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QB rankings

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by my 2 cents, Apr 3, 2020.

  1. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    I used to do this every year and proved pretty damn good at it before the fact and not after..... Was higher on a couple guys than they proved to be (Gregg McElroy and Conner Cook come to mind) but overall nailed some guys (like overrated Paxton Lynch, Geno Smith) but nailed Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins and Nick Foles among others. Was sorta high on a couple sleepers over the years that panned out at a higher rate than most "evaluators" like AJ McCarron, Gardner Minshew and Devlin Hodges, .... and a couple that didn't, like BJ Coleman and Chad Kelly.

    Lots of people want to like the long shots but I really don't see much in some of the kids that are chatted about like Mason Fine, Shea Patterson, Kevin Davidson (horrible), or Anthony Gordon.

    I have looked fairly closely at this years crop and I see two pretty high ceiling high floor guys (Burrow and Tua), one guy who's ceiling and floor is much higher than I think he is given credit for (Eason), one guy getting knocked down a bit and I am not sure why (Hebert), and then a bunch of "just guys", a couple with really high upside (and real low floor) for what is likely a very (maybe minimum) low investment (Steven Montez and Broc Rutter).

    So here is my "final" 2020 QB rankings without any noise skewing what I see.
    1. Joe Burrow- nuff said about him, most of it accurate…like his pocket awareness and control.

    2. Tua Tagovialoa- incredibly accurate ball placement, if not for injuries would be higher than Burrow significantly IMHO.

    3. Jacob Eason; Decisive, rocket arm, got some touch and bounce. Better awareness and instincts than given credit for. Kid is better than he is being evaluated likely because of his lack of snaps in college. Love his upside.

    4. Justin Hebert: Better QB than he is being portrayed. Reliance on his athletic ability has him a bit mislabeled IMHO…..likes air under the ball but showed he can drive it.

    Starts to separate here IMHO…

    5. Jordan Love- the more I watched the more I pushed him down…I want to like him, great arm when he can put air under the ball but VERY indecisive (double clutches a lot) when asked to drive the ball. He does it but is late in processing…lots more questions the more I watch but has lots of arm talent….don’t like that he is not real aware.

    6. Jake Fromm: a guy I wanted to like also. Understands pace and velocity but I question his ability to fit in tight windows. Works well inside a scheme and a specific fit type guy…perfect Patriots type. Depends on who drafts him.

    TIER 3

    7. Steven Montez- Good athlete with solid arm. More decisive than aware. Looks well coached and has some swag…sorta like him as a project. Reminds me a bit of a more aware RT17 with more swag.

    8. Jalen Hurts- Way too many throws lack velocity. Accurate leading away from coverage and likes downfield air also. AA make him intriguing, but I don’t see enough arm talent to be a “traditional” type QB. Gotta pull for him and another guy I really want to like, but.....the lack of arm appears too often for him to be "pacing" his throws.

    9. James Morgan- Has “enough” everything but does not stand out in any particular skill set. Looks like a good leader that understands pace, velocity and makes good decisions.

    10. Broc Rutter North Central College- Never heard of him but Miami Herald dropped his name so I checked him out…..If I had any guts at all I would rank this kid between Montez and Hurts but the small school background makes him questionable and a long shot. But the skill set is obvious. This guy can definitely drive the ball, very decisive and has a good feel for the game. Really solid athlete with a Brett Favre type style. Competitive. Almost a perfect fit for a “Gailey” offense throwing the ball. Highlights make him look like a Rhythm guy that is very comfortable with intermediate throws on a line and can but does not often put air under a deep throw (but CAN from what I see). Limited to highlights but some darn interesting highlights.

     
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  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Do you see any of those tier 2 or 3 guys worth taking a flyer on in the late rounds? I haven't watched Eason at all and I don't know where he's projected...I'd just really like to grab a QB without trading up or spending #5.
     
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  3. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Eason tier 1? Can I have some of what you're smoking breh?

    I would take Love or Fromm over Eason.

    But my guy is Herbert. I will not be unhappy if we pick Tua though. I think they have about an equal amount of potential.

    The only thing I will be unhappy with is if we trade away our draft for Burrow or even hand away draft picks to move up ahead of Detroit.

    Stay where we are, whoever is there between Tua and Herbert is my pick. Keep all our picks and build up our team by making more good picks.

    If Tua and Herbert are both there, my personal preference is Herbert, but like I said I won't be upset with Tua, I'll let the Fins scout team make that decision.
     
  4. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    He's projected a 2 maybe even fall to rd 3. Tua and Herbert won't leave the 1st round, I don't get how OP thinks he's "tier 1."
     
  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The OP used to play college quarterback and grading QB's pre-draft has always been his thing, so I take his opinion over most. Eason wouldn't have been in my personal top 7 but I'm an amateur when it comes to this stuff.
     
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  6. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Thats respectable and all, but I haven't heard anyone who knows football putting him in the top tier, and I from what I've seen I don't see why they would. I'd be interested in an explanation why the OP thinks so. I don't even think he should be rated higher than Hurts.. but what do I know I didn't play college ball lol.
     
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  7. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    Maybe he actually watched the kid play football. I'm assuming you haven't. Eason has also been projected in the 15-20 range with us and the Raiders being likely spots.

    This years draft, especially with 2cents top four lines up a lot like the 2012 draft. Eason is playing the Role of Thill with Burrow and Tua being Luck and RG3. Do you see it? And Jalen Hurts is going to play the Russel Wilson part. Love could be Cousins
    And like I said then, the third guy picked, in this case Eason is going to have the longest most productive NFL career. Book it.
    Eason has all the skills, he needs two years to develop and then he's off to the races.
    I would be very happy to see us trade down, build more picks for this year and next and pick Eason at 26 or 39. Get DL and a S and a C and a G . Much rather that then trade up for Tua.


    I would actually switch Tua and Herbert in 2 cents lineup. Not a believer in Tua. He's got an RG3 career ahead of him I think.
     
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  8. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree on all but 3 things.

    1. Herbert should be at 3. I’ll explain why why I get to reason #2. The gap between Herbert and Tua imo is thin. They have different concerns and both at their best could be pro bowl level QBs.

    2. Flip Eason and Fromm please. Eason couldn’t beat out Fromm (that’s how he’s ended up at Washington) at Georgia. Fromms biggest wart is his arm strength. And I realize his 2019 tape wasn’t as good as 2018 but it’s not a Jordan Love level regression or anything close. In fact Fromm performed well overall. His arm strength is what knocks him down but I think if you sit him for a year he’s likely to give you a Chad a Pennington type career. He’s strong in accuracy, progression, pre snap reads and mechanics. A team like Tennessee or New Orleans or God forbid NE imo make a lot of sense. Good coaches will love the mental aspect from him.

    Jacob Eason is a player I want to like. He looks the part. But then you put the film in and its just a disappointment. The arm and accuracy is good but the mental aspect is just slow and the scouting reports reflect what’s happening on film. Literally everything here is related to slow mental processing and it’s showing up on college tape it’s going to show up even more in Sunday’s imo. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jacob-eason?id=32194541-5338-2386-3401-72035bd47e1c

    3. Flip Hurts and Love. And then move Love down a few slots. Here’s A snippet of what I wrote in Club about Love and again it shows when you watch them.

    People talk about Herberts accuracy but Loves is pitiful. Love had a turnover worthy play on 4.7% of his plays last year according to PFF (109/136).

    Louis Riddick thinks Love will go sooner then he should and this is from his twitter account (pulled from Barry Jackson):
    .

    Kyle Crabbs and the rest of the analysts at The Draft Network plus Lance Zerlein (NFL.com) universally agree decision making is his worst trait and on tape it shows.

    PFF has 44% of Loves throws in to tight windows as uncatchable and 44% of his throws under pressure as uncatchable. So basically, despite more then adequate arm strength, he can’t thread a needle and he can’t do anything under pressure.

    There are other issues to be concerned with as well. His release is long and winding and combined with his below average footwork, one can understand one of the big reasons for his accuracy issues. Love stares down receivers frequently and does not throw with anticipation but for rare occasions. He struggles greatly with eye manipulation and holding safeties. 31.8% completion rate on throws over 25 yards.

    Overall this is a QB with a lot of issues. There’s no consistency at all to his game other then the mental part of his game is well behind any physical traits he may possess

    Overall this is my rating and projection where they get picked (you’ll note I do believe some players will get picked higher then players I like but imo that’s due to poor evaluations)
    1. Burrow 1st pick
    2A. Tua Top 5
    2B. Herbert (listed like this to reflect the narrow difference imo) Top 7
    4. Fromm R2
    5. Hurts Late 2/Early3
    6. Anthony Gordon R4/R5
    7. Jacob Eason R2/R3
    8. Jordan Love R2/R3
     
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  9. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    It's OK, I have dealt with this many many times and I would say those that remember back in the day I generally outpicked some of the people that are the supposed "draftniks" and "experts" (Larry English argument being one of the best...) I am not relying on what I hear to a great degree but rather what I see on film that is generally much deeper than just a highlight film. Love has to reach back too much for my liking to develop velocity, his platform is heavy towards his back shoulder meaning he is reaching back and he does this even on the flat passes. He does not seem to be able to stay flat and generate natural velocity. I want to like Love also but see a lot of issues. Fromm does not have enough natural velocity but his feel is far better than Love. IMO Love just has waaaay too far to go and is a really good athlete that likes the deep throw with air.

    I can go into a lot of detail on why I like Eason but he is decisive and his eyes dart around to find open guys rather than a coached down progression that a guy like Anthony Gordon has. So he shows some ability to identify that Weill help him develop more instincts whereas a guy like Gordon is TOO well coached and is an A, B, C read type QB, a little like RT17 was coming out. That is the short version. What I see on film tells me Eason has an underrated instinct level. His arm cannot be questioned.
     
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  10. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    I think Steven Montez is a guy that has some tools that may be more than what he is projected top be. He has a big league arm and his play while a bit on the emotional side is confident and decisive. He also placed some balls I saw in really good spots for YAC so he looks like he can be very accurate when his mechanics are spot on, so I think Montez isa guy that is "tier 2" that has some upside. I think Love is a tier two guy that will go R1 IMHO. Anyone picking him is banking on his upside. He has personality, competitive, AA but I just don't see his arm value as R1 Arm value. Loves the long ball too much also. But he is a tier two guy but won't have tier two value as he will be a R1 guy. But he has a shot.

     
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  11. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Well I am the OP, so I will tell you how. I played the game played the position at the college level, so I generally know what I am looking at.

    His profile is very balanced and he does not overstride or lose profile to achieve velocity. His hand placement is the best of the group as far as an being open faced release point, this is what leads to control of the football. He has a short backside release which means he is high on the ball, and his release point is at a high point. He has good timing in his rotation and his set to release is quick, high and compact. He drives the ball effortlessly and shows some good ball placement. His intermediate strike level is a good ten yards deeper due to his arm strength and delivery than the rest of this group. That is sorta the "mechanical side".

    On the sorta "projection" side I can see why he would get knocked down due to lack of film and lack of snaps. He did not have tons of open receivers at UW so you do get to see some ball placement. Your projecting his upside because the PAC 12 is not exactly the worlds best defensive conference but you can see his confidence in balls inside the has which is the indicator of his overall confidence level...there is a saying in baseball that you see what a pitcher is on the 1-1 pitch because the disparity in results is so huge between being 1-2 and 2-1 so a pitcher throws his best pitch in that spot...the same concept applies at QB and the situation is 3rd and 6 plus...you get a kids best on 3/and 6. I watched several 3rd and six throws and he is decisive quick and what really stood out is he went quick snap on most which means he identified the right play and made the right throw. His stats on third and six are ahead of Love, slightly better than Fromm, but behind Burrow and Tua....but those guys are all head and shoulders above the "field". who knows on the arbitrary side of evaluation but he has all the traits showing that he has instinct feel and can identify...he just does not have enough game film.....personally I think he will be far undewrdrafted as the word is his interviews came off cocky....but we will see....I will stand by my eval.

     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  12. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    I can see everything you state except for the mental part of Easons game. I think it is specifically the opposite. I think he processes very fast particularly pre snap. He can be late at his level post snap because his arm bails him out, but for the most part his thought to release is quick...again I can respectfully agree with 90% of what you post but the 10% on Easons ability to process info I vehemently disagree and in fact would take the EXACT opposite point.

     
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  13. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If we pick Eason at any point, I’ll hope you’re correct. In the meantime I truly don’t see it. :ffic:
     
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  14. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Looks like this was probably his best game of 2019, when you consider the level of competition he faced throughout the season:

     
  15. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Yes likely was his best. Stanford likely his worst. Another tidbit is when you watch the video there is a tell from all QB's when they are under center, he (Eason) totally turns his back and picks up his receivers before he sets and bounces...this means he has a feel for where they will be and he makes decisive throws off that (instincts)....then take a look at Fromm (sidesaddle) or Love (can't find any, maybe some pistol formation...) or Burrow (slower identifying than Eason...) in that very same situation.......it is interesting.

     
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  16. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Cool. I appreciate you taking the time to expand on your analysis of him.

    From what I've seen, he's not our guy. But you seem to have spent a lot more time evaluating him. So while I value your opinion on him more that you gave an explanation, I also have to take other experts opinions, as well as what I've seen with my own eyes. From what I've seen, and from what 'they' say, he's not a tier 1 guy, but in the end you may be right. But again I appreciate you expanding on it regardless.
     
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  17. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Not a problem IdrA. In the end you might be right, someone else might be right. We all see what we see, or we all have sources we value over others or skill sets we value over other skill sets...its all good. Love is head shoulders above Joe Burrow if you value athletic ability, but obviously that is an abstract. Eason is not your guy if you value athletic ability or pace throwing the football, a guy like Fromm might be...he is a fastball thrower and Fromm is a craft curveball guy....but there are spots for both. I am not sure exactly what Love is but he plays a lot of sandlot type ball from multiple platforms and arm angles.

    The hard part is not to fall in love with what you value to the detriment of what will ultimately make a guy successful. Its possible for both guys to see a player accurately and one end up being wrong on them depending on how the player is used or what system the end up in.....

    I go back to the infamous Larry English disagreement here that got very heated, I saw the same things that everyone else saw in Larry English, burst, hands, counter moves, but the constant with him was he was easily blocked if you player him passively off the ball and aggressively off the set...he had skills that were easily defended....I thought he was a rush LB and he would be in the 90's or so, and it ended up being spot on because his trick got him on the radar but was a trick that was never going to get him far in the NFL and he was not well rounded enough to develop off that skill.

    I saw Charles Harris as easily defended and got grief over that also....I remember the Turner versus Hartline debate and I was a biiiig Hartline supporter in that spot in the draft because he was a natural receiver, he lined up his cuts on the off shoulder, was always on balance and got played into his cuts, he never tangle footed and was always solid in his base and cuts, he could track the ball......Turner could high point the ball and had straight line speed, and it just did not translate to me.

    I say this not to document but because it examples that it all depends on where guys are drafted and what we value when we judge them. RT17 was a GREAT draft pick, at 45...lousy at 8......Fromm may be a great pick for Miami or New England but a terrible pick for Tampa. It all depends where they end up. Look at John Rosen, I think he has big time talent but he is on his fifth OC in 6 years and all with vastly different schemes.....and now he is labeled and is a character actor backup.

    In the end we will find out in a few years how it pans out. I have been plenty wrong on guys before after looking long and hard at them.

     
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  18. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    The pic on the video cover is a good representation of ball control...Easons release as you can see is out front and he has separation on the ball and he is showing you his hand...Fromm just as an example shows you his wrist and cups the ball scooping it underneath...this takes away velocity and control. I also think it has something to do with Fromms small hands but maybe not..... I think this is the main reason Fromm was a Biot wild high and late this year.....not sure why no one corrected it but it is not a naturally easy thing to correct after a gazillion throws in your life......I will try and find a pic that examples this.

     
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  19. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  21. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Although a different angle than the Eason and Fromm view, it is relatively at the same point of release as the other two....Notice he is showing the side of his hand downfield when he should be showing you his hand. He is on the side of the ball and this leads to poor control. Likely he is substituting velocity and spin for control.......
     
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  22. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Look at the ball angle of the three......the ball is going to be high from Fromm or Love (scooping the ball)...Eason is driving the ball flatter with a higher drive shoulder angle...I get these are just one off cutaways but it manifests itself in what these guys are mechanically and the results.
     
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  23. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fromms delivery is not quite over the top but not quite 3/4 level in this frame. I hadn’t noticed that arm slot from him much but I’ll have to review that as I wasn’t particularly looking for it. His mechanics look a lot better in that frame then Easons as Eason looks far too open on his right side.

    Being as accurate as he is if he’s at that arm slot regularly tells me with the right adjustments to his arm slot he’s a very viable QB and likely to be very effective in a WCO style timing based offense. It is a terrible idea for any QB to be directly over the top and it’s something Justin Herbert is guilty of as well which is why some of his passes come out inaccurate and one reason why I believe Herbert can improve his accuracy since it’s due to a mechanical flaw. I can understand why Fromm at his height may find the need to occasionally go over the top but Herbert should never need to.

    If anyone reading is wondering why you don’t go over the top delivering a football it’s because it opens your front hips up too much and you can’t throw accurately to a particular side of the field. You see this in Justin Herberts tape where he is consistently low when throwing short and to the left. He’s not the first QB to be guilty of it and it’s correctable. Additionally, a pitcher throws a baseball over the top because you want it on a downward trajectory and in football that’s not always the case.
     
  24. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Fromm had serious problems throwing the football at the Combine... No velocity.. no accuracy.. He was unable to make throws..He looked bad.... No way I would draft him at all
     
  25. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the "big 4" (Burrow, Tua, Love, Herbert), it is entirely possible that one of those guys could fall surprisingly far. I suspect that Cincinnati, Miami, and LA will take QBs with their first picks. Penciling in that 4th could be tricky.

    Carolina (7) - They are a team that definitely could take one, but if they pass, I would be very nervous if I was the remaining QB.

    Jacksonville (9,20) - They will be another team that could consider a QB. If they do not select a QB at 9, I couldn't really see them doing it at 20. They either believe in Minshew or they don't. From what I can gather, I do not think they will select a QB at 9 unless a QB that they love slips.

    Raiders (12,19) - These guys seem to be the wild card. Clearly Gruden wants to upgrade at QB. He brought in and paid Mariota fairly well and tendered Peterman. Carr is getting a decent amount for a QB. Clearly by their actions, the desire is there to upgrade, but would he select one? I think he could be a draft day surprise and package both ones up to get someone he likes. Like, if you have the picks, and you like a guy, you move up and get him, right? I think if the Raiders want a QB, you will probably know before they are scheduled to be on the clock.

    Now suppose these teams all pass. Where would the odd-man-out wind up? It is harder than you'd think to pencil in a location. Keep an eye out for someone to fall.
     
  26. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Thats kinda correct......but it is more about clearing your hips and the timing in your rotation...Eason rotates vertically and early and Fromm rotates with a sorta vertical rotation and late arm action. His hips are a sort of "swinging gate" where Eason has a more violent rotation outside in of his plant foot. The hand is big key to watch to see what sort of control you can project....Eason keys the ball more out on his fingers and Fromm more back on his palm...Eason has a "snappier" delivery leading with his elbow and early rotation and Fromm has a late slower arm action.

    Rotation timing is a tough thing to teach this late in a guys career and with the way the game is changing guys are throwing from more slots, platforms and angles that a "typical" drop back scheme, so that in itself would downgrade Eason as he is [retty much a pocket guy that needs some room to operate..

    the other thing that should be noted is that of the guys who "step into" pockets. Fromm does have some advanced skills there....if you watch closely you will see how often both Hebert and Eason rotate out of the pocket when pressure comes under them...Fromm steps up inside the pressure...Fromm does have some solid knowledge of the game that translates and some picket awareness and instincts, but the arm is a big big question.

     
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  27. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    I think the only reason Herbert and Love are even mentioned in the same breath as Burrow and Tua is because of the league's desperation for top QBs. If the QB position were as important to the game as let's say the defensive tackle position (i.e., middle of the road in importance), Herbert and Love wouldn't even be first-round picks.

    I think you make a big mistake if you trade back from a spot where you could get Burrow or Tua, thinking you can get players like Herbert and Love and do just as well with them, with the requisite "supporting cast." I would rather trade UP for Burrow or Tua than do that.
     
  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Thanks 2 Cents. Awesome knowledge being dropped in here.
     
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  29. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Fromm could not make the throws at the combine... He looked terrible... Jalen Hurts went there and was matching Herbert throw for throw.... Fromm could not make simple throws... It was ugly
     
  30. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    I am not the biggest Herbert fan.... But if you think you could trade down and gain an extra first round pick and still get Herbert 9th overall? Yeah I would roll the dice. The coaches and scouts know more than we do... and if they saw something positive in Herbert and thought they could work with him...Do it.

    We would have the 18th, 20th, and 26th picks.... And then two picks in the second round... this is just sick

    Hope Kinlaw drops to 18... Andrew Thomas is in play there possible... otherwise take Mckinney
    Take Mckinney if he is there 20, or Epenesa... A couple of these players will drop and be there..
    Take Mims 26th

    So first round

    Herbert, Thomas, Mckinney, Mims

    Wow that is an amazing foundation to build with

    Second round take Zack Baun and Cushenberry... Really solidify the O line and the linebacker position

    With Mckinney at safety and Baun at linebacker... with our corners... We would easily have a top 10 defense.

    With Thomas and Cusheberry added to the Offensive line Fitzmagic would have time to throw... and our running game would come alive.

    With the special teams players we have... A top defense and a running game... The Dolphins would be a team nobody wants to play...

    No glaring weakness.
     
  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Another question Ray- walk us thru Tua. Yes or no at #5? And would you move up for him if necessary?

    (this is Keith, by the way)
     
  32. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Keith, what's up...back where we started, lol....

    First look at what Tua works with. He is generally outclassing his opponent, he is relatively small, his arm is only slightly above average, he has a lot of wide open WR's, rumor is he came off bad in interviews, he has not handled the pre draft process well, he has a lengthy injury history, there is likely a little Josh Hamilton hesitation around him (for reference Josh Hamilton was a choir boy consensus #1 pick in MLB out of HS, that had big issues). That said he has elite ball placement skills, feels pressure really well, is mobile enough, he slides around well in the pocket, he steps up in the pocket and does not bail all the time, keeps his eyes downfield and has remarkable instincts, makes place off schedule, and is elite processing info. Plus he is pretty solid mechanically.

    Who knows how these guys rank him V. Hebert. I would personally have Hebert ever so slightly higher because he is a slightly lower risk. I think if Tua's body holds up then he has enough going for him upstairs that he can become elite. But you have to check some boxes first.

    I obviously don't know what they will do, but my gut tells me they will value Hebert over Tua, but so might someone else wanting to trade up.

    But to answer your question directly from my view only I would stay put at 5 and take my chances that I don't lose out on both Tua and Hebert which is a long shot. But I am OK with either at 5.

    Personally I am much higher on Eason than most but he just has so little film that you cannot make an absolute determination on him. Again I seriously doubt they do but I would consider Eason at 18 and taking OT1 or Pass rusher 2 at 5. I have him as QB4, not Love. In the end, I "predict" the draft comes off like this:

    1. Burrow to Cincy
    2. Young to Washington
    3. Hebert to Chargers (trade)
    4. Simmons to NYG
    5. Tua to Miami

    I stay put........too much compression between QB's 2,3,4......

     
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  33. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I am 100% confident that Herbert would be a 1st rounder in virtually ever year. Big guys with arms like that do not come around every year. I really, really think a lot of his flaws are overstated.
     
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  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the insight- and I have a feeling you're correct on the draft order as well. I have heard Washington has been looking really, really hard at Simmons but I don't see how they could pass on Young...they could shock us all though and draft Tua or Herbert.

    Mt favorite QB in this draft (besides Burrow...he's the real deal) would be Jalen Hurts. I know his arm isn't 100% there with the others but the guy bleeds leadership. I'd love to see him on the roster as a QB2/QB3 for a couple years. Again though, Burrow looks incredible and he churned out one of the best college seasons I've ever seen from a QB. His poise is otherworldly for a kid that age...

    I think I'd also take Herbert over Tua...it's possible they're both still there at 5 and that decision will be talked about for a decade or more, hopefully someone does trade up and grabs one of them so we "can't" pick the wrong guy. I believe Tua is slightly better of the two but the injury aspect terrifies me.
     
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  35. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Nice writeup! I like that staying at #5 part, which means we will trade up and give away valuable picks. ;-)
     
  36. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I dont really have a hardcore opinion on Eason, but I definitely wouldnt have him above Herbert.

    My top 5:

    1) Herbert - Has all the tools necessary to compete at the NFL level, mentally and physically. Has a few kinks to work out in his delivery, but had he been playing for an Alabama or LSU I believe he puts up numbers similar to Burrow/Tua and gets more recognition.

    2) Burrow - I have questions about his ability to fit the ball into tight windows, but he seems to have all the mental abilities you look for in a QB. His arm isnt quite a noodle, but I'd like his floor to be something like Pennington. A guy who understands and can lead an offense with his command of the offense. If he comes in with a gunslinger LSU jump ball philosophy, he will fail IMO.

    3) Tua - Just barely behind Burrow. Despite his accuracy I dont like his deep throw mechanics (takes too long at times) and also question his ability to fit balls in. I believe most of his concerns are similar to Burrow.

    4) Jalen Hurts - Outside the top 3, I dont see anyone NFL ready. So my #4 is the one I believe has the highest ceiling of the remaining QB.

    5) Love - I actually dont like him as a prospect, but his ceiling is high if you believe you can sit him a year or two and teach him to efficiently run the offense. The skill set is there, but I'm not fond of him. I dont consider he or Hurts a first rounder obviously.
     
  37. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Alex

    Burrow is the only QB potentially ready to start day one after the draft... Tua is hurt and Herbert could use some coaching up... Love is a basket case... Hurts needs to work on little things timing and development of routes.
     
  38. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    I hope this forum won't be upset if the Fins pick Herbert at 5. He's just as good as Tua, and he doesn't have health '???s' At least from the film i've seen of him. He might even be a better all around passer than Tua. But Tua might move around a little better, but Herb is good in the pocket and can take off like Tannehill did (just hopefully not so robotically sry Tanne But if we want a guy who can run really good we may as well pick Hurts. I want a guy who can make every throw. The best prospect for that in this draft is Burrow/Herbert... imo
     
  39. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    I am not sold on Herbert...

    But the kid is big, strong, he has a plus arm and he runs pretty well. In those areas he is a little like a young Tannehill.

    Reading the scouting reports Herbert needs a lot of work on touch... footwork... all solvable issues... But there is no way he should be starting from day one.

    Honestly I think we could trade down to the 9 or the 12 spot and land Herbert.... And if we did that I would have no issue with it. I trust Flores and his coaches to develop talent
     

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