Lots of talk, of course, about dumping Tannehill etc. after this year. However, the following needs to be considered - we have a number of starters who are unrestricted free agents this coming off-season. Ditching Ryan will lump us with dead cap space, further restricting Miami's ability to retain/bring in talent - not to mention the depth/upgrades we need in certain areas like the OL etc. Fantasy football (in the general sense), is okay, but the details matter a lot. Here'a a list, via Spotrak, of Miami FA's this coming year. Take a look and and maybe indicate who you want to keep and then consider who and what we might need next year. Note all of the following will either leave or need new contracts this year: Starting DE Wake Starting DE Hayes Starting RT James Starting OLB Anthony Starting RB Gore Backup LT Young Backup C Swanson Backup C Brendel Starting G Davis TE Derby WR Ford WR Carroo
Trading/cutting Tanny frees up $13 million in cap space. You can pay Howard at CB, and/or James at RT. Good young players you should want to keep on your team.
Stephone Anthony certainly isn't a starter, less than 20 snaps all year. traded a 5th for this bum, meanwhile the Lions give up a 5th and get a guy that could've actually helped us this year in Damon Harrison.
Love Wake, but let him go to a real contender in the twilight of his career. We've wasted his talents and career.
Cutting him doesn't restrict us from acquiring talent near as much as keeping him does. Of that list, cutting RT we could keep...James and Davis.
Cutting Ryan is one thing, but he also needs replacing. If that's a decent starter then we'll be paying for it.
Depends on your plan. A year of Fitzmagic/McCown while a rookie sits and learns? Fairly cheap (Jay Cutler cheap anyway). Even cheaper is letting Fales/Falk battle it out, and start the rookie week 10 or so if the season is lost. Is Tanny a decent starter at this point? If we were to sign a free agent QB with his history of the past three years, would you be excited? Would you expect a playoff run? Or would you be panicked about injuries and his performance in big games? Would you be okay paying that QB around $25 million/yr? Waiting till you have a certain upgrade to Tanny before making a move at QB is a really bad idea.
Probably see a restructure of Tanny in the off-season to move that cap hit, and wouldn't, be surprised if they draft a QB this year. Granted I think we will have to trade up to get one, but that seems to be the narrative the last couple years. From the pool of players listed I think It James is a probable sign as well as Davis. Maybe even Brendel. I would like to see Wake retire a Dilphin, but my feelings won't be hurt if he doesn't. You can cut the rest. Bring Gore back on one year deal if he still has desire to play.
Id keep James and thats about it. Love Wake but I just dont see us as a fit except at a very small salary.
Here's the problem there- Tannehill is an elite athlete. He has elite arm strength, elite vision and elite pre-snap reads. He also has an elite work ethic- coaches love him because he absorbs everything like a sponge and he's also a really good person. You'd want to shoot Jay Cutler if he showed up to take your daughter to prom, but you'd trust her and feel safe with Ryan Tannehill. You'll notice I just said "elite" a whole lot there....it sort of makes you wonder why RT isn't an elite QB. Personally, I believe he simply thinks too much in the pocket and tries to do too much. But that doesn't even really matter at this point because while he may not be the long-term guy, you're not going to find anyone to knock him off the depth chart. In practice he doesn't have to worry about getting slaughtered so he stands in there and looks like Johnny Unitas with perfect poise and confidence. Plain and simple, Ryan Tannehill will be our starting QB for 2019 and he'll probably be the starter for 2020 and 2021 as well. I don't love the idea but I do understand it- he's just the ultimate tease because he's elite in so many areas. As I said elsewhere though, I really think the problem is more Gase at this point than RT...the kid easily has enough talent to win a lot of ballgames. Now, maybe we part ways due to the injuries. I'd hate it but I'd understand that as well....and I'm definitely not saying I hope he gets hurt again. I'm a huge fan of his and love his loyalty, his talent, etc. But he will probably never get past those little things that keep him from dominating. He's this freaking close < > though from being one of the top QB's around.
If Tannehill is our starting QB in 2020, then we'll KNOW that the goal of this franchise is to be mediocre longer term. And I know you threw around the word "elite" a lot in your post, but whatever you think Tannehill is elite at, he's average as a QB (the whole package), which btw is all that really matters. Tannehill IS a problem.. try not to talk yourself into forgetting the last 7 years of him being only a tease. Gase is also a problem, we do agree on that.
No, I completely agree with you....he's the ULTIMATE tease because he does most things really well and a few things really badly. I just don't see anyone who would unseat him unless we traded for a very big name. If Gase stays (which is probable for next season) then I think RT is a lock regardless if we like it or not. But even going into 2020- who's the rookie that will outplay him in training camp? Fales? Falk? Someone from the 2020 draft? I just don't see it. Again, I 100% agree with your opinion....but I don't think he gets cut/traded unless he gets injured or has a few really bad games in weeks 16/17. As a Miami fan I can't bring myself to root for either of those things. Who knows though- maybe we finish 0-5 and Gase/RT are both given walking papers. I think a lot is still "in the air" over this December stretch.
We know Tannehill's not our solution so you don't give yourself the option to make him our solution. You either pay him backup QB money and keep him on the roster (then he has value) or you force the issue by getting rid of him. HC has to solve this problem without Tannehill.
He’s only signed through 2020. The theory that Tannehill will still be here in 2-3 years is insane to me. At this point I’d put money on him being gone next year.
Since the decision doesn't rest with us, I'm with Key. I would be very surprised if Gase did not return next year and if RT wasn't our starting QB. I can hope, but I just don't see our organization making any wholesale changes. I am curious, do you think that if they don’t make any changes it will erode the Dolphin fan base?
I don’t believe Tannehill has elite vision of the field, I actually think it’s a bit comparmentalized, I also don’t think he can grasp the concept of scanning, evading pressure and keeping plays alive, over the years when he has escaped the pocket its never done simultaneously while surveying, its usually after he goes through reads, then realizes his Azz is in trouble, and he then makes a move, most of the time, it’s to late, sometimes, he gets away, luckily sometimes, and then makes a throw running to his right or left, which he’s very good at. Never do you see Ryan scramble with a purpose of making a play, never do you see him consciously threaten a defense with his legs by dropping, feeling the pressure come, then finding a lane and running.. Over 6 years of play, that is a sign he does’nt multitask well..
That's already happening. Just look at this message board. Never seen a case where people didn't start the gameday thread until after the game started (or started by a fan of another team lol)! You also have posters who are calling it quits, though I'm pretty sure if and when we're relevant again they'll be back lol. But yeah there's definitely apathy setting in and not moving on from Tannehill is only going to create the impression we're fine with mediocrity. Something serious has to change or a lot more fans will start losing hope.
Again, this is not about how good/bad Tannehill is....it's about who we can sign that's better OR who's young/talented enough to groom into something better. Through all these conversations the past two years, not a single person has suggested a single QB that can do that AND was available to us (for instance, Mayfield was going to be a Brown regardless). It's fun to argue this stuff and 2nd guess our coaches/recruiters, but at the end of the day someone has to start game one in 2019. And if we dump RT, the only solid candidate is Luke Falk or David Fales. We KNOW Osweiler is not the guy and we're pretty confident that he'll out-shine Fales.
Yep no one started a thread last week until after Miami scored then boom two are up! It's frustrating to say the least watching this franchise nobody respects Miami and they are overall boring to watch no killer instinct. The rest of the outside world is not nearly as positive or forgiving as some here.
Quick question- let's say we finish the season 5-0 and Tannehill is a big part of that. Will you still feel the same way? I'm asking because if he follows suit, he'll have 1-2 AMAZING games, 1-2 average games and one horrible contest. That's always been the tease....he has moments where he looks like the best QB in the league. So if he does put 4-5 solid games together, will you still be on the trade/fire bandwagon? Or does the last 5 games still matter? For me...sadly....these next five games are everything for Gase and RT. I'm still squarely on the fence to see how Gase responds to last week.
I'm not going to be deceived by Tannehill anymore so no it doesn't matter to me how he finishes. "Tease" is correct.
One of the reasons I started this thread as I did was to try to be pragmatic in looking at the Dolphins next year. As I see things right now, the Dolphins have believed in Tannehill and gone through numerous set backs. Maybe they are thinking of moving on for whatever reason, maybe not. But if they are going to move on - and if we're going to consider that - it will only be for someone they believe in more than Tannehill. I'll briefly say that it's possible they will want to ditch his £13mill this next year and simply acquire a stop gap they don't believe in, and aim for a new QB in 2020 - but I can't see them agreeing to throw away a year to do that - I think it's more likely they'll hold onto Tannehill one more year and then get the new QB when the dead cap space in dropping Tannehill is less. So for me, they'll either acquire a QB they believe in for the future, or they'll keep Tannehill. I could be wrong but I don't think so right now. So, if I'm right, and the Dolphins have a 2019 QB they believe in over Tannehill, who could that be? Three options - someone on the roster, a veteran available via FA or trade, or a rookie in the draft. Taking them one at a time - someone on the roster? I doubt it. If we had someone like that I suspect they would have had a chance to show up while Tannehill was away. It's why they brought in Osweiler over there own picks. Faulk was a late addition you could argue didn't have time to learn Gase' offense, that's probably the best possibility, but I don't see it. They Dolphins have been playing around with backup QB's but I've seen now evidence that they've been seriously looking for a replacement for Ryan, nor that they believe in anyone they've got to become the starter. A veteran through trade or FA? Here are the TOP 2019 FA QBs according to Spotrac: Anyone believe the Dolphins and Gase look at that list and see their future QB, the man to replace Tannehill? I think they might kick a few tires - Bridgewater, Fitzpatrick, but injury and age will create doubt. There might be another backup QB there, but no long term answer. Maybe this is the sort of scenario we're looking at if the Dolphins do want to save $13 mill next year and they can get a great one or two year deal - but I think that idea is suspect if Tannehill is healthy. So what about trades? Well that gets more complicated, but here are the QB's most people feel might be up for trade this year: Eli Manning - Yeah, no. Blake Bortles - lol. Derek Carr - now he might be tempting to some (shout out to Philbin!) - but his price tag next year is in excess of $20 mill. That's not a money saving move, so if the Dolphins really want Carr then it means they really, really, want him. Not sure anyone would believe that though...anyone? Case Keenum - another high price tag, and far less to offer than Carr. Not happening - if the Broncos even move on from him. Jameis Winston - promising talent, off-field problems and since the Bucs picked up his 5th year option, he'll cost $20 mill. The Phins would have to love what they see in him to be $7mill worse off at QB and take the $13 mill dead space the year after. Not happening. Marcus Mariota - another young talent, but again, with a high price tag. If you make that move you want to commit to him. I don't see it. Safe to say, I don't see a veteran coming in long term. How about drafting a rookie? The Dolphins could keep Tannehill but draft a QB high and have him challenge Ryan, or sit back and 'learn'. This is maybe the most appealing of the options, and I do think the Dolphins will be drafting a QB this year, the only question is, how high? This year's draft class for QB's isn't generating much excitement. That could go two ways - it could mean that teams aren't high on the QB's and the Dolphins are able to wait for a QB they want to drop to them in the 2nd round, if not later. That might be a decent option. However, it could also mean that teams hungry for a QB over-reach to obtain a QB in the first round who otherwise isn't that great - and with all the other needs Miami has, and will have, that would not be a good thing. So the main question in the draft is, how much do you want to spend on a QB? Do you see the Tannehill replacement, the franchise QB, and you're willing to spend picks to trade up and get one? I personally can't see anyone I'd move up for, or even a QB I'd get in the first round - over some other players who will be there - nor one I think the Dolphins will want to spend a lot on. So while I think we could see a QB competition next year, I don't think - and I hope I'm right - the Dolphins will sell the farm to obtain a QB over other needs. TLDR - Bottom line - I think there'll be some rookie competition for Tannehill - and maybe a star will be born - but I don't see a healthy Tannehill getting cut, or a vet replacing him. At best, I see a young QB competing, or worse, no new QB's and the same scenario as this year. The turning point, IMO, will be 2020.
At a certain point, which I think we may reach this season (depending on how Tanny does the next five games), you are making moves to get a QB that MAY be better. Certainly a rookie would be much, MUCH cheaper, but they also come with a big dose of HOPE. You need to let go of the idea that any QB brought in is a CLEAR upgrade over Tanny, the potential that they might be will be enough. What I think happens is that Ross follows his usual pattern of giving a coach an extra year they don't deserve, then firing them halfway through a failed season. Now, Gase still has a chance to show something to end this season and that could be enough to justify him getting 2019 to get back to the playoffs. In that case he lives or dies with Tanny, with fans hoping it works out this time. Or Gase could approach Ross and say they need to draft a QB, and Gase needs a contract extension to have time to develop the kid. Ross might accept that rather than blowing it up again. That approach also gives the fans hope as they look to the new QB being the starter by 2020 or at some point in 2019. The idea that Tanny gets another big contract beyond 2019 seems the least realistic option at this time. I'd LOVE to be completely wrong about that. I'd love to see the Phins win five straight and get at least one playoff game to end 2018. I'd love to see things come together in 2019 with a winning record and playoff run.
If I'm drafting a QB in 2019, I'm not keeping Tanny around at his current price tag. I can get by with some combination of Fitzmagic/Fales/Falk/rookie QB next year. Guess what? I'd even draft ANOTHER QB in 2020 if I end up with a top 5 pick and have some doubts about the rookie QB of 2019 after working with him for a year. I'll take that extra cap space from cutting Tanny and lock up a good young player or two. If you tell me I can find the next Wentz/Goff/Mahomes, but it will cost me TWO first rounders and change? I pay that in a heartbeat. Swing for the fences and stop trying to be just good enough to make the playoffs every few years with a quick exit. If you decide you are too afraid of picking the wrong QB and wasting those picks, you are in the wrong business. You try until you find your QB. It's that important.
I don't disagree...any of those paths is possible. I just need to see a little more myself with RT and our 1st string offense (or what's left of it).
If you're confident about someone, sure, but I don't see who they'd see like that. And cutting Tannehill will leave $13 mill dead space the year after. Miami aren't in a great cap situation. I think the Dolphins believe enough in Tannehill to keep him around - since there's no one obviously better.
I get the feeling there's a restructure coming for Tannehill. He's going to want to stay in Miami with Gase because his familiarity with the system will be more important to his future contract than any "fresh start" he could have fighting for the starting job in a new system. Likewise, there are no obvious, immediate replacements for the Dolphins and as such it seems smarter to try to keep him for cheaper while working on his replacement through the draft. Similarly they won't be paying the oft-injured, under-performing QB as if he's Drew Brees. It's a win-win for both parties.
Sometimes you win by losing. Cutting Tannehill and moving on to a backup scrub may seem like a loss, but long term it's a win. We did the same thing to Suh this year and our defense isn't remarkably better or worse because of it. Tannehill's imminent departure will not impact very many games and our stagnant offense can't (at least statistically) get much worse with a guy like Bridgewater or even Fitzpatrick. Win by losing.
I don’t care what some say on here about the 2019 quarterback class sucks. We still need to draft a qb. And defense. Tannehill osweiller fales falk all suck. I live in washington. Falk is no pro. You cant win in todays nfl without a good quarterback. We dont have a good quarterback. Nothing to argue for me. Time to move on from all our crap qbs. Maybe keep falk and fales for cheap backups? You guys can show all the stupid stats you want. But tannehill still sucks. A new rookie at least gives hope. We need some hope. And no bridgewater or carr. Or any other trash from other teams.
