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Dolphins @ Jets - Game Thread!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 26, 2020.

  1. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Oh my God. Every matchup is different. How do you know Tua doesn't put up 40 points today? And how do you know Fitzpatrick puts up 40 last week?

    Such a ridiculous take that makes no sense.
     
  2. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I disagree with you...Vehemently...Have a good night. GO PHINS! We got the W! All that matters!
     
  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    ??? Why do you think the real Tua is ONLY the Tua we saw in the Denver game? Give the guy credit where credit is due!

    Against Arizona, a FAR more powerful team than the Jets, a Tua-led offense put up 27 points (7 points of the 34 total were from that fumble return so we can subtract that). So we already know what you said is false: a Tua-led offense already has scored more than 20, and against a better opponent. Geez.. the bias.
     
    Phin McCool likes this.
  4. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Taysom Hill wasn't impressive at all today against Denver. Luckily he didn't have to be.
     
  5. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Not against a team with all 4 QBs missing, no.
     
  6. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    All I know is it’s cool to be 7-4 in contention for the playoffs. We have some flaws but this team is only going to get better. If we can find some combination of a running game, another good WR and a DT/MLB, this team will be very good.
     
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  7. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Denver playing without their quarterbacks has nothing to do with Taysom Hill OR their defense.
     
    Hooligan likes this.
  8. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    I heard they wanted one of their coaches to suit up and play but the nfl or nflpa wouldn’t allow it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    In one game out of four. In the other three, the opponents outscored our offense and Tua failed to generate 20+ points.

    And I never said anything about "the real Tua". He's started 4 games and struggled in 3 of them, which is what rookie QB's are supposed to do. I have no bias against him other than his history of injuries....that scares me long-term. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy with Tua so far, but I can't stand the bias against Fitzpatrick. He's done everything you could ever ask of a veteran QB to help Tua yet people bash him like he ruined this team or something. That's 100% uncalled for.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I didn't hear about this- so who'd they have at QB? A RB or wide receiver? That actually sounds like a pretty interesting game to watch, LOL.
     
  11. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    ?? It's both in the Arizona and Chargers games that a Tua-led offense scored more than 20 points. In the case of the Chargers game that was 29 points scored by the offense. It's simply baseless to claim like you did that a Tua-led offense isn't going to put up 20+ points.

    Saying Fitz is clearly the better QB for getting us into the playoffs is what's leading to the backlash. The guy has been mostly below average his career and has almost never led his team to a winning record when he's started 6+ games (this would only be the 2nd time in 12 tries), so suggesting this is the QB better suited for a playoff run is really pushing it.

    And no one I know of has any issues with Fitz as a backup. He's as good as they come as a backup, but when you make statements about Tua that deliberately ignore his successes and then act like Fitz is better (e.g., that baseless 20 point claim), you should expect a backlash. At least take into account Tua's successes when you argue against him.
     
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    In the Chargers game, one drive started at what- the Chargers 3 yard line? Tua was 15 for 25 with 2TD's and 169 total yards....and three dropped interceptions. It's unfair to claim he had a great game there because he simply didn't.

    So we give Tua the benefit of the doubt, but we say Fitz can't lead a team in 2019/2020 because he didn't in the past? Over his last 5 games, he's put up a 104.1 rating and he's up to 92.2 for the season. And while I agree with you that he may have a horrible game in the near future, it's not hard to see all the breaks Tua has received in dropped INT's to realize that he'll eventually have a horrible game as well. It's the double standard that bothers me

    Again, I'm 100% team Tua when he starts, and I'm 100% team Fitz when he starts. I can't understand why you have a problem with that, or why you have a problem with me saying that Fitz has outscored Tua over the last of their four starts. That's a factual statement.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Right, you're adding conditions to Tua you're not adding to Fitz. Did you ever point out the number of bad passes Fitz has thrown that could have been INT's? No. What about comparing the impact of bad plays like untimely interceptions by Fitz. Can you think of that kind of negative impact a Tua play has had? No. Have you also tried to remove from consideration any drives for Fitz where the defense put him in good positions? No.

    You're applying a double standard here, i.e., the bias I was referring to.

    In any case, there are at least 2 games so far (out of 4) where Tua has led the offense to well over 20 points. That's a fact, which is why your claim that "Tua's offense isn't hitting that scoring level" is baseless.

    Fitz has a long history. Sample size is huge. It would be a mistake to ignore that in any analysis of him. Sure, this year could be a rare exception, but it's worth noting how rare it is for him to lead a team to a winning record.

    And the only double standard is the one you're applying: adding conditions to Tua's play you're not adding to Fitz, and deliberately ignoring Tua's successes while pointing out Fitz's successes.

    I have no problem with people supporting the team regardless of QB. Who does? What I do have a problem with is your factually incorrect statement about Tua: that a Tua-led offense isn't putting up 20+ points.

    Also, your argument was NOT that Fitz outscored Tua over their last 4 starts. You just made that argument right now, so don't act like I "have a problem with that". No I have a problem with you applying a double standard to Tua by removing from consideration the times he did what you said he couldn't do.
     
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Our receivers don’t separate well, he’s throwing them open pretty darn well for a Qb with limited skill players, no true tight end, no true running back..
     
  15. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Now that I've had a couple of days to digest Sunday's game against the Jets...

    First and foremost, the elephant in the room. What an ***UGLY*** win. Dropped passes, fumbled balls by the running backs, lack of separation by the receivers. This win was indeed as ugly as a pair of bowling shoes!

    Defensively, yea...the defense held the Jets to 3 points. If you gauge your defense solely on how many points they hold an opponent, then you're indeed a happy camper. While that is one of the metrics I hold a defense to, I hold them to a much higher standard. We got an interception on Darnold. That's great...seriously, but how many times did the Jets (and the Broncos prior to that) convert 3rd and long? If your defense is not putting opposing offenses in 3rd and long and forcing the punt, you're keeping them in the game. Too many mental mistakes on the defense.

    Offensively, we completely abandoned the run. Even before Brieda fumbled, even before Laird fumbled, Miami made no concerted effort to run the ball. Washington actually did relatively well, rushing 13 times for 49 yards, averaging just under 4 yards a carry but that's not going to cut it. December is here. You have to be able to keep the ball on the ground and grind out 5 yards per carry. You just have to.

    Following the Dolphins one sided decimation of the Rams, I was quite optimistic in the trajectory of the team but that trajectory has leveled off and has started declining. I do see 3 more wins, but we're going to be limping into the playoffs with an early exit. Not that I'm being pessimistic and negative on the team, I just see it as a fact. Not bad however when you have a second year head coach that's completely gutted the team and is working with 22 or 24 new players on the team and is the youngest team in the league.
     
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  16. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I've ever been less thrilled by a Phins win. As I said, it was must win. I'm glad there wasn't any real drama.

    Didn't bother to find the game, just watched Red Zone to keep track and watched the Youtube recap. And there was very little shown on Red Zone.

    Seems the lack of a good running back had its effect. Two bad fumbles in the second half. Good thing the Jets are mostly a joke offensively.

    I will say that Fitzy is way more dynamic in this offence than Tua is. We'll see next week against another inferior opponent (assuming Tua gets that start) but if he doesn't impress I would have to consider letting Fitzy play the rest of the season.

    The final four games are all competitive, this week is the last game the Phins should be expected to win. I'm not even sure about this Patriots game TBH. How the Eff did they beat the Cardinals!!!????

    Glad to see Howard and DVP continue to be excellent. Both should be Pro Bowl locks. (as if the Pro Bowl is happening this season LOL)
     
  17. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I agree that there is a massive double standard in peoples evaluation.

    To me the only argument for Tua would be that maybe he understands the offense as much as he can without seeing game action. In that case I can understand putting him on the field and the desire to do so.
     
  18. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Honest question. What was so "dynamic" about Fitzpatrick yesterday?
     
  19. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    The arizona defense is fairly comparable to the Jets defense.

    Yes Arizona is a better team, but also he doesnt face the whole team he faces a singular side of the ball.

    Also it was only a great game if you entirely excuse all of his mistakes, which some are willing to do and others arent. I know you say luck counts, but looking at that game I dont see how you can argue we win it more than 3 out of 10 times. I personally call it a great game that could have turned out a lot differently, and would most of the time.
     
  20. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  21. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Why do you say that? Do you think they are done evaluating him?
     
  22. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    His point wasnt that Hill should have done more because they were missing those guys. He said Hill didn't have to do much because Denver was missing all their QB.
     
  23. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    Doc is that you?
     
  24. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Just like Jared Goff was seemingly unavailable for Tuas debut? I mean....he didn't have to do much in that game. Goff mentally checked out. But he (Tua) showed up against Arizona and The Chargers. C'mon man.
     
  25. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Based on what? Arizona's defense is ranked 14th in points allowed per game while the Jets are 29th. Arizona's opponent passer rating is 12th best in the league while the Jets are 29th best (i.e., 4th worst). In no way are these defenses "fairly comparable". Tua helped put up well more than 20 points against a far better defense.

    Oh, and the difference in opponent passer rating is pretty big. Arizona has given up a passer rating of 90.1 while the Jets have given up 104.8. That's 14.7 passer rating points difference. These aren't "comparable defenses".
     
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  26. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    You're not getting the point I dont think. Noone is saying its acceptable, they are saying for that game it was enough, and it was, good or not.
     
  27. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, in my eyes they are entirely comparable talent wise and have the same tendencies to allow big points, even if the Jets defense may do it more often.

    It doesnt really change the fact that we wouldnt win that game if it played back with the exact same decisions by Tua. It's not really fair to imply it was a great game by Tua when everything bad that should have happened didnt.

    It was an above average game all things considered IMO
     
  28. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    His ability to maintain multiple drives without the headstart of a turnover.

    It's more of a feel opinion, but he's able to recognize what needs to be done to get the first down. Against Denver Tua continually got caught trying to do too much.
     
  29. CRAZYFACE

    CRAZYFACE Active Member

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    Well I won't bother watching then. Fitz is 38 and damn well plays like it. Tua is much more exciting. He needs protection, and we could take the division. With Fitz....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. End of season.
     
  30. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Huh?
     
  31. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it's really exciting to watch Tua go 3 and out.

    I agree that Tua should be starting but it's for the future, Fitz is absolutely the better QB right now.
     
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  32. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I agree with you on most points, and basically feel the same way. Winning ugly beats losing, and the Fins are missing a number of important players, but this is not really a 7-4, probably soon to be 8-4 team in a vacuum. And while some people don't like to look at things this way, I'd say that this is probably the worst Dolphins team to be at this record in this point in the season in my time as a fan.

    That being said, progress has been made this year, and record aside, they pretty much are who I thought they would be. Flores has them playing tight, clean football most of the time, and they usually aren't losing because they screwed up. That's wonderful to see. Now, we need to actually play better in both phases of offense and both phases of defense.
     
  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I've never thought Fitz was boring. I actually really like the energy he brings. I think it's why he's lasted in the league as long as he has.
     
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  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think that is a weird way of looking at it. In the entire 2000s Miami was only 8-4 in 2003.
     
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  35. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I don't enjoy watching Fitz play. Every play seems to have the potential for disaster, and he's very limited physically these days. I'm hopeful that Tua can learn from watching how different the offense can look when you get the ball into the hands of your pass catchers after they've actually been able to run a full route.
     
  36. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I include the 90s in there too. But either way, I basically look at them as a 4-7 team who's overachieved to 7-4 through good coaching and a light schedule. I'm not complaining. I'm just not getting too excited either.
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Weird how their schedule was so hard at the beginning of the season.

    I look at them as a 7-4 team because that is what they are. But that is me, I like to look at the results presented to me instead of having an idea of what they are and then try to mold the current reality into what I thought of them at the beginning of the year.
     
  38. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Winning ugly beats losing
    Yep! It sure does! This game looked almost as bad as some of the games I saw before Marino showed up. And even he had a few that looked like they took some lipstick and slapped it on the pig and sent it to the dance!
    Guess what!?!? A pretty win does not count any more on the W-L measure than an outright shellacking of the Division Leader. And no one adds to the score of the winner based on style points.
    And, Mama said there'd be days like this - and there will be.
    Just hang on for the ride and keep the spirit up.
    What we saw beats the living bull fertilizer out of what Gase put on the field, and several other [{coaches}] we have seen stumbling around on the sidelines. And if you really wish to get a cure from this days version of the blues.... go take a look at game tapes under Dave Wannabeacoach, or Philbin, or Sparano.
     
  39. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I dont see him that way. He makes mistakes when either he relaxes because hes up big or when he has to press hard to come back. I'm generally not worried about him making a mistake every play, quite the opposite actually.

    Though there has been a false narrative pushed around this board about his career from the start so I dont think you're alone in feeling that way.
     
  40. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Light schedule????? At the start of the season this was the schedule rankings:

    2020 NFL strength of schedule (toughest to easiest)
    • 1. New England Patriots .537
    • 2. New York Jets .533
    • 3. Miami Dolphins .529
    • 4. San Francisco 49ers .527
    • T-5. Buffalo Bills .525
    • T-5. Detroit Lions .525
    • T-5. Atlanta Falcons .525
    • T-8. Arizona Cardinals .518
    • T-8. Houston Texans .518
    According to Pro Football Reference, the Dolphins had the NFL’s third most difficult schedule in the NFL through the first four weeks of the season — trailing only the New England Patriots and the Las Vegas Raiders. And after that they have had the 49ers (5-6), Rams (7-4) and Cards (6-5). Rams and Cards are currently in the playoff picture, with 49ers on the bubble. Where is the light schedule???
     

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