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Allen Hurns & Albert Wilson Opt Out

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Destroyer, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!
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  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Covid-19 is scary because there are no great treatments or vaccines and a lot of people do not have immunities. Which is why the new and abnormal is scary.

    I think the same. Because modern medicine is awesome.
     
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  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm not sure I agree about there being no good treatments. I think down the road people will have immunities. I don't think vaccines are what are going to drive that. I saw a poll recently that said the number of Americans in favor of the vaccine is down to 42%. It will be interesting to see how the vaccine is received when it comes out.
     
  4. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    What I find disingenuous is how people are making this moral stand against the NFL players playing because of clotteraral damage or the potential for someone to get infected but they still go to the local drive thru for their Big Mac, go to Home Depot. All of these are non-essential places/workers and the moral police never bat an eye or speak out for the average Joe when they really don't need to be working because it puts them in way more danger then an NFL player would be in.
     
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  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    If 42% of people get a vaccine, that would be significant. Especially if it turns out the vaccine is more of a one and done than like the flu shot.

    With the low use of vaccines it wouldn't cause a practical elimination of the disease, but it would go a long way to not shutting everything down.

    And by good treatment, I mean I go to the doctor, turns out that I have COVID-19, they give me an inhaler I take for 14 days and I am most likely fine.

    We don't have anything close to good solid treatment.
     
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  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's also extremely bad from a moral and policy standpoint, and absolutely could have been prevented and still could and should be fixed. Hope this helps!
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That poll has been dropping every week they run it. It was at almost 60%. Democrats were about 53%, Republicans something like 37%, and independents even lower. Pretty interesting.

    If I were to come down with covid-19, I'm pretty convinced that HCQ + azythromycin + zinc would do very well to take care of me, if I even had symptoms that required treating.
     
  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That's nice, but it doesn't change the fact there is no good legitimate treatment.
     
  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I guess that depends on who you you listen to, doesn't it.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Well no. For a good treatment, there needs to be a general consensus. There isn't one yet.

    I work for a HUGE hospital network. They don't even mention the use of HCQ + azythromycin + zinc in any of their internal material.
     
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  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Is that supposed to surprise me? Given the reception of any doctor that mentions using those things to treat covid, why would most doctors even go down that road?
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    No. It was supposed to convey that we don't have a treatment at the moment to make it m this current pandemic to be treated as the flu.
     
  13. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Guarantee full safety...safety like
    Ryan Shazier?
    Sterling Sharpe?
    Destry Wright?
    Jeff Fuller?
    Bo Jackson?
    Mike Utley?

    There are dozens of others who have been catastrophically injured, some life threatening injuries and you’re talking the NFL guarantees full safety?

    As I’ve said previously, if a player doesn’t want to play this season so be it...but as this is a personal choice not to go to work then the players who choose not to play need to endure the same the average American who is out of work through no choice of their own...no paycheck.
     
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  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'll throw my two cents in from a conversation today with a COVID-floor doctor at my local hospital that's treating 50-100 patients per week. He told me that if they catch it early, there are excellent treatment options to keep the disease from getting severe. He also said that they have a few promising treatments for late-stage COVID to get people off ventilators faster. What they're lacking is something to prevent COVID and something that would help mild/moderate infections that are similar to severe flu. In other words, they have good options for day 1 and 2....and they have decent options for days 10+....but there's not a full treatment available for days 3-9 (and obviously day zero as well).

    Their problem is that if you can kick this thing in the nads on day 5, then you don't have to worry about ventilators because folks never get that sick. So they need that middle-ground treatment and it doesn't exist yet (at least not in a fully documented, proven way).

    I also spoke with the charge nurse about vaccines; I brought up a medical journal article I read recently that vaccines may not work. She said that the medical community is mixed on them as well because while the testing does in fact produce sufficient antibodies, those fade away within 4-5 weeks. There are three different types of US vaccines being produced- one is like the flu shot and the other two are new technologies. The hope is that while you lose the antibodies, your body's T-cells in a different part of your immune system recognize the virus, labels it a bad thing and then attack once it sees it again (like chicken pox, for example). However, there's no way to prove that because the testing hasn't reached that far along yet....it's not like they can vaccinate people and then expose them to COVID directly a month later to see if it works. The three different types of vaccines is very important though because they work differently to essentially do the same thing....so we literally have three chances of success with about a dozen manufacturers.

    Here's something even more promising though. Researchers recently did testing on one of the vaccines and they wanted to have a sample group that definitely wasn't exposed to COVID, so they got blood samples collected from a lab in 2017. Only, around 35% of these samples had an immediate reaction when exposed to a COVID protein...which they couldn't understand at first. Then they realized that COVID is a variation of the common cold and the body could possibly treat both sicknesses the same- meaning if you've had a cold recently (whether you actually got sick or not), then your body can likely kick COVID's ***. This is the current theory why kids and young adults aren't getting sick; kids have minor colds a lot more than us from being in school, not washing their hands, playing on the playground, etc....plus they're just a lot more social in general.

    So when it comes to an actual cure, the answer could have been discovered already by nature...which has a lot of scientists optimistic. The thinking is for folks who rarely get sick (most kids, young adults, healthy/active 30-50 year olds), your body spots a common cold and does its thing to stop it. That could explain why 50% have no symptoms and why the death rate seems focused on seniors and folks with weakened immune systems- a common cold generally kicks these people's butts regardless of age. I mentioned my 18 year old got super-sick from COVID....she's sick all the time with respiratory stuff, and she was inches from being hospitalized from this. So the hope is that if a common cold won't floor you, neither will COVID....but this is far from proven! It could also explain how a select few people are getting COVID twice- they would be the same folks who can get a cold twice in 2-4 months.

    Long story short here- there is a ton of promise in the near future for COVID and we're actually rooting on four vaccine types once we count natural human biology. That's not to say a cure is right around the corner because again, they don't know enough about how T-cells and the immune system works. But science is on the right path and there's massive collaboration involved on levels never before seen in the world. There has to be a reason why half of us don't get sick from COVID, so I'm really really hoping science is right and many of us are already partially immune.

    It's a lot like our Fitz, Tua, Rosen situation...it really doesn't matter which one plays great and earns the W, as long as one of them does we're happy regardless. Or if we steal the win another way (AKA, mother nature), that's okay too. We just have to hope the three types of vaccines all don't turn out to be Cleo Lemons.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Thank you for sharing
     
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  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It being a variation of the common cold I thought was common knowledge? That is why zinc is effective, avoiding too those doctors using that therapy. Remdesivir (sp?) Is also another treatment option that has been being used with some success. There are some others being used to that I've read about. I remember reading a couple months ago that ventilators were actually exacerbating the problem in many patients?
     
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    They did know that it's a variant of coronavirus (the common cold), but since it mutates they weren't sure if it was more flu-like (you have to get vaccinated annually & it's only effective if they guess the correct strains). What they're seeing is that coronavirus mutations are very similar in makeup across a dozen strains and they're thinking (hoping) one treatment is good for all 12 for some period of time. However, it's different from the common cold so they didn't think it would be effective there....remember, we've never been able to cure the common cold.

    The new theory is that a cold and COVID both have the same base protiens that the body can detect...meaning if it spots one or the other, then it can fight it off equally well. Again, I said THEORY...they haven't proven it yet since they just started looking at this about 10 days ago. But it would sort of make all the dominoes fall into place on how some folks are just carriers and/or asymptomatic.

    That's why I said a few weeks ago, whatever your town is reporting in COVID cases....multiply that by 5-10 to be closer to the real number of infections since half the folks never know they have it. That's why sports are so tough right now...one player could infect 50 people, and they infect 200 more (their families, friends) without even knowing it. Out of the 250 in that example, maybe 120 feel sick and maybe 40 of those get tested...but we know tests are only +/- 50% effective. So maybe 20 of the 250 people tests positive a week later, but now that 250 has turned into 1,000 cases. You literally have 1,000 people infected and only 20-40 quarantining.

    From that example, you also have 20 people who were told they definitely don't have COVID, so they're back to work and living their life...that bad test actually hurts the community severely.

    I also read that ventilators make some patients worse Resnor but I didn't try to dig into the science behind it. What my doctor told me a few months ago is that it takes about a week for COVID to get to your lungs (in heavy doses) and once it finds the outer walls, it latches on and hardens like a blister/scab. So the problem becomes physical, permanent damage to the lungs...I'd be guessing though if I said why ventilators hurt that situation since I'm not a doctor. It's not hard to draw our own conclusions though- permanent damage is permanent damage.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
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  18. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I've wondered - and this is pure speculation on my part - whether there is more than one variety going around with different severities. I live in Gibraltar, we're a small population (30,000+), but with one of the highest population densities in the world. When COVID19 broke out the fear was that it would spread like wild fire here. Spain, next door, have had a lot of deaths and in the south (right next to us), they made facemasks mandatory for just about everywhere outdoors - even the beach, but they've struggled. We have about 10,000 daily workers who commute in from Spain, and so it was considered unavoidable that we'd get it. The Gibraltar government made preparations for additional health care facilities etc. and we did go into a lockdown for a short while, but so far we've seen relatively few cases and zero deaths. It's curious. Why wouldn't we see the sort of severity seen elsewhere?

    We do have a small population so perhaps the 'sample size' is too small for a severe case. Or perhaps the strain seen here isn't the serious one? Or perhaps we took better care of our most vulnerable.

    We're almost completely unlocked now. Had a few recent cases that are apparently tied to younger people heading into Spain to go to parties and clubs (no idea how those are going on) and coming back with it.
     
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'm a writer/researcher by trade and I've spent hundreds of hours digging as deep as I can on COVID, and the most accurate thing I can tell you is that they just don't know why some areas are hit harder than the next. In my area, my county is seeing around 50-100 cases per day while the county 20 miles south is seeing 20x that number. Why? We have no idea. Maybe their tests are more accurate than ours and we actually have more asymptomatic sickness here. Maybe the common cold hit hard here a few months ago and our bodies are recognizing COVID faster. Maybe it's just plain dumb luck.

    The thing to remember is that this is totally new and science is based on continual study to find definite proof...so the absolute best answers you'll find are educated guesses. Think about all those space shows we see that talk about dark matter and the formation of the universe...those are all guesses based on having less than 1% of the total equation. That's where we're at with COVID as well, we can't know what we can't know.

    For instance, my younger daughter is 18 and she was very, very sick. Her words were, "It feels like an elephant is sitting on my chest...I can't breathe at all." She fought us as hard as she could to stay out of the hospital and at one point, we were in contact with doctors every few hours. Yet my wife and I took care of her for 14 days and neither of us got sick. I'm 60 pounds overweight, a smoker since I was 18, and I had a heart attack 4 years ago...why didn't it kill me? I tested negative for COVID twice and negative for antibodies thru donating blood (the most accurate test available)- did I somehow not get it even though I was taking her temp and bringing her food/drinks? The other side of the coin is that I haven't had a cold or any sickness in about 5 years- I might get a little cough or a quick fever, but a day or two later I feel normal again.

    Here's another thing- about 2 weeks after being sick, my kid was hospitalized for severe stomach pain. An MRI showed her colon was twice the size it should have been, and it's a spinoff of COVID called MIS-C. The autoimmune system kicks into overdrive in kids and they have all kinds of strange rashes and inflammation....this could have easily killed our daughter. Thankfully they were able to treat it with meds and she didn't need emergency surgery. So don't buy into "kids are 100% safe"...those under 21 face a different type of threat. It's very rare but the threat is still there...both COVID and later MIS-C was life threatening to my 18 year old.

    When my daughter had COVID, I felt tired/drained for about a week and my chest muscles felt like I did 300 push-ups in a row for a few days...but that's really it. But here's the thing- did I imagine that because I was expecting to be sick? Your mind can trick your body into finding symptoms that aren't really there. So we just don't know and probably won't know for years. Meanwhile, my daughter tested negative for COVID twice, but my doctor was 100% positive she had it and reported it to the state as an official case.

    Oh, one more thing- my 85 year old dad was sick this past week and in the hospital. He started with a 103 fever, dizziness and a horrible cough, so they hit him with antibiotics, steroids and fluids. We were freakin' terrified...in my mind I was already starting funeral arrangements since we lost my mom last year and just went thru that. Two days later he was almost 100% back to normal with a negative COVID test, but the hospital paperwork states that the doctor diagnosed bronchitis due to COVID. What does that mean- is it just for insurance purposes so they can collect more from Medicaid? Or are they pretty confident that he actually had it?

    As you can see from all three of these experiences, the answer is "we just don't know". My house has two "official cases" (dad/18 year old), over a dozen negative tests and around 8 doctors who think five of us total had it (including my older daughter and my wife. Older daughter had stomach issues for 10+ days, wife was asymptomatic but super tired). None of us ever tested positive.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I don't understand how it can be an official case if there is never a positive test. That blows my mind. My issue through this whole ordeal has been the conflicting information, and the flipping on things.
     
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  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it really makes zero sense. Maybe the test can only detect certain strains of COVID and we had one that's rarer to this area? Or maybe we just had a string of weird sicknesses that had nothing at all to do with COVID. That's where all the "flipping" comes from though- they truly don't know because the tests aren't accurate.

    Look at Alyssa Milano...she almost died from COVID (her story was the same as my daughter's) yet she tested negative three times. It wasn't until months later that her antibody test came back positive. When do you "officially" call that COVID when she was getting hourly breathing treatments and it basically couldn't have been anything else?

    For my blood donation test, my antibodies (if they existed at all) would have been from about 6 weeks before testing. So even if that one is highly accurate like they say, maybe my antibodies already faded but my T-cells still protect me. They THINK if you get really mild sickness, maybe your body fights it off quickly and you don't produce a ton of antibodies. There's no way to know so we're all acting like we haven't had COVID...even though the state and our doctors say otherwise. And if I don't know with all these experiences, all my research and all the medical professionals I've talked to, then how could anyone truly know outside of maybe the CDC? They really can't.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
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  22. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Believe it or not, I'm not here to debate it.


    Our ruling: True

    We rate the claim that hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19 and on ventilators as TRUE.

    Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.

    This higher allocation of funds has been made possible under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act through a Medicare 20% add-on to its regular payment for COVID-19 patients, as verified by USA TODAY through the American Hospital Association Special Bulletin on the topic.


    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ore-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yup, that's been 100% confirmed true- Medicaid pays a supplement if it's COVID. So we have zero idea if my dad had it last week...I'd guess that he didn't. He was super sick a few months back though (the hospital sent him home after a negative test then too), so maybe he beat COVID and all this was from his lungs never fully recovering.

    I'll try to find that paperwork to see if he was diagnosed with COVID then too...that would be interesting if he was "officially" counted twice.
     
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  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Oh yeah, that's not even debatable. It's crazy.
     
  25. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Once the guy in Florida died in a motorcycle crash and his death was attributed to COVID, this whole thing became absurd to me.
     
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  26. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I see this anecdote in various forms, but really never see any evidence for it. Evidence actually shows we are probably underestimating the number, not over.
     
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  27. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    The number of what? Cases? That's a good thing because that makes it even less deadly than feared.
     
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  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It isn't anecdotal that at least some states, like Washington, are reporting any death where the person had covid as a covid death, even if that person died from other causes, like a gunshot wound. That has been stated by officials.
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Exactly. Huge number of cases, incredibly low number of deaths.
     
  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Where do you get that information?
     
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  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Go pull the transcripts that they are taking their info from. It's not malarkey. They may have changed now how they're recording deaths, but it was absolutely going on.

    For crying out loud, Key just told you his family had over a dozen negative tests, but still two of his family were reported as covid-19 patients.

    Dismiss whatever you want, but it doesn't mean it isn't true.
     
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  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Because the doctors trusted their experience over shoddy tests.

    Doesn't mean it is true.
     
  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I thought this was a new disease, how can the doctors have experience? There's all sorts of evidence that deaths are being reported as covid-19, when it isn't the cause of death. I know that doesn't fit the narrative, but it's happening.
     
  36. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Going obtuse again.

    There is so sort of hearsay and friend of a friend.
     
  38. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I agree with both of you. My doctor is awesome and I trust her implicitly...super smart gal who stays up on medicine. If she says we had COVID, then we probably did. She can't be 100% positive because the testing here is very bad- unless you pay $250+ out of pocket for a private lab test that's back in hours. It shouldn't be a shock that insurance and the govt. only covers the most basic, highly painful tests that are wildly inaccurate and only if the doctor says he/she thinks it's COVID. Otherwise, it's an elective, out of pocket procedure most people can't afford.

    Then you get to wait 7-14 days for results...which means NOBODY KNOWS if they have COVID during the time that the average person actually has it. So the doctors have to use their medical experience to act immediately because the standard tests are 100% worthless for diagnosis. You can verify COVID by chest x-ray as well, but only if you're already super sick and well on your way towards breathing treatments. That's how docs diagnosed my dad a few months back and recently my daughter...they have to do that A LOT. Again, no results for weeks unless you come out of pocket with big money....many folks are dead by then.

    My wife and I were diagnosed asymptomatic because of my kid and my dad- but what else could my doctor really do? We had mild COVID-like symptoms and my wife works with mentally handicapped individuals at her job. So if the doctor said my wife didn't have COVID, she had to go to straight back to the in-house facility and possibly kill 10+ immune compromised handicapped folks. That's the current law though- no diagnosis, get back to work. It's a horrible, horrible position for our doctor and an even worse one for us.

    So like I said, you're both right. The insurance-approved test do suck and doctors have to make educated guesses based on symptoms with next to zero information. But with people dying daily and terrible laws, it's the absolute best they can do right now.

    My advice? Wear the darn mask. Social distance the heck out of everything. Treat Walmart like it's filled with plague. Oh, and ground your kids for the next year! It might sound like I'm paranoid but we've lived this for over two months now and everything about it sucks. You DO NOT WANT COVID...not because of the odds, but because of everything else that comes along with it and the impossible guesses everyone has to make.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Where do you live? I had knee surgery in June. I had to get a Covid test before I could have surgery. Went in to the doctor's office, had the giant swab test, had my results, negative, in three days.
     
  40. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The conspiracy theory that hospitals are out there marking everyone who dies with covid-19 for billing purposes isn't a particularly well thought out one given that we've got pretty clear figures of excess mortality in 2020 that map very closely to the disease burdens at the state level. We've got 200k+ more deaths than you'd expect at this point.

    I mean you can probably still turn around and say that the disease is not actually killing anyone and everyone is so unreasonably scared that they're not getting medical car they need to keep them from dying from other causes. Unfortunately the treatments for being stupid aren't much better than that of covid-19 at this point.
     
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