1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Salguero: Justin Herbert leading Dolphins QB candidate

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Serpico Jones, Feb 26, 2020.

  1. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,121
    37,641
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    Had me going right up until the athleticism argument. Athleticism means less then nothing with a qb. It’s all from the neck up. But I’d rather go Hurts then Love any day as Love doesn’t belong near round 1. I’d take Fromm over Hurts or Eason....Love I just want no part of. Hurts is probably a day two guy imo. He is smarter then being given credit for and can process and make correct reads.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  2. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    To be honest I dont expect everyone to agree. That was my interpretation of his play here and I think his play for the Titans showed me it is a logical thought at the very least.

    None of us are pro evaluators. I could very well be wrong, but you could as well. That is why being a fan is fun!
     
    Hooligan, Irishman and resnor like this.
  3. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    3,040
    2,485
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    Did you read the entire article I posted? People are saying he is not getting out of the 2nd round after his combine performance. And one analyst said he sees him as a top 3 QB now.

    https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...eryone-away-draft-Oklahoma-Sooners-144422287/

    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I really struggle to understand why saying Jalen Hurts is a top 3 QB in this draft is met with such opposition. IMO, he's easily one of the top QBs. He's a legit playmaker.

    Echoing Davenport's comments here, CBS Sports analyst and former Notre Dame star Brady Quinn said earlier this week via CBS Sports that Hurts' skill set is the perfect fit in today's game.

    “This is a great time for a guy like Jalen Hurts to come into the NFL,” Quinn said from Indianapolis. “I think when you look at the scheme surrounding a quarterback like Lamar Jackson and what the Baltimore Ravens have done or how a team like the Saints use Taysom Hill. You’ve gotta be able to run, you’ve gotta be able to escape, scramble and make plays with your legs. That plays to the benefit of Jalen Hurts. It just comes down to him continuing to hone in on those skills and playing from the pocket.”
     
    Irishman and KeyFin like this.
  4. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    To me Hurts is a early 2nd round to early 3rd round pick. The nature of the QB position is that if you are perceived to have a shred of a chance to start in this league you will be taken by this point unless there is something people are holding against you like size, a bad attitude, so on.

    Hurts is not a bad QB, hes a hard worker with a lot of talent and someone is going to take a chance on him. The question will only be if he can improve in the areas he is lacking, which in part may come down to the system he plays in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
    Irishman likes this.
  5. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

    573
    532
    93
    Oct 16, 2017
    High Point, NC
    Are you saying you would love it if we didn't "hurt"?
     
    Rick 1966 likes this.
  6. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

    573
    532
    93
    Oct 16, 2017
    High Point, NC
    Would you like it if we traded back from pick 5 for and ended up with 3 picks instead of just 1?
     
  7. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

    573
    532
    93
    Oct 16, 2017
    High Point, NC
    I feel Payton Manning proved that for all time when he came back from his neck injury, couldn't throw long or real hard and still could score a lot of touchdowns while at Denver.
     
  8. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    No because I still have far less confidence in any mid/low-round QB than I would have in the top echelon guys. I would only trade back if we lose out on the top choices, but to be frank, that would mean we got outmaneuvered and would cause a large loss of confidence in Grier's ability.

    At this point, Burrow and Tua seem to be the cream, with Love and Herbert somewhat below but still elite-level prospects. If we don't end up with one of those 4 (and we have been positively linked to all of them) we won't look good. And no, I do not believe in the "just wait until next year" that I hear some espouse. We are in position to get a QB now, take it.
     
    resnor and Irishman like this.
  9. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015

    The only way I can wait until next year is if Rosen starts all 16 games like he should have this year.

    There is no other route to having a pick high enough to take a top QB. It comes with the added benefit of him potentially surprising everyone.
     
    resnor and texanphinatic like this.
  10. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Pretty much - I don't see us significantly worse this year than last. And with as high a rating as Lawrence will have, no QB needy team is trading out, even for a haul. Fields may be a more realistic target, but even that is hardly a guarantee. And after that you are looking at the equivalent of Herbert/Love. Meh.

    Just commit to a guy and let's go.
     
    Phin McCool, KeyFin and AGuyNamedAlex like this.
  11. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

    573
    532
    93
    Oct 16, 2017
    High Point, NC
    I was not assuming we would take a QB with any of the 3 new picks. I was thinking we would be able to get more good linemen with the increased number of picks that my scenario presented.

    Would you consider getting 3 pretty good linemen we wouldn't have had a shot for a worse option then getting a QB we have high hopes for?
     
    resnor likes this.
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    It doesn't really line up to do that- there are several great to elite tackles in this draft, but the guards and centers don't have any names that jump off the page. This draft is deep in stud CB, FS/SS, OT, RB, DL and WR. It's average for LB, DE and QB, maybe a little below average for G/C. And I have no idea about kickers, but I'm sure there's a few good ones to be had since there always is.
     
    Irishman, texanphinatic and resnor like this.
  13. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    3,040
    2,485
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    Tyler Biadaz is as good a center as has come out in a while. He should be a target of ours in round 2.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
    KeyFin and Irishman like this.
  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    If you got 3 really good oline starters in one draft, your line, barring injury, should be set for the next couple years...and extremely cheaply. Can't see how anyone would view that as a loss.
     
    Hooligan and Irishman like this.
  15. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    I think we need to be careful about taking a fan view - we need offensive line! - and applying that to mean we need to draft a relatively large number of them.

    I don't think it is realistic to have a line with 3 rookies starting. I also think that will cause major cap issues down the line. I'd expect 1-2 pricey vets, 1-2 cheap vets and 1-2 early round OL to compete with what we already have. Maybe another 2-4 low round/UDFA types for camp battles.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Three rookie linemen is fine as long as you have two veteran out there as well. The biggest thing is building chemistry and we won't have that to start the year no matter what since it's a revolving door year after year. I agree with you though that we should load up on UFDA linemen...get the meanest and ugliest ones we can find then let em scrap it out.
     
    Hooligan and Irishman like this.
  17. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

    573
    532
    93
    Oct 16, 2017
    High Point, NC
    I agree.

    I should have pointed out that with my proposal for trading back and converting our #5 pick into three lower draft picks, I had already assumed there were already some free agents brought in, and that their being on the team would have already had an effect on our draft board.

    In the end, I feel at this point in our teams development, we need to focus on establishing an effective core of players who will be our offensive and defensive line. Now when I say focus, that does not mean to the exclusion of all the other positions, but we need to address our greatest weaknesses first. If 80 or 90 percent of our draft goes that direction this year we should end up with some good results. We can bring in better players at the key positions i.e. QB, Center and whoever is our defensive field general, as they become available and at a reasonable cost. These limiting conditions means the source of these key positions will be this or a future the draft.

    Free Agency should be looked at as a place where we can get a solid, if not outstanding player for more money but with an expected shorter future to both augment and simplify who we go after in the draft.
     
  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    We're not saying you'd have 3 all pros. Just three good linemen. Your method is paying more now and more later. Lol. Not saying it's a good idea or gonna happen, but the potential caphit wouldn't really be a factor in whether or not it was a good idea, I don't think.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  19. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,696
    3,743
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Sounds a little bit like the comments I heard about Gardner Minnshew before the draft last year. ie - if he can clean up his mechanics to consistently get better velocity on the ball he has the other parts of his game to be NFL capable.
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I mean, Hurts won the national championship game almost single-handedly two seasons ago after Tua fell to pieces...and he's far more polished today. People are talking about him like he's a scrub that has to reinvent his entire game, but that's not true at all. Just pick a game from last season and watch Hurts for a full quarter...he's exciting as can be and a nightmare for defenses.

    For comparisons, he's a smaller, faster Lamar Jackson with a better release. There's very little downside to taking a flyer on him in the late 2nd/early 3rd.
     
    Hooligan, resnor and Irishman like this.
  21. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    679
    788
    93
    Nov 8, 2017
    Doesn't sound like he would last that long though Key - would be ideal though
     
  22. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    679
    788
    93
    Nov 8, 2017
    Isn't there 3 good centre prospects though (Biadaz, Hennesey & one other who's name escapes me for the moment - Ruiz?)? CK, Alf & Simon on 3YPC are pretty high on Hennesey & Ruiz I think.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  23. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,817
    10,321
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Oh you mean that quarterback that went to the AFC Championship game?
    That guy who had the highest QBR?
    That guy who was named NFL Comeback Player of the Year?
    That guy who has a 150 page, 5000+ post thread?

    That’s not a bad comparison then.

    Personally however, I’m not sold on a Herbert from what I’ve seen of him.
     
    Irishman and LI phinfan like this.
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    There are....I just meant it wasn't a deep draft for centers or guards. We can definitely get 5 starting linemen if we want to prioritize them early; I'm just not expecting that since we wouldn't have anything else.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  25. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Cushenberry from LSU seems somewhat popular as well. It's interesting though, there is tons of variance on these guys - some mocks have them in the late first/early second, others have them lasting into the 4th/5th round.

    I suspect that we try hard to get a C and G in free agency with upper end players. Thuney, Glasgow, Scherff types. OT seems to be shallower in the free agent pool, though we could take a look at a high end dude like Conklin. The draft seems to have a lot of good OT prospects though, so it seems logical to hit the interior in FA and tackles via the draft.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  26. FishOutOfWater

    FishOutOfWater Member

    64
    78
    18
    Jul 27, 2017
    Knoxville, TN
    I don’t hate this idea. Only thing I’d change is take Jordan Love if he’s is available at 18, which would be very shocking at this point. But, I wouldn’t mind taking a flyer on Hurts with a 2nd or 3rd round pick. I’d also like to see what Rosen does with actual talent around him.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  27. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    679
    788
    93
    Nov 8, 2017
    Totally - think that's often the case with the interior lineman, in that they are often grabbed lower in the draft (well, other teams manage to find and develop them - we don't have the best track record). I'm still hoping that Dieter & Boehm amount to something, as though Boehm showed some promise at C when Kilgore went down - it is a bit of a low bar I will admit. There's also a few analysts that think Dieter could be a decent C - we will see what happens
     
    KeyFin and Irishman like this.
  28. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    679
    788
    93
    Nov 8, 2017
    That was the other one, thought there might be one more. The majority of analyst info that I have seen seems to have them all as 2nd/3rd rounders - haven't personally seen any higher/lower than that.
    That seems to be the consensus ie interior in FA & T in the draft. I still have some hope for Dieter & Boehm and think one could be a decent upgrade over Kilgore at C. Also, if we manage to come out of the draft/FA with 2 decent T's, Jesse Davis could be moved back inside
     
  29. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    3,040
    2,485
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    No to Jordan Love, wouldnt touch him with a ten foot pole in the first. He has some serious accuracy issues and his football IQ is lacking. Very overated in my opinion. Jalen Hurts is a much better QB than Love in my opinion.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  30. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020
    Hurts is the same height as Lamar Jackson with 20 pounds of additional Muscle. Hurts squats 600+ pounds he is a beast.
    Hurts was running the 40 in the 4.8 range two years ago. He did not go to the combine to run... He went to throw.

    And when he did throw he impressed. Herbert and Love were up there throwing and Hurts was throwing next... He was matching them throw for throw. All reports were that Hurts impressed and it was one of the big stories coming out of the combine.

    Hurts is a QB that can win games on the ground with his legs... But he has worked hard and his arm strength is now rated above average..... He showed at Oklahoma that he can win games throwing the football. 70 percent pass completion. Low number of interceptions.

    Hurts scored a combined 53 touchdowns last year... There is a reason he was a Heisman finalist... He had an absolute monster season.

    I would take Hurts over love or Herbert in a nanosecond.

    The great thing is that Hurts will be there for the drafting late in the second round.
     
    hitman8, resnor and KeyFin like this.
  31. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    If he is as good as your hype, then no he won't. If he is, that means teams are seeing flaws or lack of high-end potential.
     
    resnor likes this.
  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Hurts is similar to Tebow...tons of potential but still pretty raw. Some coaches love players like that since they can mold them to their system, while others see it as too much work. Lamar Jackson is another good comparison- we passed on him because he didn't fit a certain mold.

    He is expected to go late 2nd/early 3rd though as the 5th or 6th overall QB because of that bias against dual threat QB's and having to rebuild your offense around it....it has nothing to do with his talent though. I personally would love to have Hurts because of his unique skill-set.
     
  33. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020
    There are bargains in every draft... Minshew is a very good young qb that was taken in the 6th round... So please stop with the... "If he was as good as you say he would be drafted at this spot."

    Jimmy G was not a first round pick either.
     
  34. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Tebow went #25.

    If Hurts is not taken until the late second/early third it's because the NFL either sees less ceiling or greater flaws than they did in Tim Tebow. Could they be wrong? Absolutely! But in general, trying to strike gold on QB outside of the first round is little better than forfeiting the pick.

    If the team still has confidence in Rosen like you believe then sure Hurts makes some sense. But I think that's a minority opinion at the moment as Rosen hasn't really shown anything worth resting hopes on. Outside of that remote possibility, we need to be picking up an elite prospect at or around 5.
     
  35. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020
    I am projecting Hurts to be gone at the end of the second round...

    Two weeks ago people were saying he was worth taking in the 5th round as a fullback... He has silenced those clowns and everyone agrees now he deserves a shot to prove himself at QB
     
    hitman8 likes this.
  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I mean, I don't know if they have confidence in Rosen or not. I just know if they draft Tua or Herbert (or trade up for Burrow), then it's pretty obvious they don't think Rosen could be the guy. If they pass on a 1st round QB, then there has to be some confidence there...that was my only point. We will know either way come draft night how they're thinking.

    Hurts may end up being a late 1st rounder before all is said and done...he probably had the best combine out of any QB because he proved that some of his perceived weaknesses weren't there. Honestly, he could be anywhere from the 4th to the 6th QB taken...which aligns with Lamar Jackson a few years back. It just comes down to what you want in a QB and if you're willing to play fast and loose with that type of guy.

    Again, I'm not lobbying for Hurts....I just think it makes sense to look at that type of player since that's where the league is headed with the ultra mobile QB's. If he's there in the late 2nd or early 3rd then I'd consider him over a 2nd RB/WR or a decent prospect elsewhere. If one of the better graded G or C drop though, then maybe you prioritize them if you've already rolled the dice on a QB in round 1. It all comes down to their draft strategy though and what they're prioritizing.

    As far as grabbing your QB out of the 1st round though, there are several studs in today's league that wasn't coveted in the draft. Jackson, Wilson, etc. all went later because of their play style being similar to Hurts.
     
    resnor likes this.
  37. flounder97

    flounder97 Well-Known Member

    347
    271
    63
    Jun 7, 2010
    Richmond, VA
    If we don’t nab a QB at 5/18/26, I wouldn’t be upset taking Hurts at 39
     
  38. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Jackson was still a first rounder. Wilson is an exception. You don't build strategies off of exceptions.
     
  39. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020
    Hurts will be best case scenario the 4th QB taken... and that is great news for the Dolphins.

    We have trade assets... So say we pick Odukah, Weaver and then Baun in the first round... If we want to trade up into the start of the second round thinking we can specifically get Hurts... We have plenty of resources to do that. All of the picks later in the draft and additional picks in next years draft.

    So yeah give up a couple of day three picks and the second round pick next year to get a third pick at the start of the second round in this draft...

    If they feel that hurts is not going to last.

    Draft Hurts, Biadasz and Prince Wonegho in the second round.... Absolutely kill the draft.
     
  40. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    679
    788
    93
    Nov 8, 2017
    From everything I've read, that's way too high for Weaver - if they decide that Tua or Herbert are not the pick at 5 (or teams drop their trousers & give up the farm to move up), the other 5 picks are pretty good (not sure what the Wonegho thoughts are - maybe too high?).
     

Share This Page