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I have changed my mind... First round of the draft and Mock

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Etrius24, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I'd be damn happy with these 3 first picks. I'm think the FO will be able to get a few more interior OL in FA or later on in the draft. As long as they can get their RB in the 2nd, and I think this RB class is very deep so it is likely, I'd pull the trigger 10/10 for this.
     
  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    He's up near Boone. I'm on the outskirts of Boiling Springs, SC. My wife and my brother both work in Landrum.
     
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  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Probably not....there are several in this draft with similar grades and we should be okay at 18 to grab one. But if we want a top LT, then that #18 is going to be the pick. And if we do draft Tua, then #18 will be a RT since Tua is a leftie.
     
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  4. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    You might be right, but what I see is that he gears down into cuts and is not sudden enough out of his cuts to create separation. He does not line up well into route side "shoulders" and rounds off his routes on the top. You can trail him in man and he is covered all day. He is not sudden or twitchy enough to create space when transitioning zones and seems to feel his way through zone horizontally...so he IMHO Will be a guy that makes a few plays going away from the LOS and when he can high point a ball occasionally but he does not play to his size or speed in my opinion. I don't see his speed as being functional speed. He (Mims) might be a better target for a Tampa type Arians offense that has a lot of throws upfield away from the LOS or Arizona where they run a lot of clearing/find space routes where rounding the top does not matter as much, he also might be a guy that runs the top off under routes and helps that way...but Gailey is going to run a lot of timing combination under/cross routes where separation and timing are going to be key and then take strategic shots down field....although Gailey is adaptable that is his M.O.

    Again IMHO only, Four guys that show much better functional speed than Mims and don't run 4.38 are John Hightower from Boise, Joe Reed from Virginia, Gabriel Davis from UCF, and Brandon Aiyuk from Arizona ... maybe KJ Osborn from Miami/Buffalo. Hightower is a guy in particular that has all the "tools" but does not seem real physical or competitive for the ball...but if a paycheck relies on that he might get motivated or maybe it is something you can coach, but I think in the right situation Hightower in particular could be a guy that you get fantastic draft value for, and a Flores type coach might be the situation he needs.

    I do love Dillon though, wish his pad level were a little lower through the LOS but he will be (way) under drafted imho. But again those are just my opinions and either one of us could be right for wrong.

     
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  5. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Watch Ezra Cleveland at 26. His floor there is you drop him down to guard and you have a plug and play guard for 8 years, but I am not so sure he is not a solid tackle........I watched Boise more than most and he and Hightower are legit IMHO.

     
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  6. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Another WR to maybe watch is a projection but Malcom Perry the Navy QB is about as shifty as they get. He is a 4.6 type guy but plays 4.4 and will slide, maybe a lot because of corona and not being able to see his hands and drills. He is one that this situation definitely hurts and he could slide through the cracks but I personally see enough tough in him and stop start shifty twitch to him to think he could project damn well to WR with his floor being a functional slot guy...and his ceiling being pretty high on the boundary, so if you get him 175 or later you might strike gold. I might keep one of those late picks to roll the dice on this kid and maybe the Broc Rutter kid at QB.
     
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  7. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Surfs up

    Burrow concerns me in that we have to give up three first round picks to get him... ugh
     
  8. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    I literally live on the NC/SC state line off asheville Hwy... Landrum/Tryon
     
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  9. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    This year is intriguing as all heck...paying 3 R1 guys in 4-5 years strains the system but if you get your franchise QB then you get the rookie option on year 5.......lots of stuff at play...but I think it all plays to taking your QB at 5.

    You have a big gap between Wirfs, Becton, Wills, and Thomas. They should all go in the first 14 as I think Tampa takes OT4.....then you have a gap down to the mid 20's area where Jones, Cleveland, Jackson,vWilson and maybe Wanogho slot. I can see taking any of the five that slide to 18 but I seriously doubt they do or taking any of the second tier at 26. If you want one of the big four and take your QB at 5 then you likely have to move up to 13 our less since Tampa is likely in the market for a tackle, and you don't know what happens in front of you trade wise either so even that is not a given...I think it is unlikely that they take a OT at 18 as it is likely not very good value, and I don't see anyone moving back that are drafting 8-14.

    If you look at specific value at 18 there should be some WR value (one of Jefferson, Lamb, Juedy or Ruggs should be there if not 2), and DB might offer some value (Henderson, McKinney, Delpit, Diggs, Fulton, Gladney are all guys that "could" go before slot 22) I would look within that group for your pick, and although neither is a massive need to me it looks like that is where the value will be (if you stay at 18). If youre looking for a specific guy or two that could fall there then Kinlaw has a chance to slide some. You could always go Tackle at 5, and trade back from 18 to lower 20's if you don't Like Love since someone will and pick up a 1 next year and a middle pick, maybe exchange some slots. You could defer your and keep your options pen and do something creative, For instance Jacksonville could like Love at 18 and you get next years 1 and pick 42, Jacksonville keeps pick 20. Then you have your RT, 3 first rounders next year (the Lawrence, Fields year) and still have pick 28 to get QB 5 if you have a conviction on someone else. use 28 or 39 on your QB and cover yourself with having 3 R1's next year....or maybe Indy likes Love at 18 and gives up 34 and 44 for 18 if you get your QB at 5 and trade out of 18 all together with Indy then have your QB, a FA haul, and 28/34/39/44 to fill your needs.......

     
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  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'm on Rainbow Lake Road...maybe 10-15 minutes max from you. My brother works at Boots & Sunnys restaurant in Landrum and my wife's right around the corner at the Charles Lea Center. Small world!
     
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  11. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Thanks for your thoughts! How do you view the RB position? Does it have as much value as WR? So for discussion purposes, at #18 or #26, would it be better for our offense to take one of the stud WR like Jefferson, Lamb, Juedy, or Ruggs or should we opt for someone like D'Andre Swift, Dobbins, or CEH? I mentioned before that I liked AJ Dillon later, but you never know if he will be available.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  12. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    I live next door to the vintage gas station on the state line (It's an Esso station. ) Two story Farmhouse.
     
  13. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    If he turned into a 12 year franchise QB? Totally worth the cost in draft picks. If he busts, you have to fire EVERYONE. I'd roll those dice for two first rounders this year and one in 2021. Also, three first rounders is not a bad deal to get up to #1 when it involves getting a QB.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  14. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    I know exactly where your at...wow, small world bro!

     
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  15. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Cannot see the pictures you posted... Guess it is that old timey gas station next door to me?
     
  16. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    The top 3 RB's should all be in the 25-45 range. Again this year is intriguing from a strategy standpoint because they have so many holes and so many opportunities to line up with those holes...so you will get an idea of what Grier values for the long term, Personally my theory (worthless as it may be since I don't run an NFL team....) is that you take impact positions in the first 65 picks....Blindside tackles, shut down corners, edge rushers and of course overdraft QB's.

    Wr's and RB's come in that 25-60 range. I personally did not see a RB that I would take in the first 35 or so and then my order would be Taylor, Akers, Dobbins, Swift. but again that is my ranking and not how I think they will come off the board. There is a top group of RB's from the way these guys rank them I think and that is your big 4 Swift,Taylor, Dobbins and CEH. But IMHO they do not start to slot until 35 or so. There is compression between the first and second Tier in my opinion when you get to Akers, Moss, McFarland, Dillon, Perrine. I personally like the value in the second tier and think there are some solid prospects with big upside later in that third tier, I especially like Darrynton Evans from App State and DeeJay Dallas from Miami, and I would keep an eye on the Brian Herrien kid from Georgia who was a late qualifier and got stuck behind Swift and some others and lacks wow speed but he is a solid back with good hands and 4.6 type game speed, that you can get real late IMHO.

    I don't think they go RB in R1 or R2 (39) but they well could, but I think you could be looking at two backs, one from that second tier and a high upside kid like Darrynton Evans in the late 5-6th area.

    To answer your question I would rather reach a bit at a guy like Gross Matos, AJ Epensea, James Lynch or Ezra Cleveland as a possible "impact" guy a little earlier than they slot rather than reach for a RB before 56. If they Akers is sitting there at 56 and he should be in the 50-75 range then I would love to have him be the choice and then pick up another in the 5-6 range.

    But that is just me. Give me Akers, and Evans(or)Dallas and I am good at RB.


     
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I remember seeing the Esso station last month when we hit the little Mexican restaurant right down the street from it. I'm at 40 Ridings Rd Campobello, SC so we're about 15 minutes apart. If you've ever been to/heard of the Moonshiners Festival on Rainbow Lake Rd, I live like a block away from that.

    Let's grab lunch one of these days if we're ever allowed outside again, LOL!
     
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  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    LOL, when/why have you been to Tryon, NC of all places? That's crazy. =)
     
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  19. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    I used to cut over thru Tryon and take the back way (from Landrum)and catch 26 up at Columbus. The subway at the Campobello exit 10 at the gas station was my landmark lunch spot......confusing as heck the first couple times with the roundabout at Columbus entrance to 26.

     
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  20. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Deal

    I have a funny story to tell you...

    So a few years back I was out with friends we were having a few beers and there was this guy with a Marino jersey and Dolphins hat.... It was the first Dolphins Jersey I had seen in South Carolina in 15 years. LOL I was so excited I bought the guy a drink and went to talk to him.... He acted all weird... He thought I was hitting on him.... LOL I had to explain I was just happy to finally see another actual Dolphins fan in the Carolinas.
     
  21. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    The Roundabouts are still there but they have made major improvements... To go from Highway 74 to the interstate you no longer have to get off the interstate and go through the town... They made bypasses and it makes things so much easier...
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I've gone to a few Dolphins/Panthers games in Charlotte over the years and it always amazed me when half the stadium is wearing Aqua and Orange. I know a few Fin fans in this area but not many....My2Cents was one of the bigger ones and he's a few hours into the mountains.

    A cook at Golden Corral in Spartanburg is a die-hard Fins fanatic (skinny white guys, 40's, missing one of his front teeth) and I know one other older fella in Chesnee, but that's really about it besides my dad (who lives with me).

    IdrA on this site lives about 20-30 minutes south of you but I haven't met him in person yet either....seems like a good guy though.
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they're a lot better now and very easy to navigate. I used to get on 74 just to bypass that area since it was such a pain to get on/off.
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Well, your Subway is still there and well....there's also one at exit 5 now as well. Those two are basically my go-to COVID stores outside of Costco every two weeks. It is a really small world! LOL, I'm in the middle of nowhere!
     
  25. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Keyfin

    I moved here almost 17 years ago. No Dolphin fans I ever saw in Greenville SC... I then moved to the low state ... Florence... No fin fans I saw there either. Then I moved to the Wilmington NC area.... Nope never ran into a Dolphins fan.

    Lived in Maine and Vermont... moved back to Tryon NC almost 6 years ago. I just saw a guy here in Tryon... Older guy I met at the IGA with Dolphin swag on.... We talked for five minutes about the Dolphins the day they signed flowers... I think he was shocked someone came up to him and talked about the Dolphins and the draft... LOL
     
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  26. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    But does Mims play the slot? Is that his forte? I didn't watch the entire video but from what I saw, he lines up on the outside. That's what he does. He's a perimeter receiver.

    Teams screw up so many times drafting a player because of the skills he displays in college...and then try to change him into something he isn't, causing him to be labeled a bust.

    If Mims, or any other player for that matter fits your team's scheme, then get him but don't be STUPID and try and change WHAT has made a player successful.
     
  27. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Honestly there isnt a RT in this draft with the pass blocking ability to go #18 overall, that I can think of anyway.

    If you plan to take a LT and move him to RT, that is possible but will require growing pains from a rookie that already had a lot to adjust to at the NFL level.
     
  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It's an adjustment but I think people blow it out of proportion; in high school I played mainly left guard but they switched me to LT and RT my senior year as needed. Later I coached line in high school and college- with the college team especially we'd have all the athletes learn all 5 positions whenever possible.

    Because here's the thing- if I was the left guard, I had to know what the tackle beside me was doing to know who to block. If the guy in the B gap shifted or a linebacker started creeping up, then I'd call it and the tackle would change his assignment accordingly. So I always knew what the guys on either side of me were doing plus what the QB, RB and TE were doing...we absolutely had to. The few games I started RT it was definitely an adjustment, but we're not talking months to get it down...we're talking a couple of days of practice getting in the reps and knowing what to look for from each opposing team's talent.

    I'm not trying to say it's not a big deal to switch up positions since it's definitely different. I was mainly a G because I could lay out the linebacker on runs better than anyone in high school or college, but I also had the footwork/technique to lock down an end whether he came with power or speed. It's really about having an athlete than anything though- one of my high school buddies was 6 5" and 320 pounds; he ran a 6.2 in the 40. He was a RT only because he didn't have that explosion off the ball, and he also got Div I offers. I was 5 11" and ran a 4.7 40, plus I benched and squatted more than him. Yet Division II/III colleges recruited me at all five line positions; I didn't have the size for Div I but I had everything else.

    That's the type of linemen we need to draft...the maulers that are also true athletes. Pouncey was that guy and so was Cogs and Long; they enjoyed lighting someone up and had the talent to do it consistently. You also see finesse guys that have perfect technique but very little aggression (Johnathan Martin is a prime example); if they don't have that toughness, that meanness plus natural ability and talent, the rest just doesn't work out at the NFL level. We need tough, versatile linemen 1st and foremost.

    I screwed up in high school and should have been a fullback, but I loved playing line because I could dominate. I was always faster than the guy opposite me and the technique doesn't matter as much when you can just knock someone on their *** on passing or run downs...and there are several 300+ pound athletic freaks like that in this draft. It's not a problem to flip a guy like that over to RT if you have a full training camp ahead of you; as a rookie, they'll miss some stuff regardless because the NFL is so complex.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
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  29. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    That is good insight.

    I definitely dont think its impossible. I'm more pointing out it's tough enough to transition to the NFL without having to try and completely flip/mirror your technique to the other side.

    Some guys seem to adapt immediately and others struggle. I think part if it might have to do with how much preference you give to one side/how comfortable you are generally.

    For example, I'm pretty good with both hands at most tasks. If I had to go full lefty, I'd probably have it down within a week for mostly all tasks, writing, eating, so on. Other people cant use their left/right side for the life of them.

    I'd think most athletes arent useless with one side obviously lol but some may be more than others.

    I also think switching guards might be slightly easier, there is definitely still technique that gets changed, but generally they arent dealing with pass rush specialists on the same caliber as a Tackle.

    Anyway, if we do plan to flip someone in person visits/workouts would be a huge plus. You could actually get a taste of how they respond to the change.
     
  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, in both high school and college I was a better athlete than the guy lined up across from me...which meant when the ball was snapped, I was taking my 2nd step before the D-lineman took his 1st. 100% of the leverage was mine in those situations so I didn't care if it was a run or a pass....I knocked the guy on his ***. If it was a run play, I turned up-field and searched for a LB to hit, if it was a pass play, I'd jump on the DE and keep him down. Because no matter where I was on the line, the goal was to buy 2 seconds on a run play and 4 seconds on a pass...and it's so much freaking easier when you just lay someone out.

    Obviously you don't find that imbalance at the NFL level...DE's are often faster than RB's. But you still want that ultra aggressive, attack mentality to meet that rush at or beyond the LOS. If you wait for the rush to come to you, then you're shuffling feet and it becomes a balance game....much harder for huge guys to win those match-ups if they don't have freak agility for their size. That's why I said we want 6-7 maulers regardless- I don't think position is as important as people make it out to be. If a guy can't switch from LT to RT over a 3 month training camp, then I seriously question drafting him in the early rounds.

    With that said, I really believe you can build an all-star line thru UDFA alone if you have the right leaders scouting, in the front office and on the field. We just haven't had that system in place because the NFL doesn't value linemen like they do a safety, quarterback or linebacker. Line coaches are often one of the last positions filled despite having the greatest effect on the game...they're your chess pawns and it's almost impossible to win without them.
     
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  31. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Mims is a perimeter receiver mostly...

    Like I said perimeter guys almost always can come back to the slot if needed. It is nice to have the flexibility. On the Patriots they would move their receivers around to create mismatches. They moved the running backs around also... Making use of the wheel route.

    There is no downside to drafting a tall receiver with elite speed and incredibly long arms. Parker is lethal in the slot when used there...

    With three huge receivers on the field opposing defenses will not be able to match up.... How many teams have enough 6 foot 2 defensive backs to cover Parker, Williams, and Mims? I cannot think of many off the top of my head.

    Lots of perimeter receivers get drafted and earn their way onto the field starting in the slot.
     
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  32. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Wirfs and Thomas have both played on the right side before.

     
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  33. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Good info.

    Words, unless we trade up from #18 (or take him at #5 but I wouldmt do that) will be gone but Thomas is a possibility.
     
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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  35. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    On a PFT segment with Florio/Simms, they speculated it would take three 1st (including the 1 & 5 swaps) and a 2nd to trade up to the top spot. It could be a picks from this year and/or next year's draft. Simms said that he wouldn't recommend it because the difference between Burrow and Herbert isn't so big that it would warrant giving up so much considering the needs we have as a team. How would you feel about that? Would you make the trade? Me? I have said previously that I would trade the farm for a franchise QB. I just don't know if Burrow is a franchise QB or not. Right now, unless something comes along to help me change my mind, I am still in the stay at #5 and go with Tua or Herbert, or trade down for Hurts/Love/Eason camp.

    So lets say we would give up
    2020
    Pick #5
    Pick #26
    Pick #56

    2021
    Texans or our 1st round pick, whatever is lower.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'd trade the farm for Burrow...but that's based on what I saw watching LSU last year. To my eyes he looked fantastic, but I don't know QB's like the scouts/GM's do. If Miami feels he's a legit generational talent though, then they should absolutely move up and get their franchise quarterback.
     
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  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I think you have got to take a shot on a QB this year, can't think that you can go after Lawrence or someone next year. I personally was against trading up for Tua. I think I'm personally against taking him at 5 now, but what do I know. If you can get Burrow, I'm not gonna crucify the FO if they move up for him.

    Thought it was more interesting that the had Mims going in the first, given the discussion about him in this thread.
     
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  38. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    If a reasonable situation exists for us to take a QB.... Sure.

    Three first round picks + for Burrow... No
    Moving up for Tua... No
    Herbert or Love at #5.... No

    I want to add a QB to the roster... I do not think they should have to overpay for one though

    If Tua does not fall to the #5 pick and Herbert and Love are gone at the # 18 spot I am okay waiting until next year and drafting this kid

    https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2019-championship-trey-lance-ndsu-bzbz

    We have two first-round picks... and Lawrence is going to be the kid that gets drafted first. This kid is better than Love already... I cannot wait to see him continue to grow in College this upcoming season.
     
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  39. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Of course if we miss out on one of the top 4 or 5 QB's in the class at a value when we pick them I am all for taking Hurts, Gordon, or Flacco later.... They are low risk picks... If they do not pan out you gave up almost nothing... All for bringing someone in for Flores to coach up for a year... To push Rosen...

    Fact is we have Fitzmagic and he will be fine this season... So it is not the end of days at QB for us... Which is another reason I only want them to get a QB if it represents tremendous value. We have time... and we have two first-round picks in the draft next season
     
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  40. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I have a feeling this draft is going to surprise Dolphins fans...and not in a pleasant way. I have a feeling fans are going to take to the streets with proverbial pitchforks going after Frankenstein's monster...

    But if it goes the way I hope it's going to go, then I'm going to be happier than a pig in slop
     
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