1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Drake Traded to Arizona for a 2020 Pick

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
     
    Irishman and tirty8 like this.
  2. thetylernator

    thetylernator You're as cold as ice, Officer Friendly.

    596
    724
    93
    Dec 31, 2014
    Nice trade. If I were the GM of another franchise, the most I'd have given for Drake is a 6th. A potential 5th--at the top of the draft, no less--is great value for a guy who a) lost his job, b) only has 8 games left on his contract, and c) wasn't coming back in 2020 anyway.

    I'm excited to see Mark Walton the rest of the year. He has an opportunity to make a strong case for an extension. Could be a nice complement to, say, Jonathan Taylor. :2guns:
     
  3. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    12,162
    5,057
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    What hole? He was very average..
     
  4. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    [​IMG]

    He was excellent at turnovers..
     
    Sceeto and Vertical Limit like this.
  5. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

    6,598
    3,323
    113
    Oct 1, 2018
    Third-round picks are unlikely to become long-term starters in the league, and that’s what has happened for Drake so far as well.
     
    texanphinatic and mlb1399 like this.
  6. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    I think you are over valuing draft picks.

    His contract does impact his value and I didnt account for that, but if he had years left I'd still say a 3rd.

    A fairly proven player with a specific skillset is basically what you're hoping to get in the 4th round on but with very minimal chance.

    IE You are hoping you can draft a player like Drake in that area if you need his skill set but arent guaranteed, where you just got him guaranteed.

    The contract is an issue.
     
  7. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

    1,325
    1,381
    113
    Jan 2, 2016
    I would be the first person to tell you that a 6th round pick has a very real chance of not making the team or having little more value that being a warm body with a low salary.

    Here is the deal. Drake was NOT coming back. The Dolphins floated him an extension offer, and he refused. He is not good enough to franchise. I am literally valuing a 6th rounder pick as better than nothing which is literally what we would have gotten for him had he finished the year out. We are not in a playoff run. We are not winning the Super Bowl. Whether or not Drake finishes the season is of no real consequence.

    I'll even toss something else at you. We have a 5, 6 that can be a 5, a 6, another 6, and a 7 that can be a 6. I would think it would be wise to try and package some of these picks together to move up into the 3rd or 4th round. I feel like the odds of finding a guy who sticks in these two rounds far exceeds the talent in the 6th round.
     
  8. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    12,162
    5,057
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    And thank god he didnt sign an extension... really, he has no value.. with the Jakeem Grant extension we have one bad contract too many..
     
  9. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    624
    790
    93
    Dec 31, 2018
    Costa Rica
    Well, lets be honest with ourselves, the reason Drake wasn't interested in an extension, the reason Minkah wanted out is because the team is tanking and true professional athletes want to play to win, on a team that is playing to win. When Ajayi was traded most posters were comfortable that Drake could take over without missing a beat, was more versatile, less injury prone. We're losing solid contributors when most will agree that the best way to build a team is through the draft.
     
  10. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Lions radio was going off about despising the concept of Drake in the 3-4 round range last week just FYI. They are talking more like going after Joe Mixon for a 2-3 rounder, not Drake. It was insane to think that was possible. Miami fans WILDLY overestimate Drake. He flashes, but lacks consistency.

    I'm curious what the criteria for the 5th is though. Plays? Touches? Yards? Playoff appearance?


    Anyway, RB is a pretty fungible position. Losing Drake is nothing. I would eye a high round RB in 2020 draft as a possibility, there are some really good ones coming out.
     
  11. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    I wish it was more than a 6th, conditional to a 5th. However, that's just me being greedy. I'd rather it be a straight up 5th to be honest. Guess it depends what the conditions are to take it from 6 to 5. At a minimum though, I felt he's worth a 5th.

    That being said, if it's true that he wasn't going to sign an extension to stay here then it's clear the player doesn't want to be here, and won't be here moving forward after this season. We're 0-6 with him on the roster, we apparently are content not fielding the most competitive roster to try and win games this season. So what's the point in keeping him?

    All that being said, I guess even if it ends up a 6th for Drake you can't really complain. He doesn't really help us this year, he's not a top player at his position, he's not really an every down back, he's been prone to fumbles, he lacks pass blocking abilities and he's been inconsistent. Top all that off with the fact the player is likely to walk away from the franchise at the end of the season so why wouldn't you take anything you can get for him? Something, is better than nothing. Especially when winning games this seasons isn't really a priority.

    Bottom line though, accumulating all these draft picks is only useful if you actually hit on players in the draft that can contribute. I kind of see this 5th or 6 though more as potential ammo to move up somewhere to pick a player we really like. Hell, if the early rounds fall the way we like I wouldn't even be opposed to flipping a 6 this year to someone for a 5 next year. I don't think we have that luxury available to us just yet with all the holes we need to fill, but it's all about draft picks IMO. Having them available & hitting on them. It's what allows the top teams to consistently be good. Build that pipeline of picks. Scout well. Draft well. Then you can build your team & manage your salary cap much easier.
     
  12. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    When he walks away from the team in the offseason he'll have cost you a third with nothing in return aside from average play and the odd highlight.

    At some point, you've got to have the foresight to realize if a player isn't going to stay, to move them for something before they're worth nothing. That's the scenario here to me. Don't worry what you paid for him in the draft, that's over and done with. If we missed that value, it is what it is now. What you need to look at is the current and future value. What's he doing for us now? Nothing. What's he worth after week 16? Nothing because he's apparently not interested in an extension. Therefore, what is he worth for the future? Well, the market says the answer to that is apparently a 6th/conditional 5th.

    No matter how you slice that, it's better than nothing. The hole was apparently going to be there regardless once the offseason rolled around. Would you rather have the roster hole with nothing in return, or the player who's not helping the team on the roster for the next 9-10 weeks with nothing in return? When in a rebuild, I know what I'm taking in regards to this particular player, and it's the draft pick all day long.
     
    Irishman and mlb1399 like this.
  13. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

    7,929
    4,404
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    I, for one, would love to know what there is about him that 2 successive coaching staffs didn't like and kept him under used. Must be something.

    But yeah, I always figured the best we could get for him was a 5th. Heck someone pointed out the other day that we only got a 4th for Ajayi the season after having 3 200 yard rushing games.
     
    Irishman, Mafioso and Puka-head like this.
  14. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

    7,929
    4,404
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    Honestly, anymore I think good running backs are a dime a dozen. You don't have to have a great one and in fact its probably wasted resources if you do. Find a good one that fits your system in the later rounds and grab him.
     
    Irishman and Sceeto like this.
  15. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

    8,605
    6,743
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Slightly left of center
    I think it's a mental issue. He's got the physical tools, don't think he has the right processor for the NFL.

    I really hope this opens the door for Gaskin to get some time on the field.
     
    Irishman and Tin Indian like this.
  16. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

    7,929
    4,404
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    It must be something mental or attitude wise, like Ajayi being stubborn and not wanting to listen.

    But yeah, I'd really like to see Gaskin on the field more.
     
    Irishman and Surfs Up 99 like this.
  17. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

    881
    829
    93
    Aug 28, 2008
    Maine
    I am very happy he is gone, the guy had no heart this year and didn't care to help the team out.
     
    Irishman and mlb1399 like this.
  18. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

    1,950
    1,785
    113
    May 5, 2016
    I don't know about the attitude part, but it did seem to me that he was like Ajayi in that he liked to bounce it outside a lot. Maybe the coaches had issues with that. I would like to see us add a different type of RB next time who in addition to being able to block and catch, has the beef to run it up the middle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
    Irishman and Tin Indian like this.
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    That's your opinion and you're perfectly welcome to it- but that's not reality in the NFL.

    Was Tunsil worth three 1st round picks? Maybe you'd say no- that's insane to pay that much. But a team that's a left tackle away from a deep playoff run may see that as a value. There are several teams who are desperate for a stud RB this late in the season and every single one of them watched the Miracle in Miami several times this morning. That's just the art of the deal...the front office is selling commodities and some are much better than others.

    Ultimately Drake went for a 5th/6th, mainly because he hasn't been starting for whatever reason. There's nothing insane for asking for more though...and you're also wrong about his expiring contract. If a team likes what they see then they can lock him down for several years this off-season....if they don't then they let him walk. It's a win-win either way in that situation.
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I don't know if it was a lack of heart or just a bad attitude- but he DEFINITELY has enough talent to be a feature back. The fact that two consecutive head coaches didn't use him that way sort of fills in the blanks...I'm happy that he's gone as well.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  21. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    I think ideally youd want a great RB on a rookie deal. That doesnt have to mean first rounder, it can be a third or fourth these days for a RB.
     
    Tin Indian likes this.
  22. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

    7,929
    4,404
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    I agree. I think that great running backs can be found in the middle to late rounds. I just think that investing too much in a running back in this day and age of pro football is a waste of resources.
     
  23. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    Oh I agree. It's a position you want to cycle rookie contracts through if possible.

    I will say a back like Ladanian Tomlinson, Barry Sanders, prime Adrian Peterson and so on are worth investing in but only if your finances allow it and you already have your QB/Defense in place. It's never a position to chase and throw money at.
     
    Irishman and Tin Indian like this.
  24. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

    7,929
    4,404
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    Yes. There are a few guys that come around every so often and if they fall in your lap great or maybe all you need is a running back, You can go after one then. Otherwise with the current rules it's just not worth it.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  25. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,820
    4,665
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    3 rushes, 47 yards and a TD for Drake, three days into his Arizona career. lol
     
    Irishman and resnor like this.
  26. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

    3,770
    1,500
    113
    Oct 25, 2010
    Maryland
    Lol Drake looks pretty good tonight. Our coaching and player development have been bottom 5 for 15 years
     
    resnor likes this.
  27. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    I'm not sure there is even currently a truly great back in the NFL.

    None of these guys can hold a candle to prime versions of Tomlinson, Peterson, Ssnders, even Ricky.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Drake has 70 yards and a TD in the first half. WTF has been going on in Miami? Sick and tired of players leaving here and playing well elsewhere.
     
    Hooligan and KeyFin like this.
  29. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,820
    4,665
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    And he's been there for 72 hours!
     
    resnor likes this.
  30. Mafioso

    Mafioso Air Force's #1 Phin Fan

    477
    304
    63
    Apr 7, 2010
    Anchorage, Alaska
    110 Rushing yds, 4 receptions for 52 yds, a Td and a 2 pt conversion...WTF is wrong with Miami that we cant get that production out of our own guys? Multiple different coaching staffs and yet he does that there and doesn't even know the names of the olinemen blocking for him.
     
    resnor likes this.
  31. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,696
    3,743
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Remember that Lamar Miller couldn’t buy a start here until literally every other back got hurt. Same thing happened with him, he showed a lot of flashes in limited action but the coaches held him out of games.
     
    Tin Indian and resnor like this.
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I don't understand it. Like, if we were getting production from these players, like other teams do, we wouldn't be terrible and need to tank. It certainly helps though, to be playing with Kyler Murray. Dude was pretty impressive to watch last night.
     
  33. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

    7,929
    4,404
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    You guys should not be shocked.

    1. Our oline is awful. The whole argument that it doesn't matter how good they are if you have a great this or a great that holds no water! Holes have to be opened and linemen need to be able to hold a block for 2.5 seconds. The game is played in the trenches and that is where they are won or lost. Not that AZ's line are a bunch of world beaters.

    2. We hardly gave the guy enough snaps. For whatever reason neither staff would play the guy and we should demand to know why. What did they not like about him. It was apparent he had talent so something must have turned them off about him.

    3. Clearly having a dynamic QB helps. The ability to have a guy that is a dual threat QB makes the defense have to respect that. That is also why I'm advocating a guy like Hurts over Tua. I won't be disappointed if we land Tua but I think if Hurts keeps developing as a passer as he has been he has more upside.

    You have to use the players you have to their strengths. Gesicki is a great example He is a pass catching TE and miserable at blocking. So what does Gase do? Keeps him into block and everyone wonders why the guy didn't have a good year last year. Use players to their strengths. Thats one of the reasons the Pats are always able to take players that have been marginal somewhere else and plugged them in and they look like world beaters. Most of those guys may have one or two things they do exceptionally well and the Pats may have a need at those one or two things. They bring them in and let them do what they are good at.

    We never do and thats why guys go elsewhere and look much better. We are constantly trying to shove square pegs in round holes and when they finally figure out they don't fit, they languish on the bench until they are finally let go or traded.
     
    Sceeto, Mafioso and resnor like this.
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Yeah, oline play was most definitely something I was thinking about last night. It definitely helps having a guy like Murray to keep the defense honest, but Drake had alot of space to run.
     
  35. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    IMO it's pretty simple really. In Drake's time here, first off... Adam Gase is an idiot. I think that's pretty well documented by now.

    Secondly, nobody feared our passing game with Tannehill & our OL & we have no WR that really draws coverage attention. That's where you're putting yourself into a spot where you aren't going to get much production from your RB's. Drake isn't the best pass blocker... you could almost assume if he was on the field, he's touching the ball somehow.

    I think we all saw he's got some ability as a back, he can be an explosive player if you can get him space to work. Arizona has the pieces (minus a real effective OL) to help create opportunities for him that we couldn't. Their offensive system will be a better fit for him as well.

    As for the team not keeping good players etc. etc. The guy is a average to good RB in this league in a contract year. We're rebuilding. We offered him an extension apparently that he ignored. We weren't in his plans, so what do you do? Hold him here for the year for no reason to watch him walk away for nothing, or move him elsewhere for something. I assume Drake was looking for more $$$ than we offered, and more than his value is worth to a rebuilding team. When you're doing what we're doing you're not going to overpay a RB of his caliber. Melvin Gordon, Todd Gurley, Alvin Kamara... absolutely you do. All damn day long. Kenyan Drake... Not so much. RB's in Drake's class have become replaceable. Someone will pay him & use him well, but the ROI on it just isn't there IMO, especially for a team in our position.
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    It's not about Drake not wanting to be in Miami. It's about why Drake wanted out. He wanted out because he wasn't being used, and when used appropriately, he can do what he did last night.
     
  37. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    He had a good game last night. He had good games in Miami. Consistency was an issue with him. Both overall and in consistently getting the tough yards to go along with chunk yards (both were also Gase issues). Also consider for last night ... while he didn't have a ton of time to get familiar with the offense, his style and that of Murray mesh well. Additionally, San Fran didn't get the chance to really gameplan or set practice for him. They had like 2 days to prep for Drake on the Cards.

    If he can sustain that production through the rest of the season then the Cards will have gotten a pretty good bargain. The move still made sense for us though. RB is too fungible a position to place a high value on and make people untouchable, plus he was not entertaining contract discussions.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  38. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    I was just thinking it sucks we couldnt package something with Drake to get Rosen cheaper earlier this year.

    A 2nd is a high pick to give up for a QB you dont seem very committed to.
     
  39. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    I will say it again, people flat out over value draft picks, especially 3rd/4th/5th rounders.

    A heavy contributor to the team, meaning they have productive snaps, is always worth a late 3rd to 4th in my view because it is guaranteed performance vs a crap shoot in the draft where you're more likely to not get major contribution from the player you selected.

    I would try and trade away my 5th/6th/7th rounders every damn year for players who fit my system and can produce. Its robbery.

    In the case of Drake his contract killed getting a better pick.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  40. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

    11,035
    4,419
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Yep.
     
    resnor likes this.

Share This Page