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Dolphins @ Broncos - Game Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I mean, maybe, but also he didnt look hampered in his movement at all. I think it's more that he has the same tendency to evade the rush by ducking inside his Tackle and up the field but Denver plugged it up
     
  2. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Well, we can stop worrying about winning the Division now. I see wins versus the Jets and Burrow-less Bengals, but after that.....

    What hurts the most is that this is a CLASSIC Dolphin loss like we've seen time and time again over the years. Flores was supposed to fix this, but the defense was merely average. Tua was supposed to lead an improved offense, but it was Jets-like instead. Special Teams was good, thanks to Sanders.
     
  3. Fin2027

    Fin2027 Member

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    He looked slow, no energy and lost. Hopefully he rebounds for next game.
     
  4. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    OMG! You guys are ridiculous! This was going to be a tough game! Denver has a good defense, we were in their house! It was a tough game! I vehemently disagree with benching Tua UNLESS he is injured! He didn't look injured if he was still on the sidelines! It was a terrible call by Flores and one of his rare "misses" if you will. Tua is a grown man, this is the NFL, I doubt this shatters his confidence the way some of you are saying it will, I just don't understand why it was done! Secondly...The hot takes are exactly what is wrong with people in this day and age. The MINUTE something doesn't go your way, you act like babies and start pointing fingers! It was a bad game, they happen. Aaron Rodgers was AWFUL just a few weeks ago against Tampa in a huge game on national TV! Lamar Jackson has looked human at times, Tannehill...Who some of you are now mentioning (god why can't that just die?) had a bad outing against the Bungles last week! Go ahead and quote this and start coming back with being all defensive. I'm not gonna respond. But man...some of ya'll are more concerned with being right or pumping your own agenda then you are the team winning. Peace be with you...JESUS! One bad game and everyone is jumping ship! Peace out!
     
    Galant likes this.
  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    If's and maybe's. Bottom line is that in a quarter of game time, more or less, Fitz had one near interception and then a near fumble, and then threw a game sealing interception. He felt like this was his team and it was taken from him - fair enough. But when you get a shot like this you have to be on your best performance, take the opportunity and make good calls. Throwing into double-coverage in the end zone against great safety/secondary.... isn't a good call. It's classic Fitzpatrick. I'm not trying to dump on the guy. He's been a really great holdover QB for the Dolphins. I just think that this sort of play shows EXACTLY why the Dolphins wanted to move on from him and move on to Tua. We know who Fitz is. This is him. And it won't cut it. Maybe Tua won't either, but you a least try him.
     
    resnor likes this.
  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    They might not even have any/many in the scheme, Gailey might just leave it to Fitz to improvise his own runs...
     
    The Guy likes this.
  7. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the reason your initial post comes across as trolling is because of how crazy it is to say his Dolphins career is over because he was benched today. Given the fact that a replay clearly shows his ankle get bent back in a way that looks pretty bad. So yeah, showing up in a losing effort to declare his Dolphins career over; certainly comes across that way. I think that's why he was unofficially "warning" you.

    That being said; I think you're being a bit extreme here. He was limited this week due to injury; and was hit in a way that appeared to further that injury or cause a new one.

    I dont think his play today as bad as it was is a sign he's a bust. I think were still so early in his developmental process that you chalk it up to teams now finally having some film on him and knowing how to react to him, combined with an injury this week, and a potential injury during the game. It's just too early to say his career in Miami is over.
     
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  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Is it a classic Dolphins loss? Classic to me would have been playing well, even leading into the 3rd and just collapsing when it mattered. Today was more like (almost) everyone was on sleeping pills lol.

    Anyway, Flores has to prove we aren't the old Dolphins anymore and I think he'll do that. I'm more concerned we start off slow in the season with Flores and have to work our way into winning. Either way, this is still a successful 2nd season of a massive rebuild. No need to be down on the team yet.
     
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  9. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't a near fumble. His knee was long down and the ball only popped out after helmet to helmet contact.

    As to the throw, it wasnt great but you're entirely disregarding the fact Tua also threw an interception that was lucky to be reversed and went 3 and out almost every drive.

    I didnt say Fitz was the future. Hes just 10x the QB right now.
     
  10. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    The D wasn't average. It wasn't dominant but it wasn't average. It has a lopsided weakness against the run. Nevertheless, we had one pick, we had a 4th down stop. The D today did enough to give the O a chance. How many 3 and outs did we have? Had the offense put up points the D would have not only been sufficient to win this game, they might even had been a bit more rested at the end.
     
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  11. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and it's honestly a moot point about who "you" wanted us to take right now. Tua has looked fine for the most part. So our OL regressing means that Tua should be benched? That Fitzpatrick is better? Our lack of running game means that too? We're rolling with a UDFA straight off the practice squad...What exactly did ya think was gonna happen? No one is giving up on Tua? I see several of you acting like sharks in the water right now over this loss. And please...just chill with the hindsight tourettes! Yelling Herbert over and over again isn't going to change anything. Burrow is out with a torn ACL, the Chargers are 3-7 on the year. Which team would you rather be rooting for right now?
     
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  12. Fin2027

    Fin2027 Member

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    I may be wrong and I hope I am. It's been a long time wihtout a Good QB. I hope his injury was the main cause of his peeformance today.
     
  13. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I disagree with you VL. Flores benching Tagovailoa was indeed the right thing to do. Flores essentially told him, "You're done, sit down". Now would that potentially "hurt Tua's feelings"? Sure...and it should! Professional athletes are all "A" type personalities and every now and then, they need to have their feelings hurt. Additionally, keeping Tua in the game, where he wasn't able to avoid the rush, getting sacked and continuing to throw bad passes would do nothing but denigrate his confidence that much further.
     
  14. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Wasn't great? It was horrible. And I wasn't disregarding anything. This isn't a Tua vs. Fitz comparison, it's an honest look at Fitz. We don't have two rookies here, we have one rookie and one veteran who we know well. We're learning about Tua and he's learning the game. But Fitz? We know who he is. He's not a bad QB. But he does do this, a lot. It's expected, and it showed up.
    That's all I'm saying. This was expected from Fitz this season, and here it is.
     
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Fitz marched us down the field with ease on both drives, so it's hard to argue against him being the better QB today. I have a feeling Tua was benched out of an abundance of caution, but it was also an opportunity to try to keep the win streak alive and I liked the move. As to next week, darn, I don't know.....but I'd guess Fitz had more passing yards in half a quarter than Tua had in 3 1/2.

    I also agree with others who say Fitz is not the future, but that doesn't mean it has to be Tua-time today. Our best chance of winning next week is with Fitzpatrick and that's who would get my vote.
     
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  16. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Or that he possible just couldn't find a rhythm today and had an off day because of it? Jeez it happens...Brady **** the bed bad against the Saints two weeks ago:up:
     
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  17. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    It's not hindsight, I said Herbert was going to be the best QB in the draft BEFORE the draft.

    It's absolutely relevant because we could have taken either. Even if Tua is the 2nd best QB of all time it would be a failure of a pick if Herbert was the best.

    They are tied together forever for those of us who wanted a different pick made.
     
  18. FishOutOfWater

    FishOutOfWater Member

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    I agree with this. The team is gonna lose games, no need to think the sky is falling after every loss. I expect Flores to light a fire under this team and to take out his frustrations on the Jets next week.
     
  19. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Tua benched for performance. Head to the POST game thread for Tweets and articles and press conference information.
     
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  20. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Ok, now that this game is over, I do have a question...who in the hell were these guys that played Denver, because they sure as hell weren't the Miami Dolphins!

    Offensively, they couldn't block, they couldn't run, they couldn't throw, they couldn't catch...

    Defensively, they couldn't stop the run, they couldn't stop the pass, they couldn't sack Lock, they couldn't stop 3rd down.

    Brandon is right, the entire team needs to find their own way back to Miami, coaches included...except for Sanders and Haack. Those were the only 2 players who did what they were supposed to do.

    I know we can't win them all. I'm one who always says that anyone can beat anyone on any given Sunday, but this was a game we SHOULD have won. I just hope this loss lights a spark under the team's *** that causes us to dominate the remainder of the season.
     
  21. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    You're not understanding what I'm saying.

    It's absolutely Tua vs Fitz because those are your two choices to win games at QB. If Tua isnt better than Fitz he shouldnt be starting yet.

    Tua is incredibly lucky he doesnt have 5 picks on the year now. He actually makes these stupid passes at a higher rate than Fitz currently, hes just had much better luck and I dont evaluate luck, I evaluate the process.
     
    resnor likes this.
  22. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    You were replying to my post about Fitz and the reaction to moving on from him while he was balling. My point was that this sort of performance from Fitz is one of the reasons many people saw Fitz as a losing proposition. If the Dolphins were going to lose with Fitz it was going to be because of this sort of thing. They made the change before Fitz had shown a 'Fitztragic' performance again, so it was deemed unfair, but here it is.

    So I'm not sure what you were disagreeing with. This is who Fitz is, do you disagree?

    As for a Tua comparison, as fans we couldn't know who was better. The coaches hopefully did. They moved on. Ultimately Tua has to prove that he's better in real games. What Flores has shown is that if Tua isn't the real deal he won't have a problem moving on from him.
     
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  23. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    When the Dolphins reached the 20 or so yard line on that drive, I told my teenage son I thought Fitzpatrick would throw a pick to end the game. Sure enough he did.
     
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  24. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    OMG! Listen to yourself whine right now! I can almost hear it through screen. *Rolls Eyes* Once again, it doesn't matter who you wanted at this point and it shouldn't be about YOU being right and the other guy being wrong! You're completely missing the point.
     
  25. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I suppose the last paragraph is where we differ. I dont believe a scout or coach -necessarily- knows more than a fan on certain occasions or that a fan has to be wrong and the coach right.

    What I mean by that is that football is not magic. Anyone who wants to throw on the tape available can analyze a player and there is no specific reason why their analysis must be wrong.

    NFL teams draft busts all the time and fans often point out late round players who will be very successful. We have our own "gurus" here that people love the opinions of in fact and consider good evaluators of talent.

    So while my personal analysis of Tua could absolutely be wrong, I do feel as though I already knew more or less what we had in him.

    I've also been willing to praise the good things. I believe I said earlier today that he is phenomenal inside the redzone and I'll add here specifically the ten yard line.
     
  26. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    If talent evaluation isnt about being right or wrong you'll need to clue me in as to what it is about.

    As a fan that is what I'm doing, analyzing our talent and discussing it.
     
  27. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    What you do have to admit is that the coaches have had more opportunity to see Tua in action that you have. So when they make the change you have to factor in the extra information they have.

    Either way, it doesn't change the point of my post - that this game showed us further confirmation that Fitz is unreliable. The Dolphins cannot win consistently with Fitz. It can't happen because we have over a decade of tape on him.

    So the sadness over Fitz being benched should be somewhat diminished.

    Do you disagree with that?
     
  28. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Colts just won too, today just sucks all around in terms of football and our situation. Doesn't matter if you wanted Ken O'brien at quarterback way before the draft. This loss puts us in a major bind. We have to deliver next week and we'll need some help too. Titans/Colts is a wash, the Raiders will beat the Falcons, and the Browns will smash Jacksonville. Who knows...Maybe Herbert the star can beat the Bills for us!
     
  29. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I do, because even if you cant win consistently with Fitz it's pretty clear that Tua isnt ready to do so either.

    At that point you need to evaluate which gives you the best chance to win and to me its clearly Fitz right now.
     
  30. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I will say though in my opinion it's too late to go back. I almost dont like the switch today because it just opens a giant can of worms we dont need.

    I was fine riding Tua out the rest of the year whether he lit it up or struggled once he was inserted.
     
  31. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    You’re making a lot of assumptions here and quite frankly talking out of your a**.
    I’ve been a Dolphins fan for 36 years and that isn’t changing because I am criticizing a move our FO made. You’re right. Nothing is going to change that pick or situation but I still reserve the right to criticize those moves.

    As far as Herberts record, he hasn’t had the luxury of our defense or special teams. Hard to pin the record on one player in a team sport.
     
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  32. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Except that the Dolphins have been winning since the change.
    And putting Fitz in provided a spark but not a win.
    And it looks like Flores agrees with you - he benched Tua to provide a spark. So if he wants to put the best product on the field he believes that's Tua.

    You say that Tua's tape shows him to be worse than Fitz but you seem to disregard Fitz' tape that shows him to be unreliable...

    You might be right that Tua is worse than Fitz, but it's not a slam dunk, and you have to give Tua a chance to prove himself when you know that Fitz isn't a long term solution.

    Lastly, I suspect that Fitz is balling in this offense not based on talent but based on experience in this offense. Gailey and his offence maybe be the perfect combination to bring out the best in Fitz and the O. That advantage for Fitz has to be factored in.

    When it comes to finding a long term winning solution it really doesn't matter who plays if it's not Tua because it's also not Fitz. So Fitz getting game time is pointless unless you're playing Tua for non-football reasons and doing so loses you the locker room. That doesn't seem to be the case.
     
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Fitz had half a quarter to overcome a 10 point deficit, and he drove us the length of the field twice. It was a tough pass to Parker but it's also one that he normally comes down with. So hopefully you're not saying "Fitz can't get the job done" based on today....
     
  34. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Sure...There's talent evaluation and there's using an agenda and sticking it in everyones face over one lousy hot take. It's almost as if you would rather see Tua fail... just so that your meaningless "talent evaluation opinion" can be right and you can pat yourself on the back for it. I don't expect you to see that, but that's how it's looking. He didn't even turn the ball over in this game. I mean it's not like he threw a bunch of picks! The Denver D just squashed us today. It happens. It simply doesn't make you right because Tua had one off game. If that were the case, then both Brady and Aaron Rodgers (two of the all time greats) would have been benched a couple weeks ago over their bad performances. I see you dodging that all the way because that puts holes in your agenda. Wouldn't that prove right there that EVERY quarterback is capable of having an off day? Lets see what he does next week against the Jets for Christs sakes before whining about how you wanted us to select the Disney on Ice QB from Friday Night Lights! Again, for you it's more about being "right" about something then it is succeeding with the team that we have! I mean...ya just told on yourself in your last comment! That to me is an absolutely insane way to think or conduct yourself, but unfortunately that's the way a lot of people are these days. If you say this is just your way of analyzing our talent, then so be it. Who am I to say otherwise? It just seems to me that you're being a little hard on Tua right now over one rough outing! Look, there are a TON of things to correct with this kid, and he may very well NOT be our guy, but it's a little premature to determine that based off of what ya saw today! You certainly weren't saying the same stuff two weeks ago when we beat the Cardinals! I'm well aware, that you don't like the kid, I think we all are at this point, but that doesn't mean you need to stand up and shout and point fingers every time the kid fails. Like I said, it makes you look as if you want him to fail just to be right! That's a selfish way to be! If he ends up being bad, so be it. You were right! Congrats! Golf Clap! But overall him failing just means it's going to put a major hurting on the bigger picture here and if you're any kind of fan of this team, that should concern you way more than a self centered hot take on who you wanted us to draft at QB! None of us are in control of who the team selects in the draft. The idea is to root for these guys to succeed, not root against them so that you can prove you were right.
     
  35. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I also realize the pick has been made and it can never be undone. At the same time I dare anyone to tell me they WONT be upset with the pick in the end if Tua was a bust and Herbert was a Pro-Bowl type QB every year.

    I'm not saying that is the case, they BOTH still need to be seen more despite how great Herbert has been. I just want anyone who tells me they wont make the comparison later to speak up now for the record so history cant be changed in hindsight if it happens.

    Part of being a fan is that you get to discuss different scenarios. We dont have to be sheep who just trust everything the FO or staff does. Our opinions dont change anything but we can talk about them anyway.
     
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  36. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Why not? Fitz isn't new. We've seen this. It was somewhat predictable. And, don't we talk about players being clutch? However they got their, whether it was Fitz or not, he had a chance to win the game, or tie it and he didn't get it done. To argue that he shouldn't be held to that standard is to deviate from the way we normally judge QB's.

    Again, I'm not anti-Fitz. I just see this as confirmation that no future lies with Fitz. He's too volatile, too unreliable. There's little point playing him.
     
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  37. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well Flores has now said after the game it was performance related, not injury. Either way I agree with his decision; because Tua stunk today. Flores has also said he's still the starter.

    Not sure I like the messaging there from the coach.
     
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  38. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    You're making a lot of assumptions here.

    I'm not hoping for him to fail. Read my posts after the Arizona game up until now. I've mentioned things he can do better but I've also pointed out I've come a long way around on him in some ways.

    Earlier today I complimented his ability to make accurate throws in the redzone as well.

    The thing is though I live in reality. So far hes had two terrible games, one average and one great. Hes not proven to be great or a bust yet, sorry I'm not ready to throw my entire evaluation away I guess?
     
  39. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    The team just needs to go back to the drawing board about the kind of offense it needs to run to account for Tua's inexperience.
     
  40. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    No, my point is more that I acknowledge Fitz isnt a franchise QB who will win you every game. I know he can get the job done and honestly that was just a great play by the safety reading it and getting there in time.
     

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