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Ireland: Beck Had More Upside

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Georgia Fin, Aug 31, 2008.

  1. Brown42000

    Brown42000 Chillin

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    :pity:
     
  2. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Well said. As soon as I saw a big long post showing college stats I started chuckling. Good for Beck that he had a great college career at BYU. As soon as your NFL career starts the slate gets wiped clean. Those stats mean nothing now. He has to prove he can produce at this level.

    Getting back to the point of the thread. It was the right decision to keep Beck over McCown. For two reasons -

    1. Like Ireland said, Beck does have more upside. Nuff said.

    2. Chad Henne is our number 2 QB and our QB of the future. Probably. But he shouldn't just get that job by default. Having a John Beck on the roster that still might not have reached his potential will keep him playing at a high level. Competition breeds a better product.

    The only downside to keeping John Beck, and it's not a REAL downside is that these foolish John Beck vs. Chad Henne debates will continue and we will have to read all the threads this season and next season about how John Beck isn't getting a fair shot, John Beck should be the starter, John Beck is better because his completion percentage on third downs in the 2nd quarter in college was better than QB XYZ, I hate any QB not named Beck, those fumbles weren't Beck's fault, etc. etc.

    And those accusations aren't aimed at every John Beck fan, and I'm exaggerating slightly, but you get the idea. Deep down I kind of wanted John Beck to get a shot somewhere else just so we as fans could move on stop debating about John Beck.

    But this is the decision that was best for our football team so I'm on board!

    :hi5::knucks::up:
     
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  3. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Says who? You? Irelaned and Sparano havent said it. Havent heard Parcells say it. So who? Omar Kelly? Good one!!!!
     
  4. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But obviously the trio does and they are actually in charge, so they will give him a shot, they said so.
     
  5. Brown42000

    Brown42000 Chillin

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    How could you possibly know all of the guys mentioned above are high on Beck? Parcells and Co. were looking for a mid round draft pick but couldn't get one so they then decided to take whatever they could get for McCown which IMO was a good move. I can't believe you thew Jerry Jones name in there as most know is one of the best in the buisness when it comes to evaluating talent.:rolleyes:
     
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  6. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And we equally have had people that were so set on being right that every qb that didnt light the world on fire sucked and it was all on them. So touche
     
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  7. Brown42000

    Brown42000 Chillin

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    No thats my opinion on Beck.

    BTW your attempt at humor fails.
     
  8. Brown42000

    Brown42000 Chillin

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    Yeah obviously I mean they saw so much potential they were looking to deal him a few weeks ago.
     
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  9. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

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    Just a quick question. How many OTA's and practices did you attend to warrant passing that kind of judgment on JB?

    What we have in Miami as a coaching staff isn't exactly a touchy feely group. Obviously JB has something worth protecting or they would have canned him by now.

    You just don't give up on high draft picks after only 4 regular season games under the circumstances JB was exposed to.
     
  10. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nah wasnt being funny was being sarcastic. I dont get why you an others are so against believing they may see something that can be developed or at least waiting to see what happens. Obviously the Trio or the triage as I call them, saw enough potential that they decided to keep him around. Doesnt mean he will develop, but he may. We arent putting the eggs in his basket. we have Henne. so this venom to Beck being here and developed is amusing.
     
  11. Brown42000

    Brown42000 Chillin

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    I officially give up. I refuse to continue to repeat myself.
     
  12. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Simple: it's all either been reported on, or is very obvious just by listening to what these people are saying.

    Parcells: "But does he have balls?"
    Ireland, Sparano, Lee: the aforementioned upside quote that apparently has some of you guys in a tizzy.
    Cameron, Mueller: drafted him.
    Martz: reported to have been incensed when Detroit (Matt Millen) traded out from their spot ahead of us in the 2nd round of 2007, allowing Beck to fall to us at #40.
    Jerry Jones: reportedly offered a draft pick for Beck, was turned down by Parcells and Ireland.

    At this point, if you're denying the endorsements, it's because you don't want to believe them.

    Side note: is it not interesting that the two guys (Cameron, Martz) who run arguably the NFL's most demanding offense from both physical and mental aspects both coveted Beck as the guy to run that system?
     
  13. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    SO you know for fact they were trading him? And that they were trading him because they didnt believe he had anything? They couldnt have been trading him because they had CP and Ch and if they could get value for a young qb with upisde that could translate into another piece of the puzzle, it had to be because they didnt like him right? AFter all if was anything other than he sucked, your argument doesnt hold water. In the end they didnt trade him. If they didnt think he had upside, he would have been gone.

    You guys can deny all you want, you can say how you KNOW teh trio doesnt like Beck, but you have yet to bring anything concrete to the argument. Remember I am not arguing Beck will be a great qb, I dont know that he will, I just know he has talent and that as of now the trio liked him enough to keep him.

    Love affair? LOL fancy way of trying to deflect the argument. Oh its a love affair, now they can argue that instead of teh actual point. WHich is there is no risk involved with developing Beck along with henne, at worst you cut him next year, at best you increase his trade value or have another option in case Henne struggles.

    It is thye attitude of many that we dont know how good Beck can be. It is teh attitude of others, that we shouldnt find out because if they were wrong, teh ego couldnt take it. I respect peoples opinion that think he wont develop, he may not, it is the sheer staunchness that they refuse to acknowledge, noone truly knows what the team actually thinks, only that for now they thought enough to keep him.
     
  14. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol
     
  15. FiN.in.RI

    FiN.in.RI Paul pierced through..

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    We have a 3rd string QB named John Beck who has more upside than Josh McCown, excuse me while I go run the streets naked singing some Lite 105 love songs. I don't see how Parcells decision to keep Beck correlates to my indifference in whether said 3rd stringer is on the team or not and how that correlation, even if valid, negates trust in Parcells.
     
  16. FiN.in.RI

    FiN.in.RI Paul pierced through..

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    Its all conjecture. Show me something on the football field. That's what I go by. What I see w/my own eyes. No spreadsheet full of numbers will convince me of much till I see it on the field. The numbers will backup what I See, not the other way around.
     
  17. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I find it strange how you seem to think "upside" relates to McCown. Ireland only referenced McCown because he was asked why Beck was retained instead of McCown. If the question had been "Why was John Beck retained?" instead of "Why was John Beck retained over Josh McCown," the answer changes to "He has a lot of upside" from "He has more upside than McCown."

    You guys have fun. I'm done with the "talking to brick walls" act.
     
  18. FiN.in.RI

    FiN.in.RI Paul pierced through..

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    It does, they kept Beck over mcCown, therefore Beck has more upside than McCown for various reasons.

    HAHAHA :lol:

    Peace out!
     
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  19. Brown42000

    Brown42000 Chillin

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    :lol:

    Now I'm officially done with any thread that involves Beck.
     
  20. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Didnt Kevin Kolb also go before Beck?
     
  21. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    :lol: Outstanding!
     
  22. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    The Beckers don't get the obviously........
     
  23. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Philly traded up for Kolb. Not the point, Philly wasn't in the running for Beck. Martz wanted Beck at 34, just as he wanted (and successfully argued for) Calvin Johnson at #2. Millen instead agreed to a trade with the Bills. The Bills took Posluszny, and the Lions took Stanton at 43. All indications are that Millen would have taken Stanton even if Beck had still been on the board for whatever reason.
     
  24. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    we'll see how this season plays out, lots of football to be played and any of the 3 qbs on our roster could solidify the position for years with stellar play. BUT. as it sits now, we go into next spring training with pennington, henne, and beck. penny has expirience in this offense and will pick it up fast this season. henne and beck roll into next spring with one solid season in the same offense. should be an interesting competition. may the best qb win
     
  25. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Any chance that we as a group can stop throwing labels around and just have a discussion?
     
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  26. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Only when compared to you.
     
  27. dphins

    dphins New Member

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    I'm a huge Beck fan but looking back Trent Edwards should have been the pick there.
     
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  28. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    And if you think that Jeff and I did not work TOGETHER on this, and decide between the two of us, you're one of the few people I've fooled into thinking that Jeff is actually the GM by himself....

    signed:

    The real Bill Parcells

    :tongue2:
     
  29. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    What is their to discuss.

    I wanted to keep him and we did.I wanted him to be the 3rd string QB and he is.If you really want we can talk about how i was more right then the Beck hatters and Lovers, thats fine with me:hi5:

    Both sides were a lil off and a lil right thats why this crazy discussion won't end.

    Since last years, last PS game i've been saying Beck needs to sit for two years. Now it looks like that will happen as well.Coming from BYU to the NFL is a big jump, just ask Steve Young.Who played just as well as Beck his 1st few years.
     
  30. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Beckers? LOL too funny.
     
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  31. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

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    I had to give it a double take, since it's my sir name. :lol:
     
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  32. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I guess I don't get the problem with the labels. You are a Beck fan right? It's just like calling a Dolphin fan a Phinatic or Phinfan or something like that. I don't think it's meant to be derogatory.
     
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  33. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    I'm a Miami Dolphins fan and I support all of the players until they give me a reason not to. :up:

    The problem with labels is that it is being used in a derogatory way and that isn't what this site is about. For every innocent use of a label that a person could show me, I can show you 10 (some within this thread) that aren't used in such an innocent manner. There are other places for that, this site shouldn't be one of them.
     
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  34. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    I have to call BS on this.

    I think everyone knows exactly why labels like that are thrown into a discussion like this.

    The labels are used in an attempt to lessen the posters viewpoint by painting them as an irrational fan of said player.

    An irrational fan not able to consider the situation logically because of their blind fanhood of a player rather than a fan of the team who is looking at the Beck situation logically and considering the basic concept of player development.

    It's a weak and childish attempt to discredit a poster on the subject but an attempt nonetheless.
     
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  35. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    The problem with labels on message boards in general is that they tend to be divisive. Whatever level of contentiousness is involved in any discussion is increased. It becomes more one group vs. the other and less we're all Dolphin fans. I personally don't have a problem with them but that's just been my experience with labels.
     
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  36. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Some good points made. But I'd like to see a more objective approach to the anti-label sentiment. I've seen posts containing phrases like 'Beck Bashers' get all sorts of praise. Sometimes by moderators. I remember one such post specifically. Without digging it up, it said something to the effect of "Pretty up with all those words...you're still a beck hater". Aren't phrases like that equally deragotory? That's basically insinuating somebody dislikes a player because of a personal grudge or irrational hatred as opposed to not seeing any potential or talent.
     
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  37. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Excuse me...

    but don't we play the Jets this coming Sunday?

    Let's not quarrel with petty issues...
     
  38. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    I hate to keep singling adamprez out when it comes to this, not that this is a bad thing, but he is a great example of someone who isn't a fan of Beck but who is respectful of his fellow members. adam and I disagree on alot of things, but adam always brings his A game and always argues with facts without making his argument a personal one. I have the utmost respect for him and anyone that follows his lead when it comes to message board etiquette. :yes:
     
  39. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    If a player is on the Fins, should we all not be a fan and root for the guy?
     
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  40. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Of course and I think that's why somebody being criticized for 'hating' on a Dolphin player is more accepted or tolerated than somebody showing excessive love for a Dolphin player.
     

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