity and blew it.

    So yeah he was efficient first 3 quarters, but once again can't be relied on to win the game for you.
     
  26. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    If those two passes are enough for you to believe that, then there's nothing I can say. Good night, bro.
     
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  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I think my posts in this thread make clear my opinion on Tannehill is based on his entire career. And yes, have a good night.
     
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  28. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Blame him? I wouldn't go that far.

    Tannehill is clearly a better QB than The Abrockalypse (it's not even close), but where was he in the 4th quarter when the game mattered? There were also what - two dropped INT's in this game and ball he left short which Caroo made a hell of an athletic play on that accounted for 75 of his 204 yards (as well as 1 of his 2 TD's).

    The kid at this point is nothing more than a middling game manager and someone who needs a top shelf back to carry the offense. He can look efficient and at times stellar, but he's not a closer ..... never has been. For all the relentless love Gase has shown him in the media even he still doesn't trust him. I'm sure some of that has to do with managing his injury, but if that's the case he should not have been on the field. No excuses laying down like that when they got the ball back tied 24-24.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  29. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Welcome to life on thephins.com. When luck throws a fifty fifty ball to a receiver completely covered by Minkah it's considered a great throw. When Tannehill throws a fifty fifty ball to Carroo so that he can make a play it's called luck
     
  30. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    A 50/50 ball isn't when you have your man beat and you have to stop to come back to the ball because it was under-thrown.
     
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    If luck had then that ball, or Brady, or Rodgers, heck, or Osweiler, everyone would be talking about a great play where he trusted his receiver to make a play.
     
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  32. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Again, you "trust" your guy to make a play when you're lobbing it into the endzone or on a fade. You're not "trusting" a guy to make a play when you can't hit a streaking open receiver - that's an underthrow and one misplayed by the corner I might add.
     
  33. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    To his credit he got popped as he released it.
     
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  34. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    If he did then I can't blame him.
     
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  35. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    To be fair (not sure why I'd want to do that), Stills dropped that pass on 2nd and 10 with about 4 minutes left. If he caught that one, we likely won the ballgame since we had some field position to run the football and play the short pass game. That was the last really aggressive play of the entire ballgame though...the rest was safe garbage.

    It's hard to look at today's loss and say, "It was Tannehill." 68% completions, 2 TD's, 119.4 rating. It was a solid return and even when he messed up (like trying to hand off to Drake on his left when the whole team was going right), he reacted quickly and made a play out of his goof up. Gase just went way too conservative on those final drives and it cost us.

    So if today told us anything, it's that Tannehill could still be the guy, but Gase probably isn't. We had the right game plan and everything...we just couldn't finish because he didn't trust his QB.
     
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  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    LMAO, I thought the exact same thing when it happened. RT also got robbed on that deep pass to Stills- beautiful throw and beautiful play by the safety coming over and saving the day.

    Slight change of topic- Carroo has been balling the past few weeks! He's dropped a few overall but the kid is playing with a lot of attitude. I think he makes the lineup next season.
     
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  37. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Simply untrue. Not one person (including myself) said anything about any other QB's getting away with balls like that sans criticism.

    It's just blatant deflective sarcasm.
     
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  38. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    LOL, I'm confused.....the announcers said it. Props to Luck for his 50/50 ball, but Tannehill got lucky and probably shouldn't have thrown that TD pass.
     
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  39. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Upon reflection I think what tannenbaum needs to do this off-season is tell Gase he needs to give up the playcalling. In return Ross should agree to spend the money for a veteran defensive coordinator (My understanding is Gase wanted a vet DC but Ross didn't want to spend the money after Joseph left for a head coaching gig) I like the foundation Gase has built in three short years and feel he just needs a healthy season to have it all come to fruition but the playcalling is too much for him and Burke comes close to acceptable but there are too many breakdowns on his defense
     
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  40. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     

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