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***The Official 2018-19 NBA Thread***

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Boik14, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    And, that is why we love Daryl Morey, lol. Chris Paul is not carrying his weight. Bye bye
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Nekias Duncan on the 5 Reasons podcast:

    "If Brandon Clarke is available at pick 13, you send the pick in before Adam Silver can sit down."

    Nekias eerily brings up everything I have about Clarke. I keep getting told by the others at 5R that he and I are the same person.
    • At worst the second best defender in the class.
    • Incredible finisher.
    • Good passer, a guy that can make passing reads off of short roll situations.
    • You don't like the arms, but he's an explosive athlete, great shot blocker despite lack of wing span.
    • Strong guy, can punch above his weight, switchable.
    • He's the best parts of Bam Adebayo, but he can actually finish non-dunk attempts.
    • Need the 3-point shot to develop but he shot relatively well from the line, and he has elite touch so it's not out of line to think he can be a good spot-up shooter, and that's really all he needs to do because he can do everything else.
    • Understands where the ageism comes from, but him transferring from SJSU skews the age argument.
    • Workout warrior, a guy that you really can trust.
    • He was a terrible shooter his first couple years at SJSU but reworked his jump shot, his free throw shooting, even recently in shooting drills his form is cleaner and his release point is a little higher, and again he has elite touch, which translates, especially for a guy that works as hard as he does.
    • If he irons out a few kinks with the jumper, which Nekias thinks he will, he's one of the most complete players in the class.
    • This class is such a crap shoot outside of Zion, Morant, and Barrett, it's hard to pass on a guy who plays the game and feels the game as well as Clarke does.
    He basically encapsulates it. I don't know how you pass on him. It makes no sense.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  3. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Any GM that would trade for Chris Paul at this point with that contract should be fired on the spot.
     
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  4. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Nekias is a really bright guy, and I often agree with him, but here I just see the Heat's situation differently. The argument that the class is a crap shoot, so taking a player who you know will be a solid contributor makes sense, but it's just not my mindset with this roster, currently.

    It does sound like the Heat like him, though, so if they take him I hope his shot develops, and he becomes a Draymond Green type player.
     
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  5. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Heat are certainly doing their homework on Kevin Porter. He's a guy that I said previously that they're either going to be put off by with his character and work ethic, or they're going to feel like their culture can turn him into a star. They're apparently working hard to find their answer. Not only are they bringing him to Miami for a visit, there's this:

     
  6. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    I agree. Suns and Lakers are interested, lol.
     
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  7. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    one thing ive learned...never underestimate the stupidity of GM's and ownership groups. Being a Knicks fan teaches you some messed up ****
     
  8. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Oh, if I were betting on it, I'd put my money on someone trading for him. It's just insane that any team would.
     
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  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's not the argument he was making. He was saying the draft is a crap shoot after Brandon Clarke. He's saying that Brandon Clarke is better than all those guys.
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This is the main reason I don't buy it, truth be told. I don't think the Heat view players like Kevin Porter as very likely to get better unless they develop a stellar work ethic.

    This happens in the NFL too. You spend a large amount of your time studying the bad eggs under the microscope to see whether they're somehow a victim of circumstance, or they really are weak in that area. It's all a matter of due diligence.

    But the team that takes Justise Winslow, Josh Richardon, and Bam Adebayo...doesn't seem like the team that takes Kevin Porter. The team that takes Michael Beasley could definitely take a Kevin Porter. But I think they regret that one.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think Rui Hachimura is a very Miami Heat type of prospect, personally.

    As Nekias said, his defense needs a lot of work.

    But he's such a passionate, high energy, high work ethic player, and the Miami Heat have inordinate success getting guys who had absolutely no idea how to play defense to suddenly become defensive stars.

    If the defense sucks because the player is uninterested, that's one thing. That's not really the case with Hachimura. So they have to think they could teach him.

    The problem is this rumor that he's already got a promise from a lottery team. But maybe the Heat were that lottery team. Ever think of that?
     
  12. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Brandon Clarke IS better than those guys. But personally, I don't believe his ceiling is as high.
     
  13. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That could be what they see in Porter, and that would leave them in the first column I spoke about. But this is a team that takes chances on players that are cast off because of different reasons, with some real success. I think they'll look at Porter and decide if they think it's a deep rooted problem that won't be fixed by his surroundings, or if it's an immature kid that when placed in the right environment will thrive. The Beasley experiment could turn them off from someone like this, but maybe they don't see them as the same.

    What's clear is they are doing their homework. They're doing as much work on him as anyone in the draft at this point. So there is at least some interest there.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Interesting.

    upload_2019-5-29_17-13-3.png
     

    Attached Files:

  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The problem with citing this is, I don't think they BUILD with those players. I think they add those players to what they've already built and they're mostly satellite players.

    And in fact, when they've turned some of those guys into core players (e.g. Hassan Whiteside, Dion Waiters)...they've ended up regretting it. Sorely.

    The guy they take here isn't going to be some satellite player. He's going to be a building block. And that's not going to be a Hassan Whiteside, Dion Waiters, James Johnson, or Chris Anderson.
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think you're putting too much on age, as if the concept of 'upside' is a univariate function of age.

    It's not. It's more complicated than that.

    You want to talk about upside? What is Brandon Clarke, with everything that he's already exceptional at doing, if you start having him shoot the ball more than he has and discover he's really good at it?

    I mean he's already exceptional at finishing around the rim, exceptional showing touch on runners, exceptional rebounder, exceptional on defense and blocking shots, really good at stealing the ball, a good passer, exceptional basketball IQ, exceptional jumper, exceptional agility for a 6'8" big man, exceptional timing (hence the blocks and rebounds), exceptional hands, etc.

    So what happens if the perceived ONE hole in his game turns out to not be a hole at all?

    That's upside.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  17. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm curious what player you think he becomes if he hits his upside. To me, it's Draymond Green if he really develops as a shooter and a ball handler. But that's if everything turns out as good as it can. You just don't see too many 6'8'' 210lb power players thriving in the NBA. On the other hand, when I look at Nassir Little, I can see the profile of Kawhi Leonard. When I look at Sekou Doumouya, I can see the profile of a Giannis. That obviously doesn't mean they will become that, but that's where I see their upside.

    To me, Clarke is probably going to be a good starting player, but never an all-star caliber player. I don't think he's ever going to be one of your three best players on a championship team. Part of that has to do with his age, but a lot of it has to do with his profile as a prospect. That's fine, if you're looking to add quality players to a good roster. If you are a roster starving for star power, though, I'd rather gamble on a guard or wing who may not be likely to get there, but has a chance. Again, that's just my line of thought.
     
  18. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know that this is true. Shaq was seen as an attitude problem, and a guy that had let himself go in LA. Hardaway and Mourning had their issues in Golden State and Charlotte respectively. Lamar Odom certainly had quite a few questions coming out of Rhode Island when Pat Riley developed his fascination with him. They tried their damndest to get Jimmy Butler last year after his issues in both Chicago and Minny.

    More recently, the Heat were lucky to have a building block like Wade, but you have to take talented foundational players where you can get them. I don't think they'll take a guy they see as a turd and hope their organization can fix him. But I think if they see some of these issues as something akin to a lack of maturity in a teenage kid, and feel he can grow out of it in the right surrounding, I don't think they'll shy away from that.
     
  19. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Draymond Green is exactly who I’m thinking of when I think about Clark, minus the character issues. And yes I think Draymond has character issues. I don’t know Draymonds combine numbers off the top of my head, but I don’t think he was testing better than John Wall on agility drills.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    And what exactly is the reason Brandon Clarke can't be a Kawhi Leonard? He's a hell of a lot closer to that than Nassir Little is. Why isn't he a Jimmy Butler? Doncic? Gallinari? Tatum? Gay? John Collins? Siakam? Millsap? Hell, based on his total package of skills I wouldn't even put it past him to be a Ben Simmons.

    With the NBA in the state it is, it really surprises me that people are still so incredibly boxed in on position prototypes.

    The reality is, he's just going to be Brandon Clarke. Because he does what he does really well, and so a team is going to use him on the court to do that. I really doubt they're going to have much trouble.

    It's like, ermagad I gotta find a way to use a 6'8" pogo stick player that blocks shots like Hassan Whiteside, has an incredibly soft touch, high basketball IQ, point guard speed and agility, good handle, good finish, high character, high work ethic, great jump timing, and great hands. How EVER will I do this!
     
  21. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In my opinion, he's nothing like those wing players. Offensively, he's a center in an undersized PF's body. That's not being boxed in to position prototypes, it's going off of his profile as a player. If you see it differently, more power to you. I don't see those comps at all, though. Siakam? Millsap? I can see that if his shot develops. I don't see Butler, Doncic, or Leonard at all. Gallinari's biggest strength is his shooting, and Clarke is much better at the other aspects of the game, so I don't see that either.

    Again, I'm not saying Clarke isn't a good player. I just see limited offensive upside, and really, that's not a controversial take in any way. Read damn near any scouting report on the guy, and you'll see the same. I remember having a similar debate about Willie Cauley-Stein where I just didn't think he was going to give you enough as an offensive player. I think Clarke has more to offer offensively around the basket, but like Cauley-Stein, I think his offensive limitations will keep him from ever being anything better than solid.
     
  22. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Game 1 is pick em now. I wasn’t expecting the line to move that way.

    Actually GSW +1. I don’t know why I use bovada when they consistently have the worst lines.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  23. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    GSW +1 should be good. They’re going to win this series in 5 or 6 imo. And the only reason I give Toronto a chance is because Kawhi is still one of the 3 best players on the planet. But the support is lacking for a series like this imo.
     
  24. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the Warriors win in 4 or 5, and I'm a little surprised that there seems to be a lot of people that think the series will be close. I could potentially see the Raptors winning tonight with GSW coming out a little rusty after the layoff, and the Raptors riding the high of the first Finals game in Canada. I still lean towards the Warriors finding a way to pull it out, though, and killing that momentum after one game.
     
  25. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Not that I care, but Warriors in 4. Sweep!!! Once again, Harden or LeBron are the only real challenges for this dynasty. The difference is LeBron played with 2 other all stars that year (Kyrie and Love). Harden had no all star help.

    If Kawhi can get this series to 7 games, I will admit ON THIS THREAD that Kawhi is in the same level as LeBron and Harden. Until then, Kawhi isn't that dude. Prove it by being the main guy going up against a dynasty.
     
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  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Willie Cauley-Stein hasn't trained on offensively but he's not really comparable to Brandon Clarke. I think comparing the two belies a misunderstanding about the concepts of development versus upside.

    WCS was an actual case for development, not just upside. His free throw shooting percentages in his first two years were 37% and 48%, and then went up to 61.7% in his last year as he worked on it. But even when that happened, his field goal percentage away from the rim only went from 37% to 39%. It was clear that he was going to be an at-the-rim finisher until/unless he developed a part of his game that was SHOWN to be weak.

    Even at San Jose State when Clarke's shot was still weak, before his transfer year when he completely reconstructed it, his shooting percentages were higher than WCS's at 41-45%. His free throw percentage was 56-57%. These are better than WCS even at the tail end of his college development.

    But then Clarke took his transfer year to work on his shot and as I've said many times, he came away with 53% shooting on 2-pointers away from the rim, and increased his free throw percentage to to 69.4%. The latter number is a lot better than WCS, respectable for an NBA player.

    And the former number is better pretty much every player out there being discussed for Miami's pick or in the 1st round (barring Darius Garland who played so few games we're literally only talking about 16 shots):
    • Darius Garland shot 56.2% on 2-pointers away from the rim (9 of 16)
    • Brandon Clarke shot 52.8% on 2-pointers away from the rim (65 of 123)
    • Grant Williams shot 52.3% on 2-pointers away from the rim (101 of 193)
    • Bruno Fernando shot 47.1% on 2-pointers away from the rim (49 of 104)
    • Zion Williamson shot 47.1% on 2-pointers away from the rim (24 of 51)
    • Tyler Herro shot 46.9% on 2-pointers away from the rim (69 of 147)
    • Rui Hachimura shot 45.1% on 2-pointers away from the rim (79 of 175)
    • PJ Washington shot 44.8% on 2-pointers away from the rim (69 of 154)
    • Bol Bol shot 44.6% on 2-pointers away from the rim (25 of 56)
    • De'Andre Hunter shot 42.8% on 2-pointers away from the rim (65 of 152)
    • Keldon Johnson shot 41.8% on 2-pointers away from the rim (59 of 141)
    • Cameron Johnson shot 41.5% on 2-pointers away from the rim (49 of 118)
    • Dylan Windler shot 41.1% on 2-pointers away from the rim (23 of 56)
    • Nickeil Alexander-Walker shot 40.7% on 2-pointers away from the rim (37 of 91)
    • Romeo Langford shot 40% on 2-pointers away from the rim (50 of 125)
    • Ja Morant shot 39.1% on 2-pointers away from the rim (36 of 92)
    • Jaxson Hayes shot 38.8% on 2-pointers away from the rim (19 of 49)
    • KZ Okpala shot 38.8% on 2-pointers away from the rim (45 of 116)
    • RJ Barrett shot 36.9% on 2-pointers away from the rim (72 of 195)
    • Mfiondu Kabengele shot 35.1% on 2-pointers away from the rim (33 of 94)
    • Coby White shot 34.8% on 2-pointers away from the rim (39 of 112)
    • Nassir Little shot 34.7% on 2-pointers away from the rim (35 of 101)
    • Jarrett Culver shot 33.9% on 2-pointers away from the rim (58 of 171)
    • Isaiah Roby shot 30.5% on 2-pointers away from the rim (25 of 82)
    • Kevin Porter Jr. shot 28.6% on 2-pointers away from the rim (10 of 35)
    • Cam Reddish shot 27.7% on 2-pointers away from the rim (23 of 83)
    • Talen Horton-Tucker shot 21.9% on 2-pointers away from the rim (23 of 105)
    The upside for Brandon Clarke lies not necessarily in his DEVELOPING a shot, because quite frankly the evidence indicates it's already there. The upside lies in his having the opportunity to show it.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  27. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    No reason he "Can't" but Kawhi wasn't born as great as he has become, his uncanny work ethic and the fact he was groomed by one of the best organizations in sports played a huge role in why he is talked about amongst the best in the world. Finding a player with Leonard's skill level is rare but not that rare, finding a player with his intangibles to go a long with that skill???

    Good Luck.
     
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  28. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    AS it stands I have Warriors in 5, I'm really anxious to see how Toronto defends Steph tonight.

    I just left the Aria yesterday and totally forgot to bet on Klay Thompson at +600 to be series MVP.....I think that bet has a ton of value.
     
  29. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Yeah, that's pretty good value. You should get on that.
     
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  30. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Fertitta(owner), Morey(gm), and Harden(star) have put everyone else in the organization on notice, lol. Everyone else got too comfortable. Chris Paul and Mike Dantoni claimed they were hungry for a championship...I sure couldn't tell this year. They left Harden out there by himself pretty much all year.

    No contract extensions. Everyone not named Harden is on the trade block. Harden turns 30 next year. Time to find him some real all star teammates to go at GSW.
     
  31. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    I hope that works out for y’all. I don’t see CP3 fetching too big a return. I don’t want to see Harden demanding a trade because he can’t get any help.
     
  32. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Chris Paul has the worst contract in sports. Ain’t nobody trading for that albatross.
     
  33. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Wonder what Pascal’s odds were??
     
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  34. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Theres so many worse contracts in the NBA alone, let alone the rest of pro sports...
     
  35. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, I know. But he’s got three years left at $40+ million a year. In 2021 and 2022 it will certainly be.
     
  36. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    I was too lazy to check his. I can’t sit here and pretend I would’ve taken that. I was curious about Kawhis though.

    Despite losing some change I like seeing Golden State lose. Siakam is a boss. I don’t remember the last time I saw a 3rd year player go that hard in the finals. Oh wait, yes i do.
     
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  37. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Doesn’t make CP3 any more tradable.
     
  38. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Id rather pay a has been like CP3 40m per then a Never-was like Nic Batum (has 2 years at 26m per) or injured John Wall (extension hasnt even kicked in, has 5 years total left). Thats just off the top of my head, im sure there are plenty of others
     
  39. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Im not advocating for a trade. His statement was its the worst contract in the league. Im pointing out, its not close. There are worse contracts and someone will take that deal
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I see all this talk about Chris Paul having the worst contract in basketball and it makes me pretty sure he and that contract are going to end up on the Heat. Just because.
     
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