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Dolphins announce they will be staying inside for anthem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Puka-head, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Oh, I don't think they're tired of saying it at all. I think they're quite happy to have a platform where they can be paid millions to espouse their political causes publicly in front of millions of people. And the union has nothing to do with it. The NFLPA has been legendarily, historically useless.
     
  2. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    While you're at it you can really hurt ol' Hanoi Jane's pocketbook too I'm sure.

     
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    We can. That's what we're doing. I just asked people not to get personal and to keep it objective. I'd very much like for people to talk about it and to do that this thread needs to stay open. If you have anything further to say, PM me, please. I don't want to side-track the thread.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  4. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    There is a difference between being an employee/service provider and being the owner of a business. As an employee/contractor you owe a fiduciary duty to the organization that is paying you, which generally means you are obliged to take actions that are financially beneficial to the organization.

    I work in the restaurant industry. For an example let’s say Shula’s Steak House employs a chef who decides they are going to order locally grown, organic, ethically yada yada yada produce because that’s what that chef thinks is best for the environment. That will double that restaurant’s food costs, yet because the chef does not control pricing, advertising, etc. the business cannot recover those additional food costs. That Chef will get fired for breaching their fiduciary duty to the restaurant.

    The correct course of action in that situation for the Chef is to say “I quit” and open their own restaurant that is run according to their beliefs. Another course would be to persuade in private the owners to change their business practices because “it is the right thing to do”.When you are entrusted with someone else’s money you have to act in a way that is best for them, even if it is not what you would do yourself. You do not have the right to screw up someone else’s business because of your personal moral reasons.

    Getting publicly involved in political causes while at work and representing another party without the express consent and agreement of that party is wrong. You’re taking someone else’s property and using it for your personal benefit.
     
  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Sure. But I think this is tangential to the point. It would be up to the owners to fire the chef, up to the team owners or league to fire/discipline players. Of course, there would be the public/PR side of that to answer for too but if we continue with the legal/financial approach it's just one more element in the equation - what's more profitable for the business in the long run.

    I think what's closer to the heart of the issue - at least as far as Coach Flores is stating - is for everyone to ask how they can do better.
    The players are raising what they think is an vitally important issue. It's forcing owners, CEO's, fans and others who watch them to ask questions. They're risking the league taking flak for it, maybe losing money, but that's between them and the league. For us who watch we I would think the following questions would arise:

    Do they have a point? If so, is there something I can do?
    If not, can I accept the fact that think they do and consider why they might think that? And is there anything I can do about that?

    If they have a point but it's complicated, is it worth trying to help clear it up?

    At the very least I think reasonable people have to acknowledge that a very large number of people see, or think they see, a very significant problem. That should at least start a conversation about that.

    Of course, no one has to care or pay attention. But then I suppose that person has to choose to ignore it or focus elsewhere.

    For my part, I think there's a fundamental problem with the demand that people do something. It's too simplistic. Before people can "do something" I think there has to be a long and complicated look at what the problem is, then the cause of that problem, and only then can a solution be found. There are people having that conversation, but in the mainstream media at least, it's too few people.

    If we can at least start to learn to hear one another though, then that will be progress.
     
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  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Dude yes. I've been trying to explain this forever, and you just nailed exactly what I've been trying to say to people.
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think they are tired of saying. I know I am.

    The union has everything to do with it. The union is why they have the power that the Best Buy employee does not.
     
  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    How many of these players are doing anything Mon-Sat to fight these injustices? How many of these players are holding rallies at City Hall on on a day off to bring attention to these issues?

    If they're doing it, I don't hear about it...and there's no way we wouldn't be hearing about NFL players holding rallies. So then why do it on Sunday? Because it's easy. Because it's on someone else's dime. Honestly, people are aware. People know what's going on. They aren't watching football, or any other sport, going "What is this? What is Black Lives Matter? Who is Breonna?", I better go look into this. They are not tuning in to sports to have politics and half truths shoved at them. They time in to watch their favorite athlete play. They buy jerseys not support BLM but to show allegiance to a team/player. Sports is being twisted and used, and it turns people off. These athletes should go protest and hold rallies on other days, and use their notoriety to draw in crowds.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    where are you looking?

    Also, yes, sports have almost always been political. People just get turned off when it is a political stance they do not like.
     
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  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Are most pro athletes doing rallies? I'm aware that there are a few, but in one NFL have you have 106 pro athletes, many of whom are espousing these things. You don't have hundreds of NFL players every week holding rallies. You don't see massive numbers of NBA players weekly doing rallies or other social justice work. They'll wear the SJW jersey on Sunday, though. That's all I'm saying.
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    NBA players are in a bubble.

    NFL players are also in a bubble.

    Plus they don't need to do rallies because they have a platform they can use due to their fame, power due to union, and platform.

    That is like asking, "Why doesn't Bill Gates become a doctor? He just gives billions of dollars.".
     
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  12. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    Spot on.
    That line from the poem you quote was the most impactful for me also.

    The ties that bind us all together are stronger than the forces trying to tear us apart. Americans thru the years have been able to put aside what divides us and unite to overcome adversity when required. Except now for some reason that unity is lacking in our leadership leaving us to try to heal in small scale, person to person, family to family, neighborhood by neighborhood. And perhaps that's a good thing. The foundation of our country, the people in it, is being stressed to breaking, but only we can fix it. Symbolic protests and empty words time is over. It's time to act. Talk to the people you think you disagree with. Listen with an open mind. Develop EMPATHY for all the other passengers on this spaceship instead of antipathy. It's time to realize there is only one race. The HUMAN race. And we are all members of it.
     
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  13. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    “After watching Thursday’s game and also watching the Dolphins player’s [sic] video,” Mayfield said, “it shows that it is not about who is standing or who is kneeling for the anthem. But instead, coming together and taking action to create real change. Also after reading many letters and messages over the past few weeks… I have been showed that a gesture such as kneeling will only create more division or discussion about the gesture, rather than be a solution towards our country’s problems at hand. With that being said, I am choosing to stand for both anthems to show respect, love, and unity to everybody involved.

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...eld-decides-to-stand-for-the-anthem/#comments
     
  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Dude, they haven't been in a bubble for the past year. They weren't in a bubble last year when they were all kneeling. They weren't in a bubble in April and May. Were they even in isolation in June or July?
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You are asking the question, "Why aren't they doing a less effective way of protest?"
     
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  16. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I agree with your point. The tangent I was going on was more to do about the rights of anybody to impose their belief system using someone else’s money
     
  17. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Not letting them disrespect the anthem is a step in the right direction. I want to enjoy my team with other fans and look forward to a release from my everyday problems. Politics is the last thing I want shoved in my face call me old or whatever lame game makes you feel your superior but it's supposed to be enjoyed by all fans. Take the politics somewhere else please.
     
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  18. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the above. However, take it a level deeper and ask yourself whether it's right that the players are subjected to the National Anthem and expected to stand for it while at work, despite whatever personal beliefs they may have to the contrary (i.e., freedom of speech). The daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance was removed from schools for an analogous reason. If you had your restaurant employees pledge allegiance to the flag or stand for the National Anthem before their shifts, would that be appropriate?

    The way to address the issue in my opinion is by removing the Anthem from games completely. There is nothing "football" about the National Anthem, and there is nothing "National Anthem" about football, other than the fact that joining the two has become routine, thus giving the appearance of a deeper connection that doesn't really exist. If there are fans who crave the National Anthem before games, they can gather in the parking lot and sing their own Anthem.

    This issue is being approached as though the National Anthem has to be performed before games, when that isn't the case. Pan back and look at the big picture, and realize that doesn't have to happen. The NFL would get along just fine without the National Anthem.
     
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  19. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    They have a black national anthem that plays also. Do white people stand or kneel for that one?

    I also am happy to see that the team chose to disallow the disrespecting of the national anthem and the flag under which they have the freedom to protest.

    We can all do better. Those cops that shot the criminal rapist that resisted arrest with a deadly weapon and tried to run, they could've done better. The officers that held down the man resisting arrest while overdosed on fentanyl and meth (and covid+ btw), they could've done better i guess. That guy that shot two LAPD officers in the head yesterday, he could've done better.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
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  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm asking why is it ok for them to use their work environment to be political? The viewer of the event isn't interested in their opinion on Breonna Taylor, or George Floyd, or Donald Trump, or anyone/anything else. They tuned in to watch a sporting event. Again, what is the goal of all this? To raise awareness? Who isn't aware? I just don't think it's appropriate to use someone else's time/money to get your own beliefs across.
     
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  21. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Thanks for responding with such a well-thought-out, coherent comment. I'm sure it added loads to this discussion and wasn't at all dismissive and sardonic and useless.
     
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  22. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I'll bet you a dollar that if you and they both stopped saying it over and over, there wouldn't be a damned bit of difference in the outcome. Politically, anyway. They'd probably make more money and stop alienating fans.
     
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  23. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    I don't think they choose this avenue because it was disrespecting the flag and anthem, I think they choose it because they saw it was only creating more rift/anger and not the genuine change they (all hopefully all of us) want to see when it comes to race in this country. Lets not muddle their message.
     
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  24. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    Never Forget

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That's depressing
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It is right before we live in a free country and they have a union
     
  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but Goodell is in favor of these protests and so is Ross. So it's not like the chef is just going rogue...he has permission to express himself in the kitchen and cook with whatever he wants.

    Now, if Ross came out against the protests then I'd agree with you 100%. But I don't see that happening any time soon.
     
  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Your comment hits to the very heart of this matter- most people aren't interested. Those protesting would say that because people haven't been interested in creating real change, we see these deaths and just shrug our shoulders like it doesn't matter. And I completely get your viewpoint- why do you have to see this when you're already aware of what's going on? Their movement is simply to say, let's talk about this so we're better informed....and maybe someday when you see a wrong that could be righted, you won't lost interest and walk away. You'll say something, do something and make the world just a little bit better.

    I get that you and I tune in to watch football....but you also have to look at the way the world currently digests media and entertainment these days. More people watch YouTube, Facebook and TicTik videos than actual TV, and their news feeds are highly personalized...meaning you only see what "you like". It's super easy these days to tune out anything you're not interested in and forget that it exists at all...or even worse, hate the folks behind things you don't agree with.

    This world is so packed full of hate over everything because that's how technology and the media has designed it- look at that guy and what he said...followed by 10k hate comments. That's how the media reports things these days; it's all black and white with only one side of the conversation looked at. In all honesty, this is not a "political" conversation at all because we do it with absolutely everything- look at our 300+ page thread on Tannehill. Why hasn't that thread just settled on that RT is a pretty good QB that had an awesome year...that one statement could make everyone happy...yet the argument continues because that's the world we live in. It's like we have to fight to the death to represent our views without even considering someone else's thoughts may also be valid.

    This isn't directed at you personally Resnor other than I'm replying to your comment. We're all guilty of being narrow-minded these days because that's what EVERYTHING AROUND US says to do....take sides and only talk to people who think the same way. That's what has created this great divide in the world and the "us vs. them" mentality. The Dolphins are simply trying to reject that ideal and say "WE can make a difference." Not us, not them...but we.

    Somehow we've simply forgotten as a nation that we can disagree but still be friends, allies and brothers/sisters in spirit.

    Again, I completely understand why some would be frustrated by this, but it is an important time in our country's history to stop that mentality and really come together as a nation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  29. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    Somewhere a woman has to see the name of her rapist honored on an NFL uniform. Pathetic
     
  30. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Wait what happened now?
     
  31. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Jacob Blake
     
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  32. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Funny, I don't see any players with Cannon Hinnants name on their helmets
     
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  33. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    No. It just means that you don't affect real change by preaching at people from a football field. Which anyone with any sort of historical perspective should have been able to tell you.
     
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  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Looking at an historical perspective, real change only happens with fire and blood.

    I would rather it happen peacefully
     
  35. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Yep. The cause of changing policies based on decades-old racist assumptions is a good one, but the martyrs they've chosen are not good ones. If the riots had started over Breonna Taylor, I would be able to summon a bit more outrage. Her name has been taken up subsequently, but initially, it all started and then was reignited over a pair of habitual criminals who both should have been in jail.
     
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  36. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    No. MLK would be ashamed of that attitude. Real change happened in the 60s through PEACEFUL protests. He and those who supported civil rights shamed the racists by the courage of their convictions, by risking their lives and their livelihoods and not fighting back when they were attacked. THEY didn't burn down cities. The ones who burned down cities and rioted in the streets set back their cause.
     
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  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Learn real history
     
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  38. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I lived through real history. You shouldn't believe the propaganda you've been presented with by those with agenda.
     
  39. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Unless you're willing to point out what "real" history someone is supposed to be learning your comment is more of an insult than anything else.

    Please let's try to keep this as productive as possible.
     
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  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I would contend that "MLK would be disappointed in you." is more of an insult than anything else.
     

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