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Understanding where everyone is at with Herbert

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by tirty8, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I was on my run today and I was thinking about you guys. I know a lot of people on this board are sour on Herbert. I hear vague, "Pass," "No thanks," etc., but I am genuinely curious as to who you guys think we are looking at. So, I am gonna ask a more specific question.

    "What cloth do you think Justin Herbert is cut from?" Essentially, I want you to name other prospect that you think Herbert is similar to and explain why.

    Personally, I think that he is similar to Drew Lock, Josh Allen, and Carson Wentz.

    These guys are big dudes, with live arms, but they lacked in production or judging their production was difficult.
     
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  2. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    The closest comp I have for Herbert is Tannehill. Both are big guys with strong arms and some athleticism. Tannehill is more accurate on short passes, but Herbert is more accurate deep. There are questions about their touch passing ability and their decision-making. Herbert is a little bigger (2" and 20 lbs). They are both decently fast in a straight line, but neither have a ton of wiggle. Like Tannehill, I expect that Herbert would be best in a P/A deep passing offense. They are both thought of as intelligent. Neither are natural leaders, but they are good guys who will work hard and not embarrass the organization. I think Herbert, like Tannehill, can develop into a productive guy that you can win with, but he'll probably never be thought of as one of the elite QBs. They both need a good supporting cast and a specific system to succeed.
     
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  3. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Hey dude, thanks for the thorough response. Can I pick your brain for a second? Let's say in the next ten draft classes, there are, on average, 3 QBs taken in the first round. So, let's call it an even 30 first round QBs will be taken in the next decade. Of those, how many QBs do you think will go on to have better careers than Ryan Tannehill?

    My guess... Right around 13.
     
  4. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I think that he's like Tannehill too. Which for me is a good thing, since I view RT17 as a good QB and have always liked him. A year and a half ago, he was looked at by many as the clear cut number one QB in either last year or this year's class, and the kind of guy teams would want with the number one pick.

    The differences are that Herbert is even bigger than RT is, at 6'6" 227 vs 6'4" 210, he's played QB in college nearly twice as much as RT did, and that he's two and a half years younger than RT was coming into the draft. He's not perfect, and he may need to wait a little while to develop before he's ready to start, but that's ok.

    If we're going to draft a QB, he's definately my preferred choice.
     
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  5. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, If I had to make a wild guess, Id probably guess 10-12.
     
  6. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I think if Herbert gets picked by the right coaches, in a system that fits his skillset...he will have a solid career. He has some great tools. However, I don't see him as a the type of talent that could succeed in any system with any coaches. He isn't that kind of rare talent. I don't think this draft has that elite kind of guy.
     
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  7. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Lamar Jackson is not a QB that could have great success anywhere in any system. I love Jackson and he is a great player... But for him to succeed in the NFL he had to be taken by coaches that understood the whole offense had to change to bring out his skillset and use it properly.

    So if that is also true for Herbert... It is not a knock in my book. If we trust Flores and his coaches and this is the kid they want... We have to trust that they have a plan for him like the Ravens did for Jackson.
     
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  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I don't think that any of the QBs in this class are like that either.
     
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  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yup, I got the same feel when researching him. I wouldn't hate it if we draft the kid, but if we're going to grab someone that fits the Tannehill mold almost exactly, then that makes me question this entire organization for letting Tannehill walk a year ago. I see the exact same pros/cons but at the same time, Tannehill is an NFL veteran that we know can play at NFL speed, complete passes at high percentages and generally play error-free football in the passing game. We can't say the same thing about Herbert or any rookie....they're still unknowns.

    For me Herbert would be a hard pass...but again, I'll support him if we do end up drafting him. It's not like I dislike his game or anything else about him- the kid's a solid player. But his struggles in the pocket under pressure makes me think that we've all already watched that movie and most of you HATED IT.
     
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  10. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Well, we could always try and make the OL a strength, like I've been saying for years....
     
  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I've been preaching that too...I was definitely on the RT bandwagon his final three seasons. The problem was that we always tried to supplement the line with aging veterans who ended up on injured reserve.

    To compete in the NFL, you really need 7-8 starting caliber linemen and the most we've had at any given time was five or six. It's a methodology to keep young linemen coming in and learning from real pros- we've never had the coaching or the locker room to make that happen consistently. Then there was that "high moral character" phase where we took good people over scrappers and brawlers, assuming every nice guy could play like Jake Long. That's not how it works though; to be a successful lineman, you need a chip on your shoulder, you have to be mean once you step on that field and merciless. That doesn't mean you can't be a nice guy off the field...but generally your brawlers are in the Ritchie Incognito mold (not necessarily crazy like him, but the same character traits...mean, brash, fearless, etc.).
     
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  12. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Great analysis! I am struggling with this QB thing. I go back and forth and wonder how much QB do we need? By that, I mean, is just good enough, good enough? So we take Herbert. I like the Tannehill comparison, and we ride with him. What do we do in the upcoming drafts? If we are good, but not good enough and find ourselves picking in the bottom 3rd, what do we do if a QB drops into our laps? Do we take him, or continue to ride with Herbert? What if we manage to take Burrow or Tua, should we always be looking to upgrade the QB position, or should we show some loyalty and patience and hope for a guy to develop into a stud? Is it healthy for a guy we go with to always be looking over his shoulder, or should he feel confident that we aren't going to pull the rug out from under him?
     
  13. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Not a fan of what he did in college, he is responsible for a lot of big losses in Oregon. But his measurables are undeniable. On measurables alone he is the top ranked quarterback. Accuracy, arm strength, mobility, no other quarterback in this draft can match up against him on that.
     
  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Pick your QB, commit to him, and build around him for the next four years. Give him every shot to do well, and unless he shows that he's totally lost or is a problem off the field, ride it out and use the draft and free agency to bolster the rest of the team.
     
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  15. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Herbert is my #1 QB on the board in this draft and the only one I dont have massive questions about.

    At the NFL level I think he could have a career similar to Roethlisberger on the field. The major difference being that Herbert has better short accuracy IMO similar intermediate accuracy and perhaps a tad worse deep accuracy but an equal arm.

    He should be someone at this level that can avoid sacks and make plays with his legs when it's necessary.

    His weaknesses are ones that can be improved and his strengths are ones that IMO you cant teach.

    His career line is college is really good. He had one subpar season, last year, where he probably would have been a top 10 pick anyway despite that.

    Hes produced exactly how I would expect him to based on the talent around him. Put him on LSU or Alabama and hes the one throwing 45-60 TD passes.
     
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  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing- let's say we draft Herbert at #5. Who starts week 1? Almost definitely Fitzpatrick. And who's #2? Probably Herbert, but it could actually be Rosen depending on how camp unfolds. That's a good problem to have for 2020 and maybe one of the two eventually start towards the end of the season.

    Going into 2021, maybe Fitzpatrick returns...or maybe he sees the writing on the wall that he's going back to the bench and embraces retirement. Who starts? Probably Herbert. We still haven't seen much of him or Rosen though, so do you enter the Lawrence sweepstakes? Or draft another QB in the early rounds? This is where it gets tricky since Rosen will have almost zero trade value (unless he actually wins the camp battle) and Herbert is going to be unproven.

    It's a good problem to have but at the same time, we're going to have to define a true pecking order quickly to be able to evaluate what we have and be ready to act appropriately for 2021. With the way our defense is beefing up, I honestly think we need a game manager almost exactly like Fitzpatrick. Building around Fitz, Herbert or Rosen would be three completely different offenses though. Herbert needs that Landry type receiver where Rosen will be looking for that seam-busting Ferrari. Fitz could play with anybody but we know he's going to be hot/cold from one week to the next.

    So I think this draft will be pretty telling outside of who we pick at QB, but it scares me to "commit to one guy for the next 4 years". I'm not 100% ready to give up on Rosen or Fitz...but what if we do move up and grab Burrow? Then the whole scenario I just laid out probably changes and we have to commit immediately. It honestly worries me since we all know the bust rate of quarterbacks.
     
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  17. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Right there with you!! The O-line is like unto the Engine Room on a ship... and ours has needed an overhaul for a looonnnngggg time. They don't all have to be all-pro. But they do need to know what they are about and have good leadership, on and off the field - and time to learn to play as a solid unit
     
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  18. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    IMO We will have to have a worse season than last to have a chance at Lawrence. We would need to finish with the #1 overall pick on our own merit somehow, which would imply either we or Houston blew up and had an awful season. If we are worse than last year, this staff needs to be fired immediately because the talent is already way better this season.

    Noone is trading Lawrence away, the lone exception would be something insane like a teams star QB is injured for the season, they finish with the #1 overall and just want to acquire a boatload of picks.
     
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  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I've already heard several analysts picking us to win the AFC East, which makes me feel like we'll definitely win more than five. I'm optimistic anyway and looking forward to writing a season preview once everything shakes out.

    When the season will start is another story entirely- that definitely has me worried since I don't think it will be a normal year or actually start on time.
     
  20. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    If we draft any QB in the first round this year, then we're out on Lawrence or any other Qb in the first round in 2021. No matter what. That's my philosophy.

    We let the QB - Herbert, Tago, Burrow - show what they have and the same for Rosen. Let the guy who's ready to play do so, and not throw anyone onto the field until he is. Fitzpatrick is a temporary placeholder until someone else is ready.

    I'm not concerned about wins and losses at all. Its totally irrevelant. When the young QB is ready to go on the field, he goes in and runs the offense. It will likely be messy at first, then gradually get better. Whether that's later in 2020, or Week 1 in 2021, or later. Do it slowly, do it right, and let the whole process ride out. Then when the rookie contract is up and we have to commit to the 5th year option, then we decide if its time to give him a big contract or draft someone else.
     
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  21. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    One thing that really amazed me...

    Not exactly a knock on Herbert... But everyone raved about his arm talent... Okay

    Well at the combine they had Hurts who everyone crapped on when it came to throwing... Throwing with Herbert.... So Herbert would make a throw and then Hurts would have to make the same throw...

    Watching the two QB's throw... Hurts matched him throw for throw... Hurts had velocity... accuracy... and touch

    I have always been a huge fan of Hurts... I loved seeing that at the combine.

    But for the people that think that Herbert is special as a prospect because of arm talent that no other QB compares with...

    After the combine I am not so sure of that. Maybe Herbert's arm is still better slightly... But it is not enough to be noticeable or matter.

    If they draft Herbert I am going to hope for the best, naturally... I hope that they do not reach for Herbert.... He is not worth taking 5th overall....

    Herbert has some Red Flags. If Herbert was half the leader that Hurts was.... I would be all for taking him 5th overall... If he worked half as hard as Hurts I would be on board.... If he had proven he could overcome adversity and just win no matter what like Hurts... again.... Yes Yes Yes.

    Herbert is gigantic... a plus athlete... with a strong arm... With a tape measure and a stopwatch... Sure he is impressive. But He has not shown he is a natural born leader and a QB that can read defenses and win football games.
     
  22. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear, how do you know how hard any of these guys work or dont work?

    Aside from a few clearly bad apples it's mostly just how hard a coach or team points it out to the media. We arent behind the scenes to see any of the work put in.

    For what it's worth though, I'd be more comfortable with Hurts later than Tua at #5, and I consider Burrow out of the question.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Literally from day 1 of last season, I was a strong proponent of grabbing Hurts. That philosophy hasn't changed except for how Burrow closed out the season, which I think only sweetens the pot since it adds another 1st round QB to the mix. Obviously we have no idea how the front office values him but I'd be absolutely thrilled to see us skip a QB with the first two picks and then grab Hurts in the 20's.

    I grabbed this from NFL.com for perceived strengths/weaknesses-

    Strengths
    • Finished with 38-4 record as a starter
    • Tremendous leadership qualities
    • Extremely tough and durable
    • Shows poise to make plays late in games
    • Has experience in a variety of schemes
    • Able to step and drive with adequate velocity
    • Uses athletic ability and strength to elude pocket pressure
    • Play extender who can make big plays on the move
    • Good accuracy on intermediate passes
    • Capable as rollout passer
    • Talented, powerful runner from direct snap and RPO
    • Leg drive to move piles and fall forward behind his pads
    Weaknesses
    • Has issues sustaining rhythm as passer with so many off-schedule throws
    • Inconsistent patience allowing routes to develop
    • Slow recognition of early throw opportunities
    • Leaves slants and crossers behind targets
    • Misses checkdowns and opts for harder throws
    • Deep arm dip into elongated release
    • Forced speedsters at OU and Alabama to slow for deep throws
    • Needs to get better at trusting his pocket
    • Quick to drop his eyes when pressure mounts
    • More likely to void pocket than climb, scan and throw from it
    Essentially, his weaknesses are also his strengths- the pocket breaks down and he's off to the races. Yes, he will miss seeing some open receivers and yes, he doesn't trust the pocket as much as Herbert/Tua/Burrow, but most of those weaknesses can be taught thru camp. What you can't teach is leadership and natural ability as a play maker- he has those two things in spades.

    I think this kid is going to be an absolute stud for someone and I really hope it's us.
     
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  24. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    It cracks me up that this is a post about "what cloth Herbert is cut from" and everyone but Rafael resorted back to giving a scouting report but not naming a comparable prospect.

    I'm not trying to be difficult or picky. Just give me one.

    Rafael said Tannehill and gave me a detailed explanation of why he sees him in that light. I can now clearly see where he's coming from.
     
  25. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    For me, Burrow > Herbert > Tua. I don’t feel great about taking Herbert or Tua at 5. If one of them fell to 10-12, I’d be ok with trading up.
     
  26. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    To be fair I said similar to Roethlisberger in physical ability but slightly different in play.
     
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  27. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Alex

    I am not saying Herbert is Lazy, or Stupid, or incapable of leading. I am just pointing out that no Qb in this draft works harder, has overcome more or is a better leader than Hurts.

    Hurts led Bama to a national championship. Hurts gets replaced by Tua... He does not get mad or upset... He went to the coaches and asked to work on his throwing motion and arm strength... When Tua got hurt in the playoffs Hurts came in off the bench and won them a playoff game. Selfless...

    All of the coaches and players on Bama regarded Hurts as the hardest working player on the team... The top football program in the nation ( arguably )... Practice field, film room, weight room... Even Tua has spoke about how amazing Hurts is.

    So Hurts gets a chance to go to Oklahoma... and he blows the coaches there away... They did not know his arm was that good....They did not have to change the air raid offense for Hurts...

    Hurts learns a new offense... He starts throwing the ball down the field airing it out... With incredible results... He was a top 3 college QB last year....

    All of the while he led in the weight room and film room... Players marvelled watching Hurts squat 600 pounds... out lifting linemen...

    He took the Sooners to the playoffs and was within a game of the national championship... Losing to the eventual national champions. And in that game a couple of perfectly thrown footballs were dropped for easy touchdowns... On paper it looks like a rout... But the game was really much closer.... And even against the best college team in maybe the last decade... Hurts still put points on the board.

    I want to bring something else up also

    Tua could not beat LSU... They made him look normal
    Lawrence could not beat LSU...They made him look normal.

    But when Hurts lost to LSU There was this commentary that he was exposed and overrated... ( Just incredible. )


    Let's look at what Hurts did at Oklahoma.

    70% pass completion QB rating of 191 5147 total yards... and 52 touchdowns with 8 picks.

    Now you might say... Yeah but that offense is a gimmick.... No it is not... The air raid offense is a pro friendly offense and is a variation of the standard west coast offense that most NFL teams run. This is not Tim Tebow out there running a gimmick offense that is not adaptable to the NFL

    Let's look at the last 2 record breaking QB's to play in that offense in Oklahoma

    1. Baker Mayfield
    2. Kyler Murray

    Hurts beat Mayfield's touchdown total as a senior... bested his yard total... Threw for more yards per pass also. Hurts threw for 11.3 yards per pass... So no dinking and dunking.. He was looking down the field.

    Okay onto Murray

    Murray had a better senior season ever so slightly... The numbers are insane.

    Murray 54 total touchdowns Hurts 52
    Murray 5352 total yards Hurts 5147
    Murray 11.6 Yards per pass Hurts 11.3
    Murray and Hurts both completed 69% of their passes... Hurts was half a point higher
    Murray QB rating of 199 Hurts 191

    Murray and Mayfield were both first overall draft picks. Before Hurts went to the combine and blew people away by matching Herbert throw for throw... The talk was that Hurts was nothing more than a 5th round pick.

    Hurts is 5 inches taller than Murray and a lot stronger. Hurts is a couple of inches taller than Mayfield and hell of a lot faster. ( Nothing but speculation with Murray and his 40... There was a report that he ran an unofficial 4.38 in college... But he has never been officially timed... ) Hurts ran a 4.47 in college So still very fast.

    It is more than just the fact that he has won in college... It was about how he won. Perfect teammate... Leader on and off the field... He was willing to put the work in to improve his mechanics.. to get stronger... To increase his velocity ... and accuracy on his throws... He was willing to leave Bama... and learn a completely new offense.

    The proof is on the field... He is a fundamentally different QB now than he was when he was at Bama... Lots of QB's try to get stronger and improve their throwing motion.... 99% fail.

    Tim Tebow tried several times to improve his throwing motion... He could not do it... Look at how hard he worked... Look at the leader he was... Hurts has done what Tebow could not. Hurts now throws the ball with authority down the field with accuracy.


    With Hurts you have the coaches saying the kid is special that he works like no other. You have the players saying he is special and that he works like no other... and then you have the numbers he put up and the fact that he changed the type of QB he was from a run first and throw conservative to one that passes first and is to throw the ball down the field and attack a defense.

    With Herbert we did not see any such progression or transformation Herbert did not win big games in college... He was not that kind of leader. It is not that he is a bad person or lazy.... Nobody has raved that Herbert is a gym rat... or lives in the weight room... or takes game film home with him at night.

    I googled Herbert and work ethic and I read several articles that stated his work ethic was solid... That stated he had a positive attitude... So I am not in any way shape or form trying to knock the guy by saying he is lazy or a head case...

    One thing that does bother me with Herbert is that he has this arm and that great size... and I did not see much improvement in him as a starter in college. He did not dominate... The numbers are good... Not great. And Herbert has never had to beat anyone and be the man to win the big game. Being a leader means you step up and perform at a high level when it matters. Herbert has never done that... Not yet.

    If it was just about getting out a tape measure, a stop watch and set of weights... Yeah Herbert is the QB you draft first.
     
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  28. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Big Ben is who I was thinking of too based on his size and arm more than anything else.
     
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  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Herbert is a lot slimmer than Roethliberger ever was though, including in college. Herbert is built more like an athletic version of Joe Flacco.
     
  30. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, you dont have to convince me on Hurts. I like him too. You can also say it another way though.

    Hurts lost his job but was a strong enough player another top school was interested. It's not all that rare, there are a lot of transfers these days and it was never something to overcome or be ashamed of. Everyone knew he would be a starter somewhere.

    I like him as a player like I said, but I wouldnt say hes overcome some insurmountable circumstance to get here. He was a top QB at a top program, it's not surprising hed end up on another high profile team.
     
  31. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I wouldn't just be disappointed if we drafted Hurts.

    I'd be disgusted.
     
  32. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    I think we also need to consider that this is a new organization in terms of coaches and players. Grier is the carry over and so far it looks like he knows what he is doing in terms of VP and GM, based on getting our cap under control in one year and simultaneously setting us up for almost twice as many draft picks for the next two years. This draft should eliminate any question as to his drafting abilities.

    Let them run with whoever they want for QB and if they want to test the water with a lot of them before Fitz runs out of steam, they should!
     
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  33. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    So, what are some of ya'll saying? Hold at #5 and if Tua isn't there wait and grab Hurts in round 2?

    P.S. Not asking Alex or Unlucky. I know Alex wants Herbert, and Unlucky will be pissed if we take Hurts. :-)
     
  34. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Alex

    It is not extraordinary that a QB transfers... absolutely correct. What is extraordinary is asking that QB to change systems completely and to re-invent himself.... And then to have the QB grow and develop to be able to pull it off.

    Mayfield did not have to change his approach at all transferring to Oklahoma... He was running something close to the same type of offense at Texas Tech. This is one reason why I see the change and success of Hurts to be noteworthy. For hurts to pull it off he had to grow physically and mentally. He had to read defenses... make more than one look... Balance when to run and when to throw. ( Something the NFL is transitioning to with all of these dual-threat QB's coming into the league. )

    Hurts proved he could be a pass-first QB that pushed the ball downfield.
     
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  35. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Surfs

    If it was me.... Yeah Refuse to trade up for Tua... If he is there at 5.... Take him.

    If he is gone... Draft Simmons Then Kinlaw or McKinney at 18 and Mims at 26

    Second round you have to look at a Offensive lineman and a safety if you do not get one in the first round. Wanogho and Delpit ( If you get lucky )

    Third round grab Hurts... and if Cushenberry is there in the second half of round 3... trade up and snag him... ( Really bolstering the offensive line. )

    Round 4... gotta grab a RB.... Dillon

    So here is a hypothetical

    5. Simmons
    18 Kinlaw
    26 Mims
    39 Delpit
    56 Wanogho
    70 Hurts
    ??? Cushenberry
    141 Dillon

    This gives Miami the pieces to build TOP 3 defense in the NFL It adds two studs to the offensive line.... It adds an elite #1 wide receiver... and a 250 pound running back with speed and power.

    Roll with Fitzmagic this year and win 10 games make the playoffs... Continue to coach up Rosen and Hurts... Next year let Hurts and Rosen fight for the starting job.
     
    Puka-head and Irishman like this.
  36. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    If Tua is there at 5 and we take Tua...

    5. Tua
    18. Kinlaw
    26. Mims
    39. Delpit
    56. Wanogho
    70. Cushenberry
    ??? Duvarney
    141. Dillon

    I am still all for using the handful of picks we have after the 4th round to trade back into the end of the 3rd or at the start of the 4th round to grab a player we identify as filling a need like Duvarney and or Hurts... depending on how the draft shakes out.

    Drafting Duvarney at the end of the third round means Gator and Wilson can be cut and we trim 10 million off of our cap space...

    We roll with

    Mims
    Parker
    Williams
    Duvarney

    That is as much talent at wide receiver as any team in the NFL... And if we are going to draft Tua... We better take advantage of this being a deep draft for wide receivers.
     
  37. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    You have FIVE groups of fans here-

    Group #1 wants Tua at all costs (possibly trading 1-2 additional picks to move up).
    Group #2 wants Tua or Herbert at #5 (trade nothing, get who's there at 5).
    Group #3 wants Burrow at #1 overall (trade 2-3 first rounders plus other picks/players).
    Group #4 wants the best player available throughout the 1st round and take Hurts early 2nd.
    Group #5 wants to trade out of the #5 pick, build value and grab even more blue chip players on the first two days of the draft (or possibly in next year's draft).

    Groups #1-3 are all in....that's their guy and we should plan on starting him ASAP.

    Group #4 is a little different though because we're not expecting Hurts to play year one. Since we're not wasting that #5 overall pick on a QB, group #4 is also okay if Rosen turns out to be the guy...let him start late 2020 and it doesn't matter. Hurts said he'd play QB, RB, TE, WR or anything the team needs, so he has a lot more potential to not be a bust than any of the QB's named. And if it takes a few seasons with him only playing Wildcat downs, he's good with that.

    And group #5...I can completely understand that logic as well since it's the same path as #4 with a few extra picks thrown in. If someone really wants Tua/Herbert and will pay dearly to pick #5, it's hard to argue with that logic unless you believe that we have to have our franchise QB immediately. They may or may not take someone like Hurts with the extra 2nd/3rd we acquire (which is eerily similar to the Rosen scenario!)

    There's no right or wrong answer here...we all have opinions and we rank risks differently. For instance, I'm terrified Tua will get hurt again...others say that's dumb...and that's okay. We can't know what we don't know. To me personally though, Hurts is the safest pick since he could convert to a fantastic slot receiver or eventually turn into another Lamar Jackson. He has multiple paths to make this roster as a 2nd round pick and I personally like safe. He's dynamic as can be though as well...you will enjoy watching him play.

    Burrow, Tua and Herbert will all cost more and therefore have more risk involved, but I won't be upset regardless of who we pick. At this point I trust our front office to get the right player for this offense. Personally though, I'm in group #4 or 5 with us grabbing Hurts in the 2nd or 3rd.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
    M1NDCRlME, Hooligan and Surfs Up 99 like this.
  38. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Troy, Virginia
    I'm not in any of your groups, Key! I want to trade down, no matter who is there at 5. And I wouldn't draft Hurts in the 7th round.
     
    Irishman, KeyFin and Surfs Up 99 like this.
  39. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    I'm definitely group #2, albeit leaning towards Tua.
     
  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    LOL, so you don't want a QB at all? Or are you hoping to trade back a few spots and land Herbert/Love at a lower pick? Either way, I edited my post for you and presented the "group #5" argument.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020

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