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Dolphins Plans for QB

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jan 25, 2019.

What Should the Dolphins do at QB?

  1. Ditch RT17 - Draft High this year - QB answer is?

    13 vote(s)
    19.1%
  2. Ditch RT17 - Aim for 2020 - QB answer is?

    21 vote(s)
    30.9%
  3. Ditch RT17 - Aim for 2021 - QB answer is?

    3 vote(s)
    4.4%
  4. Ditch RT17 - Draft first round QB every year until you find one.

    6 vote(s)
    8.8%
  5. Keep RT17 for 2019 - Aim for 2020 - QB answer is?

    9 vote(s)
    13.2%
  6. Keep RT17 for 2019 - Draft High this year - QB answer is?

    7 vote(s)
    10.3%
  7. Keep RT17 for 2019 - Aim for 2021- QB answer is?

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
  8. Keep RT17 for 2019 - Draft first round QB until you find one?

    7 vote(s)
    10.3%
  9. Keep RT17 and give him another shot - Draft low 2019, high only if doesn't work out.

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
  1. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    The Dolphins had the 8th ranked pass blocking OL in 2017. A year where Ryan was never on the field. The Dolphins OL looked at least average when Brock started last year.

    Coincidences? I personally do not think so.
     
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  2. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I think Brady helps the OL, too. No expert here, but I think all the great ones are hard to fool. Their ability to check the offense into a better play has got to help the OL.

    I am not sure if Tannehill has the ability to audible or if he even had permission or not, but my biggest beef with him is just going with what Gase dialed up. It probably was easy pickings for the defense because they probably had the protections figured out once we lined up.
     
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  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I think it's clear we had a bad OL and I think it's also clear to anyone who isn't blind that Tannehill has terrible pocket presence and made our OL look worse than it already was. Wish I could get pressure stats easily, but absent that we can look at sack% for the same OL with different QB's (minimum 100+ passing attempts) in the same year. This guy lists that data for 2000-2003:
    https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2003/fun-sacks-part-ii

    He doesn't give any summary stats so I'll do that. Leaving out the 3 cases where you had 3 different QB's with 100+ passes, you find that the average change in sack% from one QB to another, playing essentially behind the same OL, is a whopping 3.85%!!

    It just goes to show how much on average you can improve an "OL stat" (at least many have used sack% as an OL stat in previous debates) by changing the QB. One note here and a caution on using sack% as stat: mobile QB's tend to have high sack%, so you really want to separate discussion around sack% into pocket QB's and mobile QB's. The QB's with the lowest career sack% are pocket QB's with quick releases and good pocket presence, like Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Drew Brees and Tom Brady.
     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Oz was sacked 2x a game. Tannehill 3x a game. Cutler was the best at just under 2x a game. So, Tannehill was sacked more, but Cutler was just chucking the ball instead of holding it a split second longer to make a play cause he didn't want to take hits.
     
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  5. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    The line was bad, but Ryan and his shortcomings are why they looked putrid.

    It's the reason why we aren't keeping him and to this point nobody wants him for even Joe Flacco compensation. He CAN be very good in about 3-4 different schemes, problem is those schemes have QB's for the foreseeable future.

    Wish #17 the best of luck, but this book is closed.
     
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  6. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Why in God’s Name would you draft a QB in the first AND fifth round? That’s as desperate as mortgaging your home in hopes you’ll hit the Powerball and a waste of a draft pick.
     
  7. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    How is it a waste of draft pick? Are you expecting a starter in the 5th? a back up QB in the 5th is just as, if not more, valuable than a back up at any other position
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'd take neither. Jay Cutler had AWESOME pocket presence and it wouldn't have mattered if our line was good or bad....he didn't have the other tools to be successful. Osweiler has very good pocket presence.....and we get to the same conclusion. So let's not pretend that the one and only trait we seek in QB's is pocket presence and an average line- we were 2-5 under that recipe this season and 5-11 the year before.

    Option #2 is not an option at all....and we've never seen option #1 in Miami.

    Tannehill is good at everything but handling the pocket. And sure, that makes it easier to say we need someone who does that better, but that doesn't mean to assume that every QB out there can throw accurate bombs, have a high completion percentage, read the defense, throw passes on time, etc. QB's have dozens of skills and they also need intelligence, maturity, anticipation, etc that can't really be taught.
     
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  9. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Honestly it isn't the worst idea. You're taking that guy in the 5th to develop and be a backup, not compete for the starting job.

    If he impresses that is awesome and you have yourself trade bait or a quality backup. If not, no harm no foul.
     
  10. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    8th rated by whom? Cutler and Moore faced a ton of pressure all season long. As was said, both of them were just often content to throw the ball up for grabs or chuck it away rather than stand in there and try and make a play. The team threw 21 interceptions, and combined for a completion percentage south of 62.
     
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  11. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Oh man, so many times I would have loved to see Tanne chuck it away rather than stand there and take a shot, sometimes losing the ball.
     
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  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    He said 8th ranked RUN BLOCKING....which is a lot different from protecting the QB or pass blocking. Our special teams were the only one in the league to score a kickoff TD and a punt return TD, but that has nothing to do with pass blocking either. =)
     
  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    No he said pass blocking. Closest I can find is PFF where they ranked us 6th on that measure but 29th overall lol:
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-from-the-2017-nfl-season
     
  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Sure...but the fact is he was trying to make a play, something the other guys didn't do. So Tannehill gets criticized when he threw short dump offs cause if the pressure, but then he gets criticized for holding the ball too long trying to make a play. Cutler/Moore/Oz just chucked it when there was a hint of pressure cause they didn't want to get hit. One consistent in all this, across all QBs, was an oline that allowed way to much pressure.

    So, I'm by no means convinced that adding a better QB, if and when we're able to do that, will make any real difference if we have the same crappy play from our oline that we've seen for about the last 10 years.
     
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  15. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    A backup QB in the 5th round is a waste of a pick?

    In what world?
     
  16. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Bingo!
     
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  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think taking a guy in the 5th is actually not relying solely on a lottery ticket.
     
  18. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Well, sometimes when Moore would come in, he would certainly make more big plays, but regardless, I don't fault a man for hanging in there, but there were many times when he just didn't have the feel to do so and would just get hammered and sometimes lose the ball. Regardless of scrambling ability, it is those quick little nimble movements up and down, side to side within the pocket that is so vital and I think that is something he often lacked.
     
  19. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Pro football Focus.

    Also, OL play in today’s age is frankly BAD overall.

    These are real stats, not me trying to kick a QB while his stock is as low as it’s ever been.
     
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  20. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    The writing has been on the wall for years about this.

    I said it the past 2 offseasons. If we don’t run the football well? The Qb (no matter who he is) plays like a bum.

    Watch these games......when the Miami Dolphins have ran the ball? They have gotten good qb production overall.

    If we had a strong running game?? Then we wouldn’t be talking about cutting Ryan and taking a rookie. But here we are.
     
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  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Matt Moore was often a mad bomber. He'd make more big plays for sure, but his completion percentage was a lot lower, he rarely lead long drives, and he was often bailed out by his WRs - Stills most recently, and Brandon Marshall going way back. That is absolutely not the kind of QB that I want to try to build around either.
     
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  22. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Well, if OL play is lousy overall, then I think that a wonderful opprotunity for us, given that we're starting at rock bottom except for a good LT, is to focus on that first. Try to do what Dallas did and build a wonderful wall up front. And then once that is taken care of, move on from that point. We have nothing to lose, and it seems like the safest course of action. Get better than most of the other teams in one key area, and then we have an advantage for once!
     
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Get known for run blocking and freaking celebrate it like the Redskins with the Hogs. Attract the best oline players because they're ****ing gods in Miami.
     
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  24. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Exactly the blue print.

    3 of the final 4 teams this past year were ALL top 5 in running between the T (NE, NO, LAR)

    Even the dynamic pass catchers and QB in KC couldn’t put it all together in absence of Hunt.

    Rub the ball well? And it opens up your entire offensive capabilities.

    Most NFL guy’s get this, we just happen to had a head coach who thought it was irrelevant.
     
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  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Chad Forbes tweeting out that we have interest in Brissett...much better QB than Tannehill.
     
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  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Tell us more about your "rub the ball strategy." Seems pretty innovative and pushing the boundaries of the game.
     
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  27. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    There are a lot of things to like. Prototypical size, solid arm, and only just turned 25 years old. If he were a UFA, I'd absolutely be interested in signing him. But the Colts would likely want an arm and a leg in a trade.

    Now, a year from now he is a free agent, so at that point, maybe so.
     
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  28. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Don't we already have TWO back up quarterbacks on the roster? Now you want to draft a THIRD back up? :pity:
     
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  29. Simon

    Simon The Other English Simon Club Member

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    Yeah, look at the Redskins in 2012 - taking RG3 with the second overall pick, and then "wasting" a 4th Round pick on Kirk Cousins - what in God's Name were they doing??
     
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  30. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    And how often does this happen Simon? C'mon man, let's be realistic!!!!
     
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  31. Simon

    Simon The Other English Simon Club Member

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    The QB is such a crucial role in any franchise. Not getting the right QB can really hurt a team and hold them back - so why wouldn't you want to roll the dice more than once on such an important position. There's plenty of evidence of lower-round QB picks having success in the League...Foles, Prescott, Cousins, Wilson...
     
  32. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    If you look back at the times Ryan was successful - he was almost always the benefactor of a strong run game. It never worked in reverse. With him, we were never successful using the pass to set up the run because of his weak pocket mechanics and a sub-standard O-line.
     
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Do I really have to say it? Matt Moore was the BEST QB EVER! LOL, now we're blaming the QB for his receivers catching the ball?
     
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  34. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I’m thinking of hiring one of those banner planes to circle Davie calling for the Dolphins to bring back Matt Moore. You in? ;-)

    I wonder if he still has his porn stash? I used to rock one of those bad boys. Now that I am married I had to shave it off. Can’t be attracting unwanted attention, you know. ;-)
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
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  35. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Chad O’Shea on QB: Still in the evaluation process
    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/15/chad-oshea-on-qb-still-in-the-evaluation-process/
     
  36. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    One thing I do know is that they would have had more control over their playoff destiny had he been the backup this year and the narrative around this time "might" have changed.

    It's funny to think given Gase's clear lack of respect for the guy. Came back to bite him in the ***.
     
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  37. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Two years in a row really- I would have retired minutes after Cutler was signed (since Moore was promised the starting role that same day). I get that concussions were a legit worry but you don't make that promise and take it back hours later.
     
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  38. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    One day it just hit me.

    It needed to smack Adam Gase right between his crazy eyes.

    Not now though, hope he keeps the same philosophy in NY
     
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  39. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    "O’Shea, who previously served as the New England Patriots’ receivers coach, said he has developed a great deal of respect for Tannehill, who has led Miami to four victories over New England in six years.

    “Ryan has been a problem for us defensively in New England because of his athleticism — being able to be someone who can not only throw the ball, but extend plays,” O’Shea said, describing Tannehill’s strengths. “There are definitely some traits he has that are unique, maybe the next guy doesn’t have. He’s someone we always had a lot of respect for defensively.”

    Miami Dolphins new offensive coordinator Chad O'Shea says of a quarterback: "Obviously, leadership is very important. Work ethic.”

    O’Shea said Miami’s coaching staff is actively evaluating the roster they inherited and have been putting together a list of traits they need from every position.

    For the quarterbacks, O’Shea said he’s looking for intangibles.

    “Obviously, leadership is very important,” O’Shea said. “Work ethic.”"
     
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  40. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Watch - they'll sign LeVeon and not run the dude. They're prolly give carries to some ancient backup.
     

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