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Tomorrow Defines the Season for Gase/Tannehll

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Nov 24, 2018.

  1. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Lol.

    Nah. Im done with blowing it up and starting over. We have enough pieces in place. We just need to tweak some things
     
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  2. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I put far more blame on this loss on the defense. The 4th quarter was just horrible. Then we had the stupid late hit on Luck in tne first half turning a 4th down into a 1st down, giving them the opportunity for a TD. Xavien’s two interceptions were nice, but they were on end of half bombs so they didn’t really move the needle much for us.

    Having said all that I am on board with you on this. Gase had several opportunities to close out the match and his playcalling was atrocious on all of them. Tannehill is good enough to win provided other players do their jobs, but he isn’t good enough to be the difference maker. At this point I can’t trust Gase to call a 10 or 12 + play drive to slowly work our way down the field when we need to do it. I can’t trust Tannehill to execute that drive because if someone else screws up once it probably causes the drive to fall apart.
     
  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    While the defense was bad in the fourth, I still find it hard to blame them, they forced three turnovers and the offense did not score any points off of them. If the offense was doing its job, the game would have been totally out of reach in the 4th.
     
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  4. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Let me ask you guys, how would you feel about Gase/Tannehill today if we would have won that game?
     
  5. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    My view on Tannehill was set already: average and needs replacement because you can't rely on him to win the game. That's based on his entire career and nothing that happened yesterday or in the next few games will change that.

    As I said earlier though, I'd have been fine with Gase had he taken us to the playoffs. Otherwise no, based on the pathetic production on both offense and defense during his entire tenure.
     
  6. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    And who is the leader of this offense, and offensive guru who I'm supposed to believe is on par with McVay, Nagy, Shannahan and Reich's of the world.
     
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  7. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    It's amazing how long first impressions last. Time to change this once and for all. We have to all stop suggesting Gase is supposedly an "offensive guru" or "QB whisperer" or something else that's inaccurate. Gase is just a bad offensive coach period. Check these stats out:
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GaseAd0.htm

    With Peyton Manning his offense ranked 1st and 2nd by points in 2013 and 2014 (that was the "first impression"). Then, without an elite QB it ranked 23rd in Chicago, then 17th, 28th and 25th in Miami. In other words Gase is a below average offensive coach unless you give him an elite QB. THAT should be the narrative from now on.
     
  8. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I am disappointed, and I am slowing coming to that reality.
     
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  9. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    In all honesty how much offensive input did gase give manning? or how much does even Mcdaniels give brady? its easy to sit back and watch peyton or brady when they dont listen to you and win hahahah
     
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  10. Drizzy

    Drizzy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I hope you’re being sarcastic because the last time we actually blew it up was a decade ago. We’ve “tweaked” things here and there ever since, give the GM a new HC, that doesn’t work so we give the HC a new GM, same results, or we get a new DC, then a couple years later it’s a new OC. This team does actually need to fully clean house, absolutely no one deserves to keep their job.
     
  11. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    FO and coaching wise yeah. But for a replacement I'd want a guy who can work with the roster we have, improve it, get more out of guys - no ultra specific scheme garbage that we need 5 years to get in place and then sucks anyway.

    Look at how BB adapts to the talent. Sean Payton how he went from all-Brees to bringing in Kamara. How McVay turned Goff around. How Reid goes from Smith to Mahomes, how he utilizes unique talents.

    Obviously, I'd like to move in a new direction QB wise. The main issue will be a talent dearth. No Cousins in free agency, no quintet of first rounders. And if Herbert goes back to college, whose left? Drew Locke? Will Grier? Neither really excites at this point.
     
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  12. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Completely disagree. This team needs to stay relatively healthy next year and rebuild their defensive line. Maybe add a MLB. We have lost the 3rd and 5th most games to injury the last two years and will be in the top 10 this year probably. The team you're watching out there isn't the dolphins but rather the dolphins farm team. Two defensive linemen, a MLB, a CB and an lineman shouldn't be difficult to get between FA and the draft.

    The tricky part for me is we have to get Gase to give up the playcalling and I would like a new defensive coordinator who can not only scheme but coach up his players.

    Zero reason to blow it up
     
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  13. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Gase is NONE of those things.

    He is 100000% committed to his own ideologies and can't be talked off them. He'd rather sit and poor me about the roster not being up to snuff to run his offense.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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  14. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I have been on the keep Gase bandwagon. Mostly because I like the locker room he has built. I think he could be a really good HEAD COACH. But he is a really ****ty offensive coordinator and his stinginess has moved the needle to the firing side for me. This has been unacceptable from a NFL offensive play caller. What a pathetic display yesterday was. I am done. Gase gone, Tannehill eventually gone.
     
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  15. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Not saying I disagree, but I am curious. What was pathetic yesterday to you? The whole thing on offense or just the series or two where Gase defied logic? For me, I was disappointed in the offense overall, but that is because of RT. He has the skills to be so much more, but for someone who claims to be a competitor I just don't see it. He could have been grilling hot dogs on the sideline waiting for the offense's turn for all that it looked like it mattered to him. He's a good soldier, and does what the general wants, but he's not a leader.
     
  17. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t trust either one of them. I’ve seen Gase not deliver and I’ve seen too many times where RTH makes costly mistakes or doesn’t step up to win games. I’m ready to move on from both.
     
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  18. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    ya bad!!!!
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I've been saying for quite some time that a legitimate gripe with Gase is his ****ty playcalling.
     
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  20. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    And here's what kills me with him. Every game he has at least one or two drives that are brilliantly called. The drive before the 8 minute meltdown where we drive the field by using only our running backs in run and passing plays could not have been drawn up any better. It was absolute perfection. How do you follow that up with the exact opposite...the worst possible calls you could come up with. It's like Jekyll and Hyde with his playcalling
     
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  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    In response to my original post, I'll say that I saw the one combination that I didn't expect- Tannehill balled out and Gase didn't have the confidence to let him win the game. Even when RT screwed up yesterday, he was reacting quickly and making the most out of what he had....I did not see a rusty QB that needs time to adjust. The TD pass to Carroo was smart. The little touch pass to Drake was perfectly placed. The bomb to Stills was BARELY defended to keep 7 points off the board. And even when he messed up the play completely and tried to hand off on the wrong side, he ran the ball for a 9 yard gain.

    I don't want to be finished with Gase because he's done wonders with Tannehill the past few seasons. However, the excuse we heard for two years was wait until RT is back.....then we get him back, he plays a pretty solid 1st game, and we don't even give him a chance to try and win it. What the hell happened to wait until RT gets back? The kid played hurt, did everything he was asked and lost the game on the bench.....we could have done that with Osweiler. If I'm Ryan Tannehill, I'm officially starting to doubt my coach and that's a very bad sign.

    I said that yesterday's game would define the season for me and it honestly did. Take the playbook from Gase and let Tannehill work his magic. If he throws 3 picks, so be it.....but don't make the kid lose sitting on the bench watching the D. I honestly would have had more confidence with Philbin or Sparano calling the 4th quarter yesterday....and don't even get me started on what Dan Campbell would have done.

    I still like Gase but my faith in him has almost vanished 100%. Meanwhile, my stock in Ryan Tannehill actually went up considerably yesterday.....it was the defining moment for both of them. I can't say Tannehill isn't the guy with a 120+ rating and consecutive run calls on 3rd and 10....there's absolutely no way to blame him for yesterday's loss.

    And for those of you who say "he almost threw two picks"...guess what? Luck did throw two picks, plus had another dropped and two fumbles by his team. The difference was that Luck was allowed to go win the game while we feared what might happen if we turn our franchise QB loose. That was coaching for both teams and Gase took the losing mentality....that's 100% on him.
     
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  22. thetylernator

    thetylernator You're as cold as ice, Officer Friendly.

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    You can count me out on Adam Gase, but I contend that Miami doesn't need a rebuild from top-to-bottom. When we see a ****ty product on the field, it's natural to think, "blow it up," and I've been there. However, there is a foundation of young talent on this team that we ought to be positive about going forward. Maybe our front office is secretly building a future winner, or maybe they've gotten lucky, but we have several blue-chip future Pro Bowlers and a handful of promising role players. With the right coaching staff and another solid draft class, there's no reason to think that we can't be contenders in 2019 and beyond.

    Xavien Howard, Minkah Fitzpatrick, and Laremy Tunsil are future All-Pro's at their respective positions. Jerome Baker, Jesse Davis, Davon Godchaux, Albert Wilson, Kenyan Drake, Jason Sanders, and Matt Haack look like they'll be consistent contributors. Vincent Taylor, Bobby McCain, Torry McTyer, and Jakeem Grant are shaping up to be quality role-players.

    Then, there are a bunch of unknown. Does Luke Falk develop? Can Isaiah Ford make the leap? Is Mike Gesicki NFL-ready? Durham Smythe? Cornell Armstrong? Does Charles Harris turn the corner? Can Cordrea Tankersley rebound? Raekwon McMillan has shown flashes, but will he put it all together? At the very least, don't sleep on Kalen Ballage.

    The stories may be written in stone for our veterans, but I don't believe the future of any of those young guys are sealed yet. It's up to the right coach to dig for the talent that we know is there and find a way to utilize it. We can be great again, and we do have the foundation to get there.
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree- I think talent-wise we're on par with anyone (especially when healthy). And I believe that because I can't look at the Indy tape and can't say that our team was beaten. Yes, the defense did give up a lot in the 4th quarter but what do we expect against a Pro Bowl QB when our offensive drive lasted 32 seconds? We set them up to fail and we've done that a lot this season.

    I remember a 2016 interview where Gase said that Tannehill came to him in the 1st quarter and said, "We're not attacking the field enough. Let me shred their defense with my arm". Gase admitted that it took his QB to convince him to get more aggressive and that was the start of a six game win streak. And when I look back at yesterday, I ask myself...should Tannehill really have to go to the coach and plead his case for trying to win the ballgame? The answer is no, he shouldn't. But we lost because of it and something definitely has to change.
     
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  24. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I don't know that you can call for a new HC and not also expect the team to be blown up. It's possible that the new HC keeps most of the talent - but the mere fact of changing the leadership at the top means that the team might face wholesale changes due to a different approach/desire. If you call for a new HC then recognise the possibility of major changes all round.

    If Gase goes I will understand it, but the bigger question is who do you bring in instead?

    I think I might go grave-digging and see if I can find the thread talking about who everyone wanted when Philbin was ditched.
     
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  25. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I understand what you are saying, but I just don't see any difference maker intangibles in RT. He can manage the game ok, but it's not often he really makes anything happen when it counts. He could be a better QB. He should be better a better QB. However, we really don't know who is holding him back, himself or Gase.
     
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  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Well, we do know this....RT ended the day with a 119 rating and a 68% completion rate, 2 TD's and zero picks...which is great if the game didn't end in a loss. Stills dropped a rocket of a pass in the 4th quarter, but otherwise we didn't even try to move the ball with our quarterback. Yes, there was the bootleg where RT threw it away because of coverage/pressure. But we didn't do a thing on 3rd down and you can't give your QB 2 plays total in a full quarter to try and win.

    I don't believe in the "could have, should have" stuff. We can only judge Tannehill on what actually happened. Could RT have have thrown a pick six if we got ultra aggressive? Sure. Could he have thrown a TD pass or had an awesome drive instead? Sure. We don't know because we didn't do either though....and you can't fault Tannehill for that. What we do know is that he was playing through pain and throwing very crisp passes. Again, 68% completion rate and a nearly perfect afternoon....yet we ran it twice on 3rd and 10. There's nobody to blame but the coach.

    I'm just calling it like I see it- Tannehill could have won the game for us....or he could have lost it. We can't judge him on what we don't know though when we never gave the guy a real chance. I would rather see him fail than never be allowed to try at all...that's all I meant.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  27. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed on 98% RT did throw a few crisp balls in the first half (maybe threw them to hard and hurt his arm) nearly half his yards came from a lucky pass to Caroo that should have been picked if not for Caroo, with that said your right at least let RT fail, there's no reason why you think a rb is going to pick up 10 yards on 3rd and 10 when the colts pretty much stifled everything Miami did in the second half. Gase's ability to only call screens quick outs etc 98% of the time is unreal to me and i just don't get it honestly its frustrating when RT completes a strike down the middle to amendola, next 10 passes quick outs and bubble screens. He needs to come out with the truth does he not have faith in RT or is he really trying to play like a mid major ncaa team?
     
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  28. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I agree with that Gase should have let Tannehill try and get us out of the jam we were in. This game is a good example of why stats don't tell the whole story. Indy won because of Luck. He has those intangibles that I was saying RT lacks or should I say doesn't display often enough. Something else I find interesting is that Arians was gushing over the Colts and Luck. He didn't say much about Gase or Tannehill unless it was to question a play call. I got the impression he didn't think that much of either of them.
     
  29. Drizzy

    Drizzy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It was a tale of two halves for Ryan, he did all his damage in the first half, 2nd half he had like 25 passing yards.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
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  30. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    every game its like pulling teeth for any commentator to even find something positive about MIAMI im kind of glad im not the only one who sees it!!!
     
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  31. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    but in all honesty if you take away the ball to caroo and drake being drake (by the way has impressed the hell out of me) RT had a dismal 1st half too. When you throw nothing but bubble screens and quick outs in the first half what do good coaches do? they adjust they absolutely pressed and short covered everything in the second half everyone knows we don't throw it deep. Honestly i think the only reason the colts played us straight up in the first half was because we were coming off a bye week and thought we might have changed something.......we didn't!!!
     
  32. Makados10

    Makados10 Active Member

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    I dont think this game "defines" anything more than beating Chicago did. The season is an average of performances. Dolphins are a middle of the road and inconsistent team.
     
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  33. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
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  34. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Tannehill played a "managed" game. It was definitely better than anything Brock would've puked up there and the offense looked more functional.

    His stats don't tell the whole story though - one helluva athletic play by Caroo (of all people) is 37% of his yardage and half his TD's. Discounting dropped INT's by the Colts seems a bit naive IMO. I mean one of them was a clear path to a pick 6. Tannehill threw those balls, he just got lucky it didn't bite him in the ***.
     
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  35. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    A. He was hit on that throw.

    B. Every QB throws would-be picks every week.
     
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  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    As someone who wishes Tannehill would throw more passes like the one to Carroo, I am surprised by how many people are discounting it.

    That was a pure gunslinger Brett Farve type throw. Have it plenty of air to allow his reciever to make a play on that ball.
     
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  37. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Yeah, I see nothing wrong with it. Those are the types of catches that make NFL WR's famous and QB's look great. RT definitely winced when he threw it and the ball fluttered, however, and Carroo made a great adjustment and catch. IMO, a healthy RT would have dropped it right into Carroo's hands in stride....

    Where Carroo would have promptly dropped it. lol
     
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  38. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I agree with both points, but as to point B I believe every QB should be evaluated based on those bad plays rather than throw them out for everyone personally.

    Id also say not every QB nearly throws a pick 6 every game. There is a difference between a great defensive play and a near pick and a terrible read and near pick.

    Speaking generally not so much about Tannehill.
     
  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    WTF is this stuff? Pretty soon we'll just start taking away any passes over 15 yards because they were off target slightly.

    Even when Tannehill makes good plays people try to explain them away.
     
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  40. cna

    cna New Member

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    On that note, why aren't we running the ball more? It's been working of late.
     

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