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Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Other NFL' started by bbqpitlover, Oct 16, 2019.

Ryan Tannehill is...

  1. A terrible QB

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. A below average QB

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  3. An average QB

    7 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. An above average QB

    39 vote(s)
    55.7%
  5. An elite QB

    16 vote(s)
    22.9%
  6. The GOAT.

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  1. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill learned how to scramble when things don't work.

    I think he was taught here to not improvise.
     
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  2. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just look at our list of previous head coaches, OC's, and OL. Youll remember.
     
  3. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    But I thought those were just excuses?
     
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  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    :whistling:
     
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  6. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    The Titans used him the way that makes sense given his strengths and weaknesses as a QB. They gave him a strong ground game and didn’t lean on him to carry the whole team. They also got the D to contribute with some key stops and the fumble recovery for a TD.

    At least 2 of his sacks were very avoidable, including the sack-fumble, and he got fooled badly with the dropped Int.

    What Tannehill showed today is what he’s shown throughout his career, which is you can win with him provided the rest of the team also contributes. However if the Titans had relied on him to win the game by himself they wouldn’t have won.

    I like Tannehill a lot and wish him well. I think he was badly coached whilst here. But today’s game doesn’t change the fact that Tannehill himself isn’t a difference maker.
     
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  7. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    So the question posed then is this...was it Tannehill that sucked, or the coaching that sucked?

    I vote the latter.
     
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  8. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, since you asked... I personally think it's a combination. Tannehill has his own shortcomings, if we're being honest about it we all know that. That being said though coaching didn't help him. Gase seemed to love the approach of trying to fit the square peg into the round hole. We're seeing that alot lately into this season. Think... Parker. Gesicki for starters. Biggest benefit for Ryan though right now, having a strong running game. Again, I think we all knew that's what he needed around here, but Gase just refused to run the ball, or build an OL around having a strong run game. Ryan is good when he has time, and a strong running game. The Titan's are giving him that so far. Protection isnt' the best there at times, but the running game helps him the most IMO.
     
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  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I watched the Youtube game highlights and essentially, I saw the same Tannehill we've always seen. He had a strip sack in the first, got laid out holding the ball 5+ seconds later in the first, then took a couple more sacks in the 2nd where he had to tuck and pray.

    However, he also completed a bomb in the 2nd, his team got a fumble/run back for a TD and another long run for a TD by Henry to erase those mistakes. RT had a few solid drives in the 2nd half...ended two of them on brutal sacks...but was money on the final drive with great passing. They scored, went up by 1, and decided to go for two points to make it a 3 point game. RT faked the handoff to Henry on the left side then kept it going off tackle to the right...and absolutely got lit up at the one yard line. He lowered his shoulder, pumped his feet and drove right through the LB for the 2-point completion, and it reminded me why so many of us loved the guy for so long.

    For those saying "Same old Tannehill"...I agree, you're 100% right. But it's the same old RT with the good, the bad, the awful and the heart of a champion all wrapped into one. He blew the game in the 1st half then ultimately won it for his team in the 2nd half...but he also had plenty of help from the D and a solid run game (BTW, Henry is a freak of nature...absolute beast!). What we're seeing isn't a blip or a freak occurrence...it's the exact same QB with a little bit better of a surrounding cast on both sides of the ball.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  10. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill is on on a much better team this year with a solid RB. I wish him luck i want to see him in the playoffs at least once in his life
     
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  11. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I personally think this is all just small sample size. Tannehill played real well in a few games while he was here too but overall he was mediocre. My prediction is that by year's end he'll be no different statistically than he's been in past years (once stats are adjusted to a common year). For those that watched the game today, note that the Titans did NOT rely on Tannehill for most of the game. They relied on him at the end, and he did really well there, but for most of the game they just had a very good running game (188 yards by Henry).

    Also.. not sure if it made the highlights (probably not) but Tannehill threw an easy to catch pass right at someone on the D-line who probably was too surprised to catch it (he was fumbling the ball around before he dropped it). That would have been a crucial INT. Luck is part of the game so that's fine for today, but over larger sample size stuff like that shows up not just on the stat sheet but in game/drive outcomes.

    So as far as I'm concerned, the "excuses" of coaching and surrounding cast still hold. For me what you saw in Miami with Tannehill was mostly due to Tannehill himself and not the myriad of different surroundings he had. I'll change my mind if at year's end we see something that is unlikely to be due to random variation alone (at least we have a hypothesis to test!).
     
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  12. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Look all kidding around aside we know who he is and if he had ever had a decent coaching staff and just two decent guards what he could have been. It's all true he is terrible in the pocket and hasn't ever shown that he can carry a team on his shoulders to a win. But he is in a situation now with complimentary pieces and I expect he will have some success there.

    Good Luck to him. I hope he keeps it up.
     
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  13. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    As a contrast the QB on the other side showed what happens when you have a QB that can carry the team. Mahomes did enough to win the game for the Chiefs but was undone by a fumble that was returned for a TD. The Chiefs really didn’t have much happening in their ground game and their defense, whilst OK, didn’t come up with any game changing plays. Mahomes’ receivers did have a good day for gaining extra yards, especially Tyreek Hill, so it wasn’t entirely all Mahomes.

    Tannehill helped his team win. Mahomes almost carried his team to a win. That sums up the difference between Tannehill and the best QBs.
     
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  14. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is impossible. People told me for years he can't lead game winning drives
     
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  16. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Now that we're no longer tanking for Tua and are fermenting for Fromme or limping for Love I wonder if Ross is losing his mind. What will absolutely kill Ross is if Tannehill leads the Titans to the AFC Championship. I think if Tannehill makes the AFC championship Grier will be fired
     
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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Been saying that for YEARS.
     
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  18. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    “I watched the YouTube highlights”

    lol. Seems credible
     
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  19. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I understand what you’re saying but ALL players have shortcomings. This is where coaching comes into play to develop players to the next level, regardless of their position. So rarely are there players that need no coaching, Marino being the benchmark for that assertion.
    As for the quarterback position they ALL need time to throw, they ALL need a running game and they ALL need coaches who have the ability to coach the TEAM to the level needed to make not only the quarterback , but everyone else on the team a success.
    Tannehill didn’t have that in Miami...from Philbin to Gase to the various OCs and WB coaches. He was set up for failure and not set up for success.
    Tannehill’s brilliant performance yesterday was a result of great coaching that didn’t give up in the TEAM and set everyone up for success
     
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  20. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That seems like an odd position to take to be honest. I don't think you can fire Grier based on trading away Tannehill. He'd run his course here. You're committing the organization to a rebuild & therefore just not going to keep Ryan Tannehill and his contract through that process. If you want to build a winning organization from the ground up (like we have to do) you can't keep a 8 year vet QB who hasn't shown you much steady improvement, or top performance with his salary when you're trying to rebuild. You need to blow out those salaries, build draft capital, and find a QB that you can get on the cheap and build around.

    I think there's other reasons to build a case for questioning Grier's job moving forward into a rebuild with all the picks we have, but I don't think trading Ryan Tannehill away is one of them because he's having success elsewhere. I think you have to assume that everyone in the front office was understanding of the direction the team was committing themselves to taking. Everyone was on board with moving Tannehill I bet, you just have to if you're rebuilding, unless the guy is a clear cut franchise QB, which lets face it... he hasn't proven to be even with his resurgence in Tennessee.
     
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  21. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No argument here. In a nutshell, that's what I was saying. He's got shortcomings, we know that, and yes all players do IMO. They're never perfect, although some are damn close it seems. That's what I was saying though; as a team we failed having the proper support system around him. No guarantees that would have made him Brady, or Manning like, but it would have allowed for better performance from him I bet. It's why pairing that QB and coach is so important. I like the fact that Flores is here now, with nobody as a long term QB option. He's got an opportunity to put his system in place, get everyone on board, then find the right QB to fit into the mix & the vision moving forward. It's a good scenario here IMO to move forward & insert a QB down the road, these couple of wins I think actually help to solidify that foundation he's building.

    Lets not forget, wasn't Ryan's longest serving QB coach Zack Taylor? Look at that wonderful job he's doing as a coach in Cincy... :lol:

    I guess bottom line though, as a team all you can do is try and find the right coach and QB combo. Sometimes your right, sometimes your wrong. We were wrong. Alot.
     
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  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Myself and a few others said it a million times, but Tannehill was screwed from the get-go. 3 awful head coaches, terrible coordinators, and a QB coach who had zero business coaching anyone.
     
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  23. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I think Derrick Henry makes a big difference in how well Tannehill manages a game. He never had a dominant running back while he was here in Miami. He had decent running backs, but we all saw how well Tannehill played the year Jay Ajayi broke through. I'm glad he's finding ways to help his team win in Nashville. I get all the Titan games on Sunday and am basically forced to watch them at times. Yes....He's still the same old Ryan Tannehill all day long, but i'd say the overall team atmosphere, to the environment of the city, to how well coached the Titans are, along with their style of play has made him a great fit on that team. Hopefully... he gets them to the playoffs this year. I'd love to see Tannehill in a playoff game, i'd love to see him have success. From a talent point of view, and from what this franchise needs out of the position, he just was never going to cut it.
     
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  24. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In hindsight, yes, likely true. That's the challenge though, finding the right pairing. I think there were valid reasons for hiring Gase at the time. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. We lost. :lol: I'd have loved to have heard the pitch Gase made though to get the HC job in Miami, but especially in NY after the way his tenure went in Miami though.

    I don't think you can say he was screwed from the get-go though. Sure, looking back how it played out it's easy to say that now. At the time though I think there were some decent reasons for the choices made. Philbin was the "OC" in Green Bay with Rodgers' success. Sherman as his OC was his old college coach. Those aren't exactly bad decisions on the surface when you draft an inexperienced college QB. The Taylor decision was... dumb, but I think they were just looking for some consistency after Sherman. Same with Lazor. Gase was regarded as a top QB guy at the time and considered as a good hire at the time. As it turns out though, he may have been the worst possible choice as nothing improved.

    Bottom line though, we tried at the time. The choices ended up being the wrong ones for a number of reasons. If Gase wasn't so useless though maybe things could have turned out differently.

    It's such an important decision that QB/HC pairing. As I said somewhere earlier, I like the Flores right now has the chance to get his system in place with that locker room, and then find the right QB to insert into it. At this point, it appears a good foundation is being laid, but the rubber meets the road once we select that future QB.
     
  25. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill is demonstrating the same pattern of performance he has shown throughout his career, whereby he makes his living against poorer defenses and in non-clutch situations, and so the likelihood of his performing well in the playoffs, when those variables are key, is very low.
     
  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm not saying there weren't reasons for those coaches. However, regardless of those reasons, they were all terrible coaches, and that absolutely affected Tannehill and his development.
     
  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Again, when you're playing better teams, they are going to do things that restrict your offense, they get more pressure, they throw receivers off their routes, many things. It's unbelievably simplistic to keep making these sorts of statements like you do. It's still completely ignoring the rest of the team.
     
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  28. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I suppose I could agree with that. Although it's also possible that maybe the Ryan Tannehill just is what he is and there isn't much more you could get out of him. I say that because I'm not sure I can look at him now, and the things he's doing now and say yeah... He's gotten better. He still appears to be the same QB, just benefiting from a better surrounding cast of players & coaches at this point. It's not like he's magically become a top 5 QB now though. I believe he just is what he is & always has been, and the team is having success because he's giving them better production than Mariotta was. It's not like he's done anything special though that makes me go wow... they fixed Ryan Tannehill and made him a better QB. They're just getting a bit more production from him with a much better surrounding cast.

    Interesting to keep an eye on though as the seasons progresses, but he still seems like the guy we always thought he was. Average to above average QB, that can win you some games, but likely not good enough to win you a Super Bowl. Not likely to be the guy who makes everyone around him better because of his elite talent, but can thrive when surrounded by elite talent. In other words; average to above average.

    Sadly though, we'll never really know if something could have changed early on in his development without Philbin, or Mike Sherman. Sherman was a safe choice for him based on the past, but I wonder if pairing him with someone new & more forward thinking in todays style of offense would have been a better solution to help him grow early on. Either way, happy for the success he's having.
     
  29. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    That’s some limb you’ve gone out on. Move the needle a little more.

    3 game winning td drives in 4 games as a starter. That’s just facts.
     
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  30. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Tannehill is the same guy he always was. Smart, tough as nails and too willing to take a hit. The big difference is that he has a legit running game with Henry and an above average defense. Pretty much what I expect the Dolphins will be next year.
     
  31. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Tannehill has always been an excellent passer. IMO his consistency and accuracy is elite. Unfortunately, that elite skill needs good protection b/c his pocket management and feel is below average. He's also only average at reading defenses.
     
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  32. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    This is all true, he was never in a situation to live up to that top 10 QB selection in Miami. Some Qb's are special enough to overcome this, most are not.

    Ryan has always been just above game manager in my mind, and that is PERFECT for what the Titans need from him. Rooting for them to get that last WC spot or maybe take down the division.
     
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  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    If Tannehill lead them to the AFC championship in year one I swear I'd dance a little jig. Nothing would make me happier!

    The thing is, with a beast like Henry carrying the ball, anything is possible for that team. I mean, he's about 2 inches shorter than his linemen but just as wide...and he's outrunning DB's on the field. It's pure insanity....he's the NFL's LeBron. And I'd love to see them go deep in the playoffs just to spite Ross and his 17 trillion advisers.
     
  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Well, we knew that because Philbin clearly said, "We told him to stay in the pocket at all times....unless it made more sense to run....but even then he should probably stay in the pocket anyway...except when he shouldn't."

    How can anyone not decipher that ultra clear message and use it to become an elite quarterback?
     
  35. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    The message is clearly to second guess yourself at every possible chance, then freeze.
     
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  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The message should have been (for a QB like Ryan Tannehill)...you have talent, just follow your instincts and play. Stop trying to overthink things or worry about making a mistake.
     
  37. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    He has the game winning drive in 3 out of his first four games for the Titans. What are you talking about non clutch situations. That's about as clutch as you get
     
  38. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    I just realized what I said could be taken as a criticism of Tannehill but I meant it all on Philbin in that instance.
     
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  39. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    It's important to understand the definition of "game winning drive." It's a drive in the fourth quarter that results in a score that puts the winning team ahead for the last time.

    A team could get the ball midway through the third quarter and drive the length of the field, and if it scores a field goal with one second gone in the fourth quarter that puts it ahead by only one point but for good, that drive was indeed a "game winning drive" according to the technical definition, even though that team would have roughly only about a 50% chance of winning that game at that point.

    Against the Chargers, Tannehill led a drive that resulted in a touchdown with 13:11 remaining and put the Titans ahead 16-10. The Titans never trailed from then on, despite that their win probability was only 76.6% at the time. Virtually 1 in 4 teams lose the game in that situation.

    Against Tampa Bay, Tannehill led a drive that resulted in a touchdown with 6:55 remaining and put the Titans ahead 27-23. The Titans never trailed from then on, despite that their win probability was only 68.3% at the time. Nearly 1 in 3 teams lose the game in that situation.

    Against the Chiefs, Tannehill led a drive that resulted in a touchdown with 0:23 remaining and put the Titans ahead 35-32 and gave the Titans a 99.9% win probability.

    It's not difficult to see the difference between the third game and the first two in terms of whether the first two were "game winning drives" as they are traditionally understood. The third game indeed involved a game winning drive as it is traditionally understood, however.
     
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  40. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Given that one can compare quarterbacks to each other over large sample sizes in terms of how much their performance is diminished against better defenses, it isn't a simplistic statement. If for example the best quarterbacks in the league have their passer ratings diminished by the best defenses in the league by (hypothetically) 5 points on average, and Ryan Tannehill has his diminished by 15 points on average, then the comparison between Tannehill and those quarterbacks is informative with regard to what to reasonably expect from Tannehill in the playoffs, when teams are very likely to face such defenses.
     

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