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Are the Dolphins a Playoff Team?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by The Guy, Oct 12, 2020.

Will the Dolphins make the playoffs?

  1. Yes

    43.9%
  2. No

    56.1%
  1. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    If Fitzpatrick was still the quarterback I can see someone still not being excited about this team.

    This guy is upset that they "squeaked by" a 5-2 Arizona team on the road with Kyler Murray playing at an MVP level. Not to mention Tua outdueling him in his second career start looking like a stud. If you can't get excited about that then I don't know what to tell you.
     
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  2. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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  3. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Of course I'm also after what you call "style" as well. I want them to play in a way that I personally feel is clear proof of being a good team on both sides of the ball. I don't care if they play the way that they have the last two weeks for a decade straight, I can't feel condiant that doing that will work, and I can't feel good about the game while I'm watching it. I'm sorry. Emotionally, my brain doesn't work that way, and football is largely an emotional outlet for me.

    Beyond that, I really have a hard time grasping what a high percentage of you guys don't have a particular kind of football that you enjoy watching. I mean, I accept it, after all the talks we've had, but I still can't understand it. But I suppose what drew me to football originally 30+ years ago, and what has kept me with it, is just different than a lot of other people.
     
  4. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Do you not count 5 wins in the last 9 games last year (with "the worst roster in NFL history" Steve Young) and 5 wins in the last 6 this season (when every pundit has picked against us) as progression? And of the wins this season, only the win against the Cards was close (with last years no1 pick playing at a very high level on a week where as you said, our WR core was thin and the RB core was even thinner plus they came off a bye & we had 5 coaches out due to the COVID protocol) as the other wins weren't close - we took apart the Jags, the 49ers, the Jets and the Rams in pretty much every category apart from yards against in the Rams game.
    Look at many of the best QB's in history and they all have a high number of come from behind/squeaky wins - every team has them, it's not exclusive to us.
    You have said yourself that we are slightly ahead of where we thought we were going to be after a total rebuild - just enjoy the wins Lucky, the upward progression will take care of the rest.
     
  5. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I see all of that as a credit to Flores. He's proving himself to be a good coach who can win with less when he has to. That in itself is a good sign for our future. I'm glad to see it, and its important.

    But its not just that the final score is close that's my issue. Expecting blowout wins at this point would of course be unrealistic. Its the fact that nearly every play on both sides of the ball looks so frantic and desperate. And on the offensive side of the ball, it often looks like the play is broken and they have to figure out a way to make the most of it. The ability to do that, when forced to 5%-10% of the game is valuable, but its happening 80%-90% of the time. More than anything, that's my issue.

    Again, I get that there are a lot of reasons for that. I'm not angry that its happening right now. They're young and inexperienced. But I guess where I differ is that I watch it, and sigh, and say "man, we have a LONG way to go", whereas you guys all just seem to be excited about it and not too worried about the details.
     
  6. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I see no reason why the Defensive scheme is not sustainable. Of course you're not going to get turnovers and scoop and score points every week but the pressure this team is able to generate on the front end complimented by the coverage in the back is going to get turnovers on a fairly regular basis. This system is based on some of the best defenses of the last 20 years, The Patriots defense. It's nearly the same thing they have run for a long time since Belicheck got there. They have used it to win 6 Super Bowls over 20 years. I would most definitely call that sustainable.

    All of that said, everyone knows that this team isn't even complete yet. We still have holes to fill on the defense, in particular guys that can stuff the run and set the edge better. I think you're concern here is unnecessary.
     
  7. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Look every truly great team has had many close games. At the end of the day a win is a win and I will take it however we can get it. When all is said and done and people look back on previous years records all they will see is team "A" was 12-4 that year and won the superbowl. They are going to see they won 6 games by a combined 10 points. You're going to win close games and you're going to get blown out. happens to every team.

    The thing that every one needs to keep in mind is this team isn't even COMPLETE yet! We still have holes to fill. This team is far from being where Flores wants, but a year ahead of even our most optimistic predictions this team is more than likely going to make the playoffs. No one saw that coming! This is like a bonus year and just a small preview of the future, a prologue. I am just going to enjoy what is happening and watch this team grow.
     
  8. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Go back and look at my posts 16 and 26 in this thread. It is pretty much what we have seen.

    There were good things starting then and if you were looking you could see them. This team is young and is learning how to win. They are far from perfect but I'll take a team in our position every day that fights and scraps and finds a way to win. They are learning that and once the holes start to fill it's only going to get better. They will show the polished play that some are looking for.
     
  9. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Definitely blow out wins should not be the norm, particularly as the whole point for the league is that they want parity but as was said previously, the only game where there was a huge discrepancy was the Rams game and we know the reasons behind the low offense output (ie, they weren't required). The other wins we dominated without much issue.
    Possibly the reason that it looks like that on offense (as I think you already said) is that the oline is a work in progress with 4 new starters, no recognised RB and a slightly depleted WR core (we are missing Wilson imo) plus a rookie QB & new OC - that will bed down though over the next few games as we are hoping that we are now settled at QB.
    On D, I think that's just the way it is, with 8 on the LOS and on the snap, everyone goes to their designated area/role
     
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  10. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well this quote says it all. Even IF it's proven that we can consistently win with a style you don't like, you still won't feel confident that we can win with that style.. even IF it's proven otherwise.

    Then there's nothing to debate really. You're not interested in wins nor actual proof of sustainability, just style of play.
     
  11. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Did you guys see this:
    https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/nfl-playoffs-expanding-covid-19
    I guess that's one way to increase our playoff chances lol.
     
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  12. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  13. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The hype is just a few weeks too early for me, with regard to this year.

    We clean up the rest of November than I'm willing to start believe we can do some serious damage.
     
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  14. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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  15. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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  16. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I don't think that "opening up the playbook" is as necessary as getting the OL to block effectively, for both the run and pass, and figuring out a way to get the receivers and Gesicki open without defenders hanging all over them. Everything just seems so much harder for our offense than for most of the rest of the teams around the league, but that's been the case for a long time.

    I watched the 49ers play the Packers last week, with basically their entire normal offense out with injury or Covid, and backup (sometimes third string) QB Nick Mullens throwing the ball to WIDE OPEN Richie James, he of 15 career catches before that night, and none on the season, and backup TE Ross Dwelley.
     
  17. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    I think we're going to start seeing a lot more Jakeem Grant and Malcolm Perry in space. Perry had a nice route last weekend where he created space and was open down the field.
     
  18. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    That's certainly possible. There aren't many choices left, with Ford gone and Williams injured. I'm not enthusiastic about either one as a long term option beyond this season, though.
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    huh..

    Team is so far ahead of schedule from a complete rebuild is ain’t funny, there’s your progression, the details are evident..

    If you can’t get excited about this team in the context that they are the youngest team in football doing what their doing then man that’s a shame
     
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  20. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    That's the main thing I feel good about, that and Tua, because that essentially subtracts years from this team's developmental plan. Now instead of talking about continuing to build through the draft to be competitive in 2022, we can talk about building through the draft and being competitive next year. Hell if this team continues its trajectory it can make noise in the playoffs this year. I don't think it can be a legitimate Super Bowl contender this year, but a playoff win isn't out of the question.
     
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  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you’re lacking perspective sir
     
  22. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    This "COVID" year is a great opportunity for the Dolphins to go deep in the playoffs because home field advantage is so low. It's also an added benefit that only the #1 seed has a bye, if you're squeaking in as a WC or even as a division winner at #3 seed or below, because you'll most likely NOT face a team that had a bye in your 2nd playoff game.

    This defense seems legit and should end up top 6-7 points allowed at the end of the year. If Tua keeps playing well our offense will be there too, and at that point there's no reason to think a deep playoff run isn't possible.
     
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  23. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    No. I don't lack perspective. I simply have a different perspective than you do. I just follow my own heart.
     
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  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Football is about building a team from the ground up, you want the finished product before the work is done, that’s lacking perspective.
     
  25. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Not at all. That's really the exact opposite of what I'm saying.

    My desire is to see the team do the basics well first. What should be the simple things.

    - Run the ball, with the running backs, at a near-average level.
    - Run basic passing plays that pick up moderate yardage (not focused on YAC) at an average level.
    - Defend the opposing run game at an average level.

    Then, once you can walk, you can then try and run, and do things like try and also create big plays on offense, run trick plays that involve WRs running the ball on occasion, blitz regularly, and try and create turnovers. And ultimately, once they get to that point, worry about things like the two minute offense and big comebacks, ect.

    I need to see them do the 101 level things before I'm going to be too concerned with the more advanced stuff.
     
  26. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    That's all very "1995." Running the ball and defending the run are nowhere near as important as passing the ball and defending the pass. This team has gotten better so fast because it's done both of those things fairly well this year. Passing the ball and defending the pass are in fact foundational in today's game. Running the ball and defending the run are no more than ancillary tasks.
     
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  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You lack perspective imo.

    Youngest team in football.

    Rookie qb

    20 games in to a complete. rebuild.

    Give them a freakin chance to become something, to find their identity, to find the right players they want, it can’t be done this fast, but guess what, they are ahead of schedule, be grateful you gotta young head coach that stands for something, a rookie qb who has great character and a great skillset..be grateful we have a team to root for.
     
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  28. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I'm giving them time. I'm not calling for anyone to be fired or benched or cut. I'm just not ready to be excited about what I'm seeing so far. That's all. They need to grow, and get better, and then hopefully we'll see them be able to execute the basics. I'm just saying that we seem to be a long way from that point, still.
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Look no further than the Titans the other night. Henry had a ton of yards, but the passing game wasn't too high powered, and they lost.
     
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  30. EasyRider

    EasyRider New Member

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    Playoff team? Depends. I think we can make the playoffs but looking at this team right now it’s not built to go anywhere or far. We have talent but it’s a paper thin roster as far as depth. The NFL is hard to cross the finish line and a lot of the success relies on good health, not in every case but most cases.
    With that said, this is the NFL and it’s slogan any given Sunday could always come into play but I’m not overly confident we could go places this year. But I love our direction right now
     
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  31. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Just look at the average EPA per run play versus the average EPA per passing play, league-wide, and then consider that on average, teams pass the ball a good bit more than they run it. There are a whole lot of points being generated by the passing game in the NFL.
     
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  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    execute the basics??

    Ok man, forget it
     
  33. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Yeah, I don't think that you and I are really capable of understanding one another. Its been a problem for a long time. *shrug* I think I'm being as clear as I can. Does anyone else understand the point that I'm trying to make here?
     
  34. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You're easy to understand once one realizes your priority is NOT winning. Instead you just want the football team to play a certain way because it makes you feel more comfortable.

    Maybe in your mind that "style" of play is associated with eventually increasing win%, but when put to the test it's clear that even IF evidence shows your style is not well suited for the current era and it might actually hurt win% you're still more interested in playing a certain way than winning.

    Once that's understood it's easy to understand your point of view. I've just never met an NFL fan with a similar mindset. Only thing I would suggest is that you explicitly add that disclaimer when saying the Dolphins should do X, Y or Z because otherwise people are going to assume you're suggesting the best way to increase win%, fostering this misunderstanding.
     
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  35. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I believe that there are many, many ways to win in football, and my preference is one if them.

    Its difficult for me to grasp that so many others so strongly disagree.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    m

    This team is executing the basics.. their fundamentals are good..

    Maybe use different terms to express how you feel..

    Saying you need the youngest team in football who’s 5-3 on a four game winning streak to grow and get better before you get excited lacks many many thing besides perspective.

    I know you we weren’t a Tua fan, I don’t think you were a Flores Fan either, correct me if I’m wrong, if you weren’t then I understand where your coming from..
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess if you were a Ravens fan you would of quit the team after they drafted Lamar Jackson.

    Pat Mahomes And the chiefs offense hell know, he’s too flashy.

    I know Russ Wilson runs to much for your Liking..So you couldn’t be a seahawk fan.

    I pride myself on understanding different opinions as long as they have perspective but if you didn’t like the Qb nor the coach then it makes sense
     
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  38. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    I think I understand what you're saying, but the point is that the philosophy you're espousing is actually not a way of winning in the present-day NFL. If the Dolphins were to strive toward that philosophy, they would be less likely to win.

    Consider just very basic information on that front: the correlation between points scored and EPA per rush, team-by-team, in the NFL in 2020 is 0.31. On the other hand, the correlation between points scored and EPA per pass dropback in 2020 is a whopping 0.86.

    A mere 9.6% of the variance in points scored is associated with teams' rushing efficiency, whereas that figure vaults to 74% for passing efficiency.

    So the style of football you're wanting is simply not associated with winning in today's game.

    On another note, where in WV did you grow up? I used to live there as well.
     
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  39. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I grew up in Wheeling, which is about 45 miles South of Pittsburgh. And then I lived in and around Morgantown for seven years before moving to Virginia.
     
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  40. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    I lived in Sissonville, a suburb of Charleston, for about five years in the 1980s. Pocatalico if you want to get real specific. ;)
     
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