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Josh Rosen Thread (merged threads)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Apr 26, 2019.

  1. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Only so many touches to go around though. That at least appeals about Rosen, he will get his touches, nobody else on the roster to realistically challenge. It's all in his and the staff's hands now.
     
  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  3. Zigs

    Zigs Member

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  4. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Nice! That showed some real class!
     
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  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  7. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    To the video clip, and I know it was all just a PR thing probably recommended by his "people", but...that was the best thing he could've ever done. And, he came off as genuine and sincere.

    Did you also see the smile on his face when he said "and uh Miami..."? He's excited!

    Tellin' y'all, this kid could be the best prospect we've had at the position since #13.
     
  8. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Season Ticket Holder

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    Cards changed coaches. New coach was recruiting Murray since 10th grade. End of story
     
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  9. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That was an awesome video- and I actually reached out to the guy to offer him some help on monetizing his channel so he can do analysis full time.

    For those who didn't watch, he said Rosen was right there with Mayfield and other rookies overall, yet struggled behind a crap line and making reads at NFL speed. Several throws each game were late, several were incredible, and the rest his receivers just didn't do him any favors. Schemes and concepts were also horrible so there was blame to go around to everyone, plus he had 3 different coordinators that year. Basically a total **** show with a pretty good QB prospect who was developing on his own behind the NFL's worst line. Teams would rush 3, drop 8 and make him beat them...and they still sacked him 45 times.

    What does it all mean? Nothing really except that Rosen isn't proven. He has a cannon for an arm, never thinks to run, and he's still slow processing the field. Sometimes locks on his primary target and/or doesn't make it through his progressions before trying to muscle the ball to someone that's not open. Typical rookie stuff really...but the potential is certainly there. He may end up a cheap backup or an absolute steal....but it's really too soon to tell since the overall confidence simply wasn't there in 2018 (due to bad play/coaching all around).

    Note- those were Zac's opinions from the video, not mine. Just giving a quick summary for those who won't watch a 21 minute analysis.
     
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  11. Stunningly quality move by Grier and company to land this kid. Had we landed Rosen last year for the price of a 2nd and a 5th year, fins fans would be fapping in their trailers. He is an elite passer by all accounts and is the most skilled QB talent we have had here in 15 years. Clearly has some things to work on but so does everyone else his age at that position. He will easily out pace Darnold, Josh Allen, Haskins, and Jones in the coming years if the Dolphins can put the right pieces around him. The whole narrative that he is a problem or a prick is somewhere between exaggerated and completely contrived. His teammates in AZ liked him, his coaches spoke high of him, the video he just made, etc...who gives a chit if he had a Jacuzzi in his dorm or he said that Alabama football players were dumb, he wasn't wrong. He is white, a bit arrogant, cocky, highly intelligent - anyone with these qualities is going to be labeled elitist or arrogant these days. Kyler Murray comes across as a smug little chit with breathing problems and Haskins seems almost laconically autistic, but barely much was said about those two numpties.

    This was finally a ballsy move by the Fins. If he doesn't pan out in the next two years, then go all in for Lawrence. Tua is hardly all-world, Fromm has deficiencies, and hebert is barely in the discussion. We just signed a young, hopefully hungry, intelligent, gun-slinger for a small price and pennies on the dollar. The worst scenario is he never puts it together and we have a quality backup for half a decade. The best case is we just found a young, cheap elite passer who is much more sophisticated than Tanny.
     
  12. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Oh Joy. Another QB to be divisive over. One thing's for sure, this team really knows how to suck the joy out of me.

    If the Dolphins were a stable franchise that would be one thing - because that's what a reclamation needs to change the narrative.
     
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  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Only people who are divisive over this are Dolphin fans on this board.
     
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  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If this staff is so wrong about Rosen, why would you want them to pick a QB next year with higher draft capital?

    You either trust them or you don't. But isn't it better for them to try with less capital?

    FTR, I'm actually not defending the Rosen pick. I don't know if it will work or not?
     
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  15. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I like the analysis, even if I remain unsold on Rosen. It seems that from what he is saying is that the root cause of Rosen’s problems were coaching issues.
    - Poor play design
    - Playing scared and being slow to go through his reads. He points out that he has seen Rosen process and throw much faster in college than he did in the NFL. To me this is a sign that the coaching staff were telling him to prioritize avoiding risks.
    - Lack of help from the OL and WRs (outside of Larry Fitzgerald).

    If our coaching staff does their job then there is hope Rosen can be turned around.
     
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  16. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Because scouting isnt that cut and dry.

    Just because you take a player at position X and he doesnt work out it doesnt mean the next time you take a player at that position they will suck.

    I think we as fans feed too much into short periods of time and action and dont put enough stock into the fact these are living breathing individuals they are scouting where every player and situation is unique.

    I like the trade though.
     
  17. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Nice recap. I also liked his comparison with the others in the PICTURE below (sorry, I could have done that snipit better ). He's right in there with the other guys. In the long run, Rosen might end up being the 3rd qb of the group, but to me the difference will be because of the intangibles the other 2 qbs have. That said, there are things Rosen can do to even things up such as out working the other guys. IMO, preparation will be the key and if he really puts in the work it will help him process everything faster as well as offer some offensive variablilty that will give him the edge. I am confident that after what has happened his motivation will be at an all time high, but I also understand that it's going to take time. I liked what I saw in his video. If that is his true personality, he seems like a nice guy. I am excited to see what he is going to do.

    RosenComparison.PNG
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
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  18. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    IMO We just live in a day and age where a good story is worth more than the truth and production on paper is worth more than the context of a situation.

    I have no idea if he will succeed but if he doesnt it won't be because hes a headcase or something. Guy isnt Ryan Leaf.
     
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  19. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bingo.


    Peyton Manning got drafted by the Colts in '98 and struggled mightily that year in route to a 3-13 record. Last year the Jets, Bills and Browns went 4-12, 6-10 and 7-9 with their rookie QBs respectively.

    Records don't mean that much when looking at a rookie QB. It's whether that QB has the instincts to play the position and the tools to produce. Rosen has that stuff. He was a way better prospect coming out of college last year than Tannehill was in 2012 so I don't see how you can't be excited by this move given the crazy-low investment and the minimal costs salary-wise.

    At the very least, the Dolphins get to pay him back-up QB money for the next 3 years. That's a steal given him potential upside!


    The only concern is how this affects 2020. Many thought Miami would select a QB from that draft but I'm not sure I would take one if Rosen plays and looks really promising. Maybe Tua if he were available? But what about Fromm, Herbert or Love?

    It might end up being smarter to use all those picks and the $120 million in salary cap available to build around Rosen. We'll just have to see how things go. With a total lack of pass rush, we ought to give up a lot of points and as such we'll likely (1) lose a lot of games and (2) get to see a lot of what Rosen can do as the offense is forced to stay aggressive.

    Still, this is a way better situation than we had with Tannehill who was never going to be a great QB due to his internal limitations.

    Rosen has far fewer limitations. He's a way slicker prospect and we're still going to project to lose a lot. I think it's a win for people hungry for a QB as well as for those anxious to get to 2020.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
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  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The only thing that saved Josh Allen was his legs. As a throwing quarterback he was terrible.

    I was also very unimpressed with Sam Darnold.
     
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  21. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    It's easier to throw and process information "faster" in the Pac-12 because most of the defenses were either completely suspect or outright hot garbage.
     
  22. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    You're omitting the fact that he was no longer a "hot prospect coming out of college" when the Dolphins actually got him. He is now a QB with 1 year experience under his belt who's already developed bad habits and more than likely hears footsteps. That last part can't be argued after reading his stats throwing from a clean pocket.

    Regardless, if your explanation of his value is true - the Cardinals wouldn't quit on him after one season, not in a league where QB play is EVERYTHING. The Rosen situation is Occam's Razor. Fans are trying to make themselves feel better about it because of the compensation element. That part I sort've get, but Super Bowls aren't determined by value.
     
  23. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Who else matters? We're the ones who have to watch this damn franchise. You make your comment as if everyone else has some sterling reputation for predicting the future, especially in regards to franchise QB's.
     
  24. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Last I heard was that quarterback was the most important position on the field. That a good team does everything to make sure they have the quarterback.

    Now the Dolphins do something aggressive to get a quarterback to see if they can get a special one, they are doing it wrong.
     
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  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I make this comment because it is weird how divisive it is on this board, when in the outside world, most people think this is an amazing trade and that the Dolphins got great value.
     
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  26. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    ya'll are looking at this all wrong. This is the long con play. We are going after trevor lawrence. Fitzmagic plays this year, gets us a low pick, we trade that low pick for mid pick in 2020 and for 2021 draft capitol bc we have Rosen. Rosen plays 2020, does bad or good, if bad, then we get trevor, who is better than all the 2020 QBs.

    2020 draft is used on skill players and to shore up any holes in the lines that we may have missed. 2021 trevor lawrence and more skill positions.
     
  27. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I hope you're right - that would be masterful.
     
  28. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Aggressive? They waited for "value".
     
  29. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    If the pats would have done this the entire NFL would have been saying how smart they were that they managed to outsmart the entire NFL abd this is why the pats are champions.

    Miami makes the deal and half the community thinks it’s a bad move. LOL this was a HUGE steal and I’m excited to see if he can become a franchise QB with Miami!!!
     
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  30. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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  31. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    They took a risk and waited them out hoping no other team would outbid them at the last second. They played their hand perfectly and should be commended for getting him and an additional pick in next years draft!
     
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  32. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    [​IMG]
     
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, if he develops then it was the steal of the century in the NFL. I mean literally....a top 10 caliber player has never been traded after one season at any position. Even if he turns out to be an average NFL QB and the bridge we need for the next couple of seasons, it's a massive steal for the Fins.

    Now, what if he's dog-poo? It doesn't matter since we're paying him less than the average NFL 3rd string QB. He costs us $2M a season and we have to wait an extra year to use our 2nd rounder. Whoop-dee-doo. We got a potential franchise QB for free and there's really nothing else to talk about...it was a great trade whether he's awesome in a few seasons or completely stinks.

    The best news of all? We have him guaranteed for three seasons...which is plenty of time to know what we have. It was a brilliant move by Miami and they mitigated the costs with that earlier 2nd round trade. We ripped off two teams in that round and I can't imagine how anyone could complain about that.
     
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  34. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Bill Bellichick can **** his pants and the NFL will convince themselves it's a genius strategy followed by Matt Patricia angrily ****ting his pants the next week.

    I still don't really like the move myself, but I get why people do, especially national types.
     
  35. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  36. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  37. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    Why not, what would you have preferred happen?
     
  38. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So the Patriots really were in on Josh Rosen, per Barry Jackson:
    https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article229789499.html
    The idea that the Dolphins could have gotten Rosen for a 4th or whatever they offered the Cardinals was an absurd one. Below a certain price point and you're going to have teams like the Patriots, Chargers, etc. jumping in. Hell, you just saw the Saints trade a 3rd for Teddy Bridgewater.

    If anything, the Dolphins almost certainly were lucky- the timing, and general composition of the league right now meant that they really weren't out there competing directly with teams who had immediate needs- by the time the Cardinals had actually secured their guy, pretty much all of the immediate need teams were able to get a guy.
     
  39. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Not taken Rosen with that pick. Offer a 4th. If it's as absurd as DP suggests above, so be it and we move on with the plan we were executing.

    I get it, most people disagree and think it was shrewd or whatever, that's fine. And ****, if it works then all the better. I just didn't like it myself.
     
  40. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Absurd you're not going to get a top franchise QB who's 22 years of age for 6 million over the next three year with a 4th rounder. I'm sure the Dolphins tried to go lower rounds but at that point, if I was the Cardinals I would have walked away. Miami did what they needed to do and I'm happy a clam.

    If Miami is going to go the Patriots route with a team Rosen is a damn good fit. He's a true pocket passer with a great arm. Both teams needed this deal and it was a fair trade IMHO. Especially if we can keep him from going to NE as well. Brady is about out of gas and I don't want another Indy type situation where they went from 100 years of Manning right into another Franchise QB in Andrew Luck without suffering as we did! Let them look for a QB for 10-12 years.
     

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