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Who would be acceptable, if we didn't pick a QB at #5?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Surfs Up 99, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I'd say he's an A- prospect too. But you have those in the draft most years. He might be good, but he's not special in my eyes. He's also going to turn 24 this year, which is about as old as you can get while still being a legit prospect. He turned 23 before a lot of other QBs who are already in the league turned 22. He's not the kind of special that trading away multiple high picks is worthwhile.
     
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  2. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I'd be happy with DT Brown or SS/OLB Simmons at #5 overall.
     
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  3. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    I will not be happy if we don't pick Herbert. I will not be happy if we don't pick Tua. If one or both of them are there Herbert my happiness will be a 10. If we pick Tua with Herb still on the board my happiness will be about a 6. I've docked Tua some points based on his injuries, and his likliness for them to happen again and/or hamper his career. I'm a little scared of the Tua pick now, but no one can deny he's a top 3 talent when healthy (i don't think.) Still I've watched footage on all of the guys, not just highlights. Instead of breaking it all down I will just say... Justin Herbert's arm and accuracy impressed me as much if not more than Tua. He can make all the throws on point... He can hit targets running Vertical in stride just as well as he can throw the Go/deep slant type routes. He can progress through reads quickly. There is little down side to this guy. There is nit picky stuff.

    If we don't pick Herb/Tua at 5 my happiness meter will go down to about 3. That means we are vested in a 2nd tier (at best) QB project. I think we have the money to shore up the holes in FA we need to, I still think we will make more moves there, so there is no reason not to get the QB that has a higher potential of translating their talent to the NFL level.

    However... My happiness rating will go to a -5 if we give away our whole draft for Burrow. And about a 6 if we just trade this years #18 overall and two 2nds. If we offer Cinci more than that, which we would be expected too according to most pundits I'd be pissed. One guy I watched a video on said we need to offer #5 #18 #26 and our 1st in 2021 to move up to get Burrow. That's an absurd price. 4 firsts for a guy that has about a 10% chance more likely than Herbert or Tua to be a franchise QB? Not worth it.

    Sorry that was more of a general rant on the 3 options the Dolphins could take in this draft.
    -Trade away the farm(whole draft capital) for Burrow. (I hate this idea, and of course Ross loves it)
    -Stay where we are and pick Herbert/Tua.
    -Don't draft a QB at #5 and pick a a project at #18 or #26 or later.
    -Senselessly trade away a high 2nd and maybe even a first to get ahead of Detroit who may pick QB.

    So I guess technically there are 4 routes we could take. My choice is the simple one. Stay where we are and pick Herbert. If the Dolphins for whatever reason are higher on Tua or someone, that's my second choice. Bottom line is we pick a QB at #5, don't try to move up for burrow and don't pass on a tier 1 prospect. Keep all our draft capital and build the rest of the team.
     
  4. KCDolfan

    KCDolfan New Member

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    SF played a near flawess game for 3 1/2 quarters and still lost because KC had the better QB. With today's rules the theory that defense wins championships is obsolete. I think Mahomes and the Chiefs proved that. Get an elite QB with offensive weapons and and above average defense and you are in every game. I like the KC model. We need our Mahomes.
     
  5. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    No...

    Mahomes did not win the game by himself... The niners crapped the bed late. Mahomes did play well at the end of the game make no mistake... but it was gift wrapped by the terrible play of the niners late. Mahomes had a lot of help. Stop with this notion that they won because Mahomes was this amazing QB.... He is great... but he is not the reason they won the game. KC's best player on offense was probably Williams in that game.
     
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  6. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    You can never have enough pass rushing talent... Derrick Brown, Aj Espenesa would be my choice for pass rushing talent at 5 since Chase wont be there.. but if he drops im down with Chase..

    if we want to secure the offensive line, you get Tristan Wirfs at 5 and you feel good about it since this is an elite prospect with the highest probability of a 10 year career in the NFL.
     
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  7. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Wirfs is a monster... Once a decade a lineman like that comes along.
     
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  8. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    If Tua is gone at 5 and Wirfs is there.... ( Providing they believe Rosen has potential ) I would look at Wirfs with the 5th pick... Athletically he is as talented as any player in this draft.

    Adding Wirfs and CushenBerry to Flowers.... All of sudden Miami has the makings of a strong offensive line with depth
     
  9. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    This is truly one where the professionals likely have a better insight than we do....but, remember Tua has a lot of injuries, lots of wear and tear for the amount of hits a guy at Bama is taking...most of the time he is far outclassing the other side, he has world class weapons, does not have a plus arm, seems to like the media and leaking info, has some bad press coming out about his interviews, is small AND on the shorter side, made a living going vertically on timing and backdoor throws, and is not exactly a perfect fit for the type offense Chan Gailey is going to run...so there are some issues that would have to comfortable with to have a high degree of confidence that this he is a number 5 or higher pick.
     
  10. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    My preferences:

    1) Trade Down
    2) Wirfs
    3) Simmons
    4) Wills
    5) Herbert
     
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  11. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    He is damn good IMHO but he does get beat underneath at times and wish there were more explosiveness...but I too would be perfectly happy with him there...there are four really good tackles and lots more down the line...might be the best year for OT's that I have ever seen...with all that said I like Becton better because I think you can coach out his high hand level and lengthen him out in pass pro so he takes advantage of his length more.....but tater, .... potato ...French fries......all good.

     
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  12. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    I see Becton as a once in a Generation Guard.... He is massive and his impact would be undeniable inside... Absolute Mauler that can push the pile...
     
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  13. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Derrick Brown would be my preferred pick at #5 regardless I think. Him or Simmons pleases and Thank Yous
     
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  14. Losferwords

    Losferwords Member

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    You don't trade away two young pro bowlers and tank a season so you can draft a LB/DB/ETC.

    You do this so you can get a f'ing franchise QB.

    They must come away from this draft with one of Burrow or Tua no matter the cost.
     
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  15. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    What if there are no clear franchise QBs to be had? You force the issue?
     
  16. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    They knew about Tua and Herbert and Love going into the season. If they didn't feel any of them were worthwhile, then don't make the moves. Burrow simply added another strong possibility. Get one. Use your assets if need be. The only way I see that we don't use 5 on a QB is if we feel strongly that one of the QBs will be within trade reach of #18 and we use #5 on a big OT. More like that we use 5 on QB and see if one of the LT's gets into tradeable range.
     
  17. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    No

    I think when the team sucks... They are in bad shape with the cap.... You need to pull the plug.. and start over... No matter what players are coming out possibly in the next NFL draft. You have to have the mindset that there is no point in paying players to be part of a team that will suck... So you get your financial house in order. You trade away anything noteworthy of value in this process... You play out the current season looking at the young players on the roster and evaluating talent and you hope to look for and find a handful of useful players from other teams sources while you build the team for the future.

    Best case scenario.... Yes you find your franchise QB right away

    But that does not mean it has to work that way.

    I would argue that we are better off served trading down in this draft... and then taking

    9. Kinlaw
    18. Jones
    20. Mckinney
    26. Mims
    39. Baun
    56. Cushenberry
    70. Dillon

    And because we have 2 first round picks in next years draft we go after this guy

    https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2019-championship-trey-lance-ndsu-bzbz

    Who is an absolute great looking prospect.

    Even if the Dolphins have to trade an additional pick with the two firsts... If this kid keeps improving and growing... Do it.

    Several teams will be salivating and fighting for Lawrence... This kid will be there for us to get.

    Tua is Hurt and will need to sit part of the year...

    So not drafting Tua and waiting for this kid does not Hurt Miami

    We can roll With Fitzmagic.. Win ten games make the playoffs and then draft this kid to be the franchise QB for the future.

    If the players I just listed pan out.... The team will have a very Good O line... A Very good running game... Three huge receivers.. and a top 5 defense.

    Everything you need to dominate.


    If we get Tua we get Tua...

    Do not freak out and say crap like we are squandering anything if we take the best players and refuse to reach for Tua


    As I pointed out with this player in the draft next year... We have ample opportunities to get this right over the course of the next 2-3 drafts.
     
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  18. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I don't agree with who you want to draft instead, but that's cool. I do agree with your broad system of thinking.
     
  19. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I agree! We don't have to force it. If there is not a franchise QB to be had this year build the team with BPA and let's roll with Fitzpatrick. As long as his arm strength doesn't diminish (like Brady's), I think he has what it takes to kick some serious butt. Besides, didn't the Chiefs build their team first and then swooped in and drafted Mahomes when the opportunity presented itself? Ideally, I would say let's start with a franchise QB, but if that isn't possible, we don't have to be stupid about it and waste valuable resources. As you said, we can even add more resources for next year if that presents itself. I can continue to be patient. If we become one of those teams that are loaded for bear, we will still be fun to watch. Long term, it's more important to find the right QB fit, rather than force it.
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    How much of LSU's season did you watch? I saw almost every game start to finish and I can honestly say I haven't seen a QB with that much poise in the pocket in the past decade in college. Week in, week out, no matter who the opponent, Burrow sat in that pocket and made huge, big-time throws. Their schedule was BY FAR the toughest in the nation as well and he made things look easy...by week 3 or 4 there wasn't a doubt in my mind that he was going #1 overall.
     
  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I don't watch many LSU games live, though I did see parts of a few last season. I have watched a lot from him in clips since the end of the season. Generally, it looks like his decision making and the results of his throws are often very positive. However, his arm strength doesn't seem special, and his release isn't very fast and doesn't have a lot of quick zip to it.

    I think that its very possible that he's smart, mature and well coached, but has maxed out his abilities and is what he is, looking better against college competition and players several years younger than he was himself.

    Over and over, when I watch him, the QB that he strongly reminds me of is Andy Dalton.
     
  22. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Burrow reminds you of Andy Dalton? Yikes!
     
  23. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I think we should go all in on a QB. Throw a kings ransom at the Bengals and see what they say. I will say this with confidence though....Outside of Burrow, this class of QB's all have some serious question marks surrounding them. Love, Hurts, Tua, Herbert, Eason....I wouldn't take any of them with our fifth pick unless we are absolutely sure about them. Love is a very raw prospect, Hurts has arm issues, Tua has injuries, and Herbert regressed in his senior year. If it weren't for the injuries, I would say draft Tua immediately behind Joe Burrow, but the injuries and the failed physicals (which may or may not be true or a big deal) are a bit concerning.
    In short, i'll be definitely disappointed if we don't come away with a QB prospect in the draft, but i'm also not a fan of reaching for need when that need can't be fully met. This is the Dolphins though....and we do dumb ****. Daunte Fatpepper, AJ Feely, passing on Drew Brees...TWICE, passing on Aaron Rodgers, trading for Josh Rosen, Jay Cutler, believing that Ryan Fitzpatrick at 38 years old is going to suddenly stop doing all the Ryan Fitzpatrick things he's done since he came into the league and suddenly morph into Rich Gannon. We're snakebit at the QB position and have been ever since Marino retired last century. We need a Quarterback to lead this franchise is the worst possible way. That just makes this situation all the more frustrating because I honestly had no idea that a team could look any worse than we did last year until the Bengals came along. The race for Burrow was a race that we comfortably led and we chose to win instead. I'm not mad about that, we still have the assets to get him if we deeply desire to do so, but this is our current hand and it's not all that bad, it's just not what all of us want.
     
  24. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Yes, strongly.
     
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  25. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't know- I was absolutely blown away with his confidence and decision making skills the entire season. Now, you're 100% right...NFL-level competition is an entirely different ballgame. But I also think folks have to realize that LSU beat virtually every top-10 team on the way to the championship...Burrow faced and silenced the best of the best at that level. They only had a few games all year long that were against opponents outside the top-25. Without Burrow and LSU, the top ten would have been completely different this year.

    And you're also right about arm strength- it's good but not world-class. I think that's okay though when you have a guy that can process the field that well and remain poised under pressure. I hate saying that his arm is "good enough", but that's basically what I'm saying here.

    My comparison would probably be Joe Montana- I really think the kid is special. Maybe he busts like so many other rookies but to me, he seems head and shoulders ahead of anyone else in this class (or recent classes). He's just so polished as a pocket passer that it's really hard for me to see him failing.
     
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  26. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    If we can't pick a QB at 5 than I guess trading up for one at 3 makes sense too. So Tua at 3 it is.
     
  27. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Thats fair, but I've always strongly felt that Montana is one of the most overrated players in NFL history, and had he ended up on most other teams instead of SF, he wouldn't have been special at all.
     
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  28. KCDolfan

    KCDolfan New Member

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    If we stay at 5, Burrow goes 1, and we don't believe any of these QBs are as good as next years class or even Rosen, then I say take the best OT or trade down 6-9 spots and pick up an extra 2nd or even a 1st next year. I wouldn't mind getting two quality tackles in the first round this year if we don't take a QB. Roll with Fitz and see if Rosen can develop. We are in good shape for both the draft and free agency next year. This is not a one year rebuild. Be patient and stockpile talent.
     
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  29. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Big O's gut feeling about Miami's direction with 5th pick...

    I have to say. I don't always agree with him, but I like his thinking here! I mean the general concept about the team and the QB's role within it. I am not sure about Love though, but theoretically, we could be talking about any QB that Grier/Flores thinks would be a good fit.

     
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  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, that's what I've hoped for all along...take the BPA or trade back a few slots, grab an extra pick and then take the BPA twice. I like Tua and Herbert but I'm not absolutely in love with either of them. Yet a linebacker like Simmons who's basically Minkah in "hulk mode"...that's a slam dunk of a pick and a 10-year starter leading your defense.

    Tua or Herbert MIGHT BE a stud QB eventually, but there's several names at #5 that are virtual day-one locks. I'm not a gambler so I'll take the safe, calculated bet every single time...give me the best player available and call it a day.
     
  31. Losferwords

    Losferwords Member

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    This is a disaster waiting to happen... I have a real bad feeling Miami will do what Miami always does and try to get cute.
     
  32. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Time will tell...
     
  33. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Well-Known Member

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    I don't get this "we tanked for a QB so we have to take a QB" logic. This year's class of QBs looked very different a year ago to how it does now and so basing what you would've done a year ago as the basis of your decision now seems like a plan doomed to fail. Don't force things. If you think that one of these QBs is worthy of the #5 pick then take them, but do it based on the player they are now and what they could be, not what you thought they were a year ago. Tua is the prime example of this, the injury concerns are a lot more concerning now than they were a year ago. If you think he's still "The Guy" then grab him, but don't act like the last 12 months didn't happen.
     
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