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Was Mark Duper really that fast?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by hitman8, Apr 19, 2020.

  1. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Question for some of the older fans, the marks brothers era was a little bit before my time. I only started watching the dolphins in 92, so I missed their prime years, but even then I remember Duper was Miami's main weapon on offense. I remember watching a game against atlanta that season where he even got a step on Deion Sanders and beat him deep, which for me throws into question the whole Deion was the fastest of all time notion.

    I did some research and it turns out Duper supposedly ran a 4.28 40 in the 80's. I mean I though he was fast, but I didn't know he was THAT fast.

    I think Marino really missed duper in his later years. We really haven't had a deep threat like that again even to this day.
     
  2. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Draft Combine results weren't as public back then as they are now, but I've read that he ran a 4.2 something as well. I was a kid when he started playing as well, but he's a bit of an amazing story. He went to NW State College in Louisiana, which was at the lowest division of college football at the time. He was likely drafted based purely on his raw skills, as he was fast enough to compete in the college national championships and try for the Olympics. The Fins drafted him, and sat him entirely his rookie year.

    He averaged almost 20 yards a catch in 83 when he and Marino both got on the field, and averaged over 18 yards each of his first six seasons. By the time I was able to regularly watch Fins games in the late 80s, he'd slowed down and was not only a clear #2 behind Clayton, but the TEs and RBs too. Looking back, I think that he got as many targets in 1991 in his last 1000 yard season because the team basically got nothing out of the TE position that year.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
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  3. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Duper was a prime example of how I classify "football speed". Football speed can't be measured like track speed can. Track speed is a part of football speed but it's only 1/3 of it.
    The other 2/3 are quickness and vision. And they go in order. Football speed is a function of Vision+Quickness+ Speed=Football Speed
    Vision is primary, doesn't matter how fast your feet can move if you can't see where to go.
    Quickness is the first three yds of a run or the last yd of a pass pattern, how fast can you change direction, get clear of traffic, and accelerate.
    Speed is where the straight line track speed forty time finally comes in to play. 40 time speed only matters if you can see it first, react and get there first, and then run away from everyone else who may have been as fast as you, but weren't as quick.

    Duper was NESTLE QUICK!
     
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  4. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    There's no stat out there to measure it, but the one intangible that Duper and Clayton both possessed that made them and Marino so deadly were their ability to precisely run a route.

    If they were supposed to be x number of yards downfield x number of seconds after the ball was snapped, they were precisely where they were supposed to be...because that's where the ball was going to be.

    Watching them play was just poetry in motion. Nobody and I mean nobody ever has no ever will be able to do what those 3...Marino, Duper and Clayton were able to do. Hell, the NFL had to alter the rule book in order to try and replicate it
     
  5. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

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    I think the Marks Brothers were in their last season when I started watching in 91/92, so I sadly missed them in their heyday. After that, it was McDuffie, Fryer and Ingram which wasn't a bad set of replacements either. Gives me goosebumps even now, remembering hearing any of their names called on the receiving end of a Marino touchdown pass, when the Dolphins were the AFRTS radio commentary. I spent over two hours in the bath listening to that 'Immaculate Deception' Jets game lol. Must have topped it up with hot water a dozen times. I was like a prune when I got out.
     
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  6. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I'm similar. While I became a fan of the team during the 84' Super Bowl, I was seven years old and didn't really know what was going on. I really started following closely when I was in Jr High in 89/90, and then started spending all day Sunday and Monday Night watching NFL games when I started HS in 91.
     
  7. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Damn, I'm old. I was 7 years old when I watched the undefeated '72 season...my first year watching football with my grandfather :lol:

    You "young bucks" missed some GREAT football pre-Marino, pre-Marks Brothers, pre-everyone else.

    -Such a beautiful sight watching Czonka run right up the middle...and knock defensive linemen/linebackers on their butts and run right over them
    -Such a beautiful sight watching Warfield catch the ball from Griese or Morrell. Always a huge gain and first down.
    -Such a beautiful sight watching Fernandez, Buoniconti, Anderson, Scott and the rest of the No Name defense shut EVERYONE down.

    If only we could get Miami back to THOSE heydays!
     
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  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Its very true. I'm glad you guys got to see the great teams of the 70s, and enjoy those early to mid 80s teams as an adult to appreciate them. The guys I feel for are the ones who are too young to remember the 90s. Who are diehard fans that have never gotten anything great whatsoever. A lot of respect for sticking with it, when you don't even have memories.
     
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  9. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    I was 6. SB was the day after my 7th Birthday. Fun fact, me and the Dolphins were born the same day. My Mom found that out when we moved to Orlando when I was 6 weeks old. Had my first Dolphins schwag before I was 2 months old.

    Literally been a fan my whole life.
     
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  10. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Another AFRTS listener.... Bravo Zulu, mate! DDG-2
     
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  11. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    My dad doesn't like or watch team sports whatsoever, so I kinda had to find my own way. I happened to be watching the SB in 84 at a party at a relatives house, and my mom's dad asked me which team I was going to root for. Aqua was my favorite color, and dolphins were my favorite animal, so it was an obvious choice and a match made in heaven. Had we not gone to their house that day, or had I been out of the room playing with my cousins at that moment, I might never have become a fan, growing up more than 1000 miles from Miami.
     
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  12. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    [QUOTE="The_Dark_Knight, post: 3270456, member: 74" Hell, the NFL had to alter the rule book in order to try and replicate it[/QUOTE]

    And It hasn't worked yet. 83 was just magic.
    No one knew what to expect from that low a first round pick.... but, the rest is history.
    But I can still mourn for the lack of a lot better defense for a few of those teams. Living on shoot-outs is not healthy for any team.
     
  13. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Deion Sanders was very fast, but he wasn’t the gold standard for fast as far as DBs of that era are concerned. The only person saying Deion was the fastest DB, or fastest in the NFL was Deion.
    Darrell Green was faster than Deion, both on the track and in pads on the field. Deion had better hands and was a better open field runner so there are more highlight reels of Deion.
    Mark Duper is better remembered for precise route running so lots of people forget just how fast he really was.
    Both Green and Duper were faster than Deion. I don't really have a good way to assess it because of the disparity in positions but I think Bo Jackson was faster than Deion.
    As for fastest in the NFL ever you really can’t go past Bob Hayes.
     
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  14. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, Deion's speed is a little overhyped. He was officialky clocked between 4.27 and 4.33 at the combine while he himself claimed it was sub 4.2

    Bo Jackson was definitely faster than deion, independent coaches timed Bo at 4.19 during his auburn pro day, while Bo himself claims it was a 4.13.

    As far as fastest of all time I agree Bob Hayes takes the crown.
     
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  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Back in the day that Seahawks fans used to make fun of me for being a bandwagon Dolphins fan.
     
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  16. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Even funnier my father was a HUGE Redskins fan. He talked a bunch of smack, Made me bet him on the game. Redskins won I had to wash his car inside and out Once a week for a month. I said fine, if the Dolphins win you have to clean my room and make my bed every day for a month. He was so pissed. To make it even worse Mom made me a cake for my Birthday, a rectangle with green icing striped like a football field with goal post and little plastic football figures she painted the two teams colors, and all the skins players were getting trucked by the Dolphins and Csonka in the end zone. I love my Momma. He got his payback later sadly but that was the best birthday ever, til pretty girls started giving me special bday presents anyway.

    And I've hated the Washington DC football team forever, almost as much as the jest. Almost.
     
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  17. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Washington is my "local" team now, living in Virginia. The apathy towards that franchise is amusing.
     
  18. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

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    Cheers bro! Whatever happened to AFRTS? Is it still broadcasting on MW (AM for you young uns!)? There was something special about listening to games on there, even though the signal usually faded out just as something exciting was happening, and you got someone gibbering away in spanish before the signal faded back in a few minutes later. It felt like you'd missed half the game, LOL.

    Before the days of the internet and the saturated NFL coverage on satellite TV over here, that was all there was for your weekly live football fix. There was the weekly highlights programme on Channel 4 on a Monday, presented by the excellent Gary Imlach and Touchdown! magazine, which I had delivered weekly. I used to set my cassette recorder overnight to record the late Sunday night game on AFRTS, whoever it was, and then listen to it in segments during my commute to work and back during the week.

    Tell that to the kids of today and..... etc etc. :smile:
     
  19. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Sanders was such a punk. I loved watching Marino tear Sanders up. He knew the way you beat Sanders was to throw to the inside, not the outside. Sanders was a weak little crybaby beeah that he wasn't going to take a hit trying to pick off passes thrown to the inside.
     
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  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    As a teen, I went to Flamingo Road Baptist Church and they were huge on community outreach- we were constantly having picnics and off the wall community events (for instance, one time they had a "mud bowl"...they turned this huge field into mud so we could play football).

    Anyway, at one event they had Duper and Clayton there to get non-members stopping by for food, fellowship and autographs. I brought a few high school friends and a flag football pickup game ensued, and both Duper and Clayton joined in. I'm not saying either of them were running all out, but neither seemed shockingly fast. They were covering each other though and mostly clowning around with us...it wasn't a serious game. This was around 1990, by the way...so towards the back end of their careers.

    Afterwards, one of my friends wanted to race them and I joined in...I ran a 4.7 40 in high school. The friend was our fastest high school player & he ran a 4.4. I lost by 3 or 4 steps, but again, I don't think they were going all-out....they beat my friend by maybe half a step. Clayton/Duper tied though and basically ran stride for stride the whole way. So while that's not much of an answer on whether Duper ran a 4.2 40, I figured it was a story to share on him anyway. Both were super nice guys and they hung out with us all afternoon....I think they were paid to be there for an hour but they both wanted to hang out and fellowship with the community.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  21. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Wow, Duper and Clayton...Haven't thought about them since Tecmo Super Bowl. I was little when they were doing their thing, so I don't really remember. Both were kind of past their prime by the time I was able to tune in and follow what was actually going on. I'm more knowledgeable on Mark Ingram, OJ Mcduffie, and Irving Fryar than I am them. I'm even more hip with names like Orande Gadsden, and Lamar Thomas. Chris Chambers probably my all time favorite WR for this team. Hard to believe he only had one thousand yard year with us.
     
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  22. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Chambers was so much better than he was able to show with the Fins. I remember when he played in the Pro Bowl with Peyton Manning and he looked like one of the best receivers in the league. I badly wanted the Fins to draft Reggie Wayne in the first round in 2001. I've wondered if we had, if the Colts would have taken Chambers in the second, and how his career would have turned out in Indy.
     
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  23. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

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    I can’t testify to how fast Mark Duper was, but I recall a story that he jumped a table tennis table lengthwise while he in college.

    If true, that’s some jump!
     
  24. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    That's actually not a big deal. I could do that if you give me a running start.
     
  25. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

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    9' long and 2' 6" high? Not a big deal?

    I hope you’re joking.
     
  26. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I heard he put that Jimmy John's guy (you know, fast, freaky fast) to shame in a race. With a JJ's sub in hand. In the rain. Up a hill. With no shoes on. Even gave the JJ's guy a head start.

    So yeah, he was pretty fast.
     
  27. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Unless you are talking about jumping it from standing still with no running start, it is actually no that impressive. NFL players regularly do 10' and 11' foot broad jumps from standing still. If you give me a running start to jump over a 9' long table I could do it easily, I'm pretty athletic and still stay in shape.
     
  28. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I met former Bills CB James Williams Williams (He was coaching at Fresno State) when we attended a team camp there back around 1997.
    He knew I was a DOLFAN and gave me grief whenever he had the chance. We were having lunch one day and and I asked him - Who was harder to cover between Mark Clayton and Mark Duper? His answer was instant and he said that Clayton was so quick that he was tough to match on cuts and he had great hands and routes, but that Mark Duper was scary fast and the WR nobody wanted to cover because he could blow by you so fast that you couldn't have any misteps or misreads. He raved about Dupers on field speed. He said everyone feared Mark Duper in the league.
     
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