1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Other NFL' started by bbqpitlover, Oct 16, 2019.

Ryan Tannehill is...

  1. A terrible QB

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. A below average QB

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  3. An average QB

    7 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. An above average QB

    39 vote(s)
    55.7%
  5. An elite QB

    16 vote(s)
    22.9%
  6. The GOAT.

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  1. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,696
    3,743
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    I’ve been waiting for him to fall back to Earth, but this year he’s kept making plays. I haven’t watched too many Bills games so I don’t know if he’s getting bailed out by things like receivers making circus catches, DBs dropping Ints, video game style RAC yards, the D putting him in good field position etc. which can make a QBs stats seem better than reality. But from the limited amount I’ve seen he’s just balling.

    The other guy I haven’t seen too much of is Deshaun Watson. For me it’s insane that he has such a good passer rating on such a bad team which forces him to pass when the opposing Ds are expecting him to pass.
     
    PhinFan1968 likes this.
  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    I can easily believe that's been your experience. Let's trace the origin of this "dismissal" of anti-Tua opinions you say you've experienced. It goes back to the draft thread:
    https://www.thephins.com/threads/the-official-miami-dolphins-2020-3-day-draft-thread.95134/page-4

    Note that many people expressed all kinds of views of Tua, from highly supportive to highly negative. NO ONE got attacked for that, including you, until YOU said this in post #155:
    THAT post was the first "dismissing other people's opinion of Tua" post since we drafted him. And when people called you out for it you responded by doubling down:
    Sorry Alex, but your personal experience with anti-Tua opinions is easily explainable: you elicited a very justifiable reaction by insulting posters who were pro Tua (specifically: saying you want to laugh at everyone who is happy for taking Tua).

    As far as whether the Bengals game thread is a random sample, it's not. Look through the Denver game thread. People were not being attacked for saying Tua was playing bad. Look at the "Fitz is back" thread. Strong opinions on both sides, but no more dismissing of one side's view than the other. The evidence simply isn't there to say there's this "dismissal of any possible negative talking point" by only one side.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  3. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,815
    10,319
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    You're going to use a post Alex posted in April right after we drafted Tagovailoa as demonstrated bias against Tua? For real? We had JUST drafted the kid. There were many that had doubts and questions about Tagovailoa, from posters here to numerous sportscasters and sports writers. Drafting Tua was a HUGE gamble given his injury history.

    The draft had just been completed. Alex wanted Herbert, that's no secret as he said that many times prior to the draft (sorry Alex, I didn't want Herbert...I don't trust any QB from Oregon lol) so his expressed disappointment at drafting Tagovailoa at that particular time is consistent with many posters' expressed disappointment in selections the Dolphins made or didn't make.

    His attitude since Tua's start has been cautiously optimistic. He has some issues with Tagovailoa's performance but is hopeful he's going to be able to step up and perform consistently at the level that he was drafted for and be able to win for the Dolphins.
     
  4. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    Than you sir.

    I will admit my initial reaction was over the top and negative. That doesnt mean it's my opinion or perspective now.

    Nor was that even the time frame I was talking about so to pull that post up again is just taking a small sample and pretending it expresses the whole of my opinions or experience.

    I've tried to objectively analyze his performance since that point as well as go back and reevaluate why I had my previous position.

    So I'll be clear and say my opinion is that while I'm not sold he is a franchise QB, I do see positives and routes to getting to that point.

    If I point out things he needs to improve that isnt Tua hate, that is realistic evaluation. The same way I've been pointing out positives I see.

    It's not fair to grill people for not changing their mind AND grill them for being open to change. Hes creating a damned if I do and damned if I dont scenario now.
     
  5. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,815
    10,319
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Well to hold a person's opinion immediately following the draft on a particular player selected is foolish if you ask me. Hell, go back to the 2007 draft. The Dolphins had a SERIOUS quarterback issue. The Culpepper experiment was an epic failure by the front office, Nick Saban said eff this, I'm outta here (remember, HE wanted Brees) so in comes Cam Cameron...new head coach and look who falls into our lap on Draft Day...Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn!!!!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS....oh wait...Ted Ginn Jr?????? WHO???????

    Well folks lost the ever loving minds...to include me!!! Well, as it all turns out, Ginn did nothing for us and Quinn had a failure of an NFL career. There were avid opinions on all sides following the draft...and during the season, as there is during all drafts and all seasons, so your disappointment on draft day was no different that anyone else's.

    I had questions...and still do concerning Tagovailoa. CAN he play quarterback at the NFL level? Ummmmm, yea I think so. Is he that "generational talent" that is an instant franchise quarterback? Instant? I don't think so. I think he can develop into that franchise quarterback, much like Brees did but that I'm going to put on coaching more than anything...and I have faith in our coaching staff!

    But as it comes to the whole Tannehill debate and injecting Tagovailoa into it, it is a shame...we HAD a SOLID franchise quarterback and lost him. Hopefully we didn't repeat the mistake the Browns made with Quinn...or or don't make the same mistake we made with Tannehill.
     
    AGuyNamedAlex likes this.
  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    It's the only thing that explains the personal experience he was referring to.

    Because clearly, when you look at the threads since the Denver game, where anti-Tua sentiments became widespread (rightfully so I must say) and where evidence for anti-Tua sentiments being "dismissed" should be most easily visible, there is simply NO EVIDENCE of this claim that anti-Tua sentiments are being "dismissed" in any way different from pro-Tua sentiments. It's just patently false.

    People have different opinions on Tua and that's it. There's nothing more to it. And as I said before, it's actually quite encouraging that many posters on both sides (including Alex) are willing to let the evidence decide. So the only way to make sense of what Alex said is to go back that far.
     
  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    To be fair, he was responding to my experience- mainly a select few posters who threw temper tantrums anytime I said the word "Fitzpatrick". I mentioned earlier last week that Tua had been injured frequently throughout his career and started getting a lot of generalized blow-back in other things I posted....somehow they'd receive comments like "Burrow is glass" or "Fitz is worthless". Just little stuff like that to poke the bear.

    Everyone's experience is subjective, so maybe others see something different than I do and that's 100% okay. I'm just not in the mood for those types of games or basically "censorship via trolling". The wild part is that I'm not "against Tua" in any way, shape or form...he's our quarterback and I fully support him. But it's starting to feel like those old RT days where if you say he did something bad, you had to type out a disclaimer to avoid the troll-hate.

    One poster in particular has me intrigued- he was a world-class jerk for years, became super chatty and insightful at the start of the season, and now he's attacking everyone in epic form. I almost wonder if it's Dirty reincarnated.
     
  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    This board right now seems to have far fewer of those "jerks" and "trolls" than years ago. Some have been banned, but others seem to have found better things to do? I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the overall tone of discussion about Tua. It's nothing like the toxic atmosphere this site used to be the first few years after I joined (2014-2017 etc.).
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  9. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    Well just to be fair, my point in the end isnt that everyone loves Tua. It's that a lot of people, and I'll extend it to both sides to include what you said, dont want to hear things they dont agree with.

    I'll be honest and say my personal experience might not be reflective of the whole regardless.

    I do 100% agree the Anti-Tua sentiment has been stronger since Denver but also I dont take too much in the game thread seriously. As fans it can be hard to keep emotions in check and say the logical thing sometimes and thoughts fly out.

    I'm more interested if after the game and reflecting they feel the same.
     
  10. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,323
    4,012
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    I think Alex also brings a lot of this on himself by beating the dead horse. Every chance he gets. Posters that lean negative toward Tua don't bring the constant barrage of Tua sucks posts on what seems like everyday. If Tua does well it's dismissed by luck, or weak opponent. If he had 20 good plays and 3 bad, what's written is about the bad. That my be why he's getting the response he's getting. Tua has issues he needs to correct. He's not finished straight out of the box but when you take a repeated and repeated and repeated and repeated stance sometimes it just gets old and elicits a response that some might say he enjoys getting.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  11. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    I dont know, I feel like I've called it as I see it. If that's offensive people can block me.

    I've also said hes very adept moving left, has good pocket mobility, can sling it when he gets his body behind it and has pinpoint redzone accuracy.

    I dont care if people think I'm negative on the whole, but I don't think its fair to imply I only say negative things. If you want to go back to April sure, and like I said in game threads people are generally expressing emotion not logic.
     
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Oh, I completely agree...I'm just not thrilled that a few are starting to get aggressive like we experienced with Tannehill. Hopefully it stays mild and we can have meaningful discussions.

    Side note- the trolls I refer to despise being wrong on Tannehill and don't enter this thread, so we can have open dialogues here without the interference. I find that rather amusing...it's like we have our own private chat right out in the open.
     
    resnor and AGuyNamedAlex like this.
  13. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    I'm waiting for the 272 page thread on the main forum evaluating my performance lol
     
    resnor and KeyFin like this.
  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I remember back in the RT days, detractors would say "He ALMOST threw 3 interceptions." And I'd think, "So what, every quarterback throws dangerous passes at times." Folks really seem to be milking Tua's TD/INT ratio though to prove how amazing he is, and I often go back to those earlier conversations when the shoe was on the other foot. Yes, Tua has zero interceptions thanks to penalties, people dropping passes and just pure luck...which is great. But I'm curious to see how opinions change once a few of those picks are on the stat sheets and his QBR isn't 100+.

    I think Tua will be very good in time and I'm encouraged by what I see today- but I definitely see some really good stuff and a few really bad tendencies as well. It shouldn't be taboo to talk about both of those things at the same time in a general forum.
     
  15. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    I was about to post something similar. The only time I've really brought up luck that I can remember is in relation to the TD/INT ratio.

    You pretty much addressed it though. I dont think poor decisions mean he will be horrible, but I believe in evaluating the plays and not the results.

    Just because I say hes made some bad choices doesnt mean I find his good plays less encouraging it's just like "Okay, let's see if in the future these bad decisions go away"

    Plus I post here a lot so of course people will see my repeated opinion. I want to keep this forum active. It's basically dying, we need conversation.
     
    resnor likes this.
  16. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Ya and Tannehill has his fair share of those bad bounces...like the "INT" he threw against the Browns lol.

    Regarding Tua so far, he has definitely shown elite flashes, IMO. Consistency and adjustment to the NFL game seem to be his only real hurdles at this point (withstanding weapons and such). I just wish he had Tannehill's arm!
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  17. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,323
    4,012
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    A receiver doesn't catch a catchable ball and bounces it up in the air and it goes on the stat sheet as an interception. That's why all these "almost" comments don't mean anything unless you take away the ones that "shouldn't have been".
     
    AGuyNamedAlex likes this.
  18. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

    4,587
    1,707
    113
    Nov 25, 2012
    Germany
    If he wins multiple SB‘s, the Dolphins did something wrong until then I‘m fine with how things have turned out after Tannehill so far and he was by far the best QB we had, since Dan hope that‘s going to change sooner rather then later.
     
  19. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    So the point isnt how many could be interceptions. It's how many good or bad decisions a QB makes.

    NFL games are tight and a few bad plays are enough to lose a game.

    I'm speaking of every QB in the NFL right now. The most important indicator I can think of for future success is consistent decision making.
     
  20. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,474
    2,954
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    Well, another myth busted.....

    All this while Henry gets 60 yards rushing.....

    upload_2020-12-10_15-20-25.png

    upload_2020-12-10_15-19-49.png
     
    KeyFin and resnor like this.
  21. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,474
    2,954
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    LOL @ multiple SBs..... The Dolphins passed on both Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. Are you contending that we can't call those decisions wrong?

    I do agree that hopefully Tua will be the best Dolphins QB of all time. I love Marino but I'd like nothing more than the have to admit that Tua is better.....
     
  22. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

    4,587
    1,707
    113
    Nov 25, 2012
    Germany
    Don’t know what Brees and Rodgers have to do with Tannehill, or the Dolphins regime that is here right now.
     
  23. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,474
    2,954
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    I thought it was pretty clear. I was commenting on your assertion that it would take multiple SB wins by Tannehill for it to be considered a mistake to let Tannehill go. Seems like an odd statement. I was using the examples of the mistakes of passing on Brees and Rodgers to show that it doesn't take multiple SB wins by the QB for those to be considered mistakes. Clearly you are setting a high bar on the Tannehill outcome in and attempt to deflect blame from the organization. It is okay to admit they screwed up. It is not the first time (as I showed) and it will not be the last. (To be even more clear. Neither Brees or Rodgers has multiple SBs).
     
    resnor and phinsfan1221 like this.
  24. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

    770
    641
    93
    Dec 8, 2019
     
  25. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,323
    4,012
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    The problem with that is if he fits it into a tight window and it’s a catch it’s a great play. If it’s popped up it was a bad decision. Also you don’t always know if the receiver ran the wrong route or turned in when he should have turned out. That then becomes a “bad throw”.
     
    resnor and AGuyNamedAlex like this.
  26. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    I would disagree with and agree with that.

    Obviously there are certain plays where you cant know who is at fault, but those are usually obvious. If he throws an out and the receiver runs an in we can tell someone was wrong, we just cant assign blame without more info.

    The tight windows, it would depend. If a QB tried to fit it in but made a less than accurate throw I'd mark it against them. If it was a tight window and hit the receivers hands I'm blaming the receiver.

    It also depends on the scenario. On 3rd and long trailing in the game I'm giving a QB more leeway than first and ten with a tied score.
     
    resnor likes this.
  27. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

    4,587
    1,707
    113
    Nov 25, 2012
    Germany
    First of all Tannehill is not in the league of a Brees or Rodgers imo (more like Alex Smith) + this regime didn’t pass on those 2 and it looks like we found ourselves Someone if he can hold up. If Tannehill becomes the worldbeater and wins multiple SB‘s and Tua can’t hold up or we don‘t find a good replacement, then yeah I would see it as a mistake that we let him go, but right now I‘m fine with it and don’t see a mistake there by the Dolphins.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
  28. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,474
    2,954
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    Irrelevant and I disagree with the Alex Smith comparison. Tannehill has firmly established himself in the 5 - 10 range.

    Also irrelevant

    Hopefully but also mean that the team didn' screw up on the Tannehill decision.

    They PAID a team to take a top 10 QB off their hands. That QB led the new team to the AFC championship in the first year and has them in playoff contention again, and you don't see a mistake..... LOL.....
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  29. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

    4,587
    1,707
    113
    Nov 25, 2012
    Germany
    Back then no one wanted him, so the whole NFL ****ed up, if Tannehill is the QB you’re seeing in him, not only the Dolphins. Keep your cringe towards the team for letting him go, instead of enjoying the times we’re having right now. I‘m happy with how things are right now and for the first time in a long long time, I really have some faith in this team and management and unless that changes, I for myself don’t have to cry over letting go a QB of the Alex Smith mold, but hey that’s just me.
     
  30. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,474
    2,954
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    upload_2020-12-11_14-20-30.png

    Anybody see anything interesting here? Oh yes, Tannehill is the QB for Davis and Brown.
     
    PhinFan1968 and resnor like this.
  31. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,474
    2,954
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    upload_2020-12-11_14-31-30.png
     
    Irishman, PhinFan1968 and resnor like this.
  32. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    Alex Smith is one of my favorite QB and I'll just say he and Tannehill have just about 0 direct comparison other than struggling early and coming on.

    If that's the route we want to go, I can say Tannehill is like any player who has ever struggled and then had success.

    They are entirely different QB. Smith is/was like a slightly mobile Chad Pennington with a slightly better arm if I have to compare. If he had the arm talent of Tannehill hed probably be an elite QB.
     
    resnor and FinFaninBuffalo like this.
  33. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,474
    2,954
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    No, you just have to pretend that he isn't as good as he is so that you can feel better. But, hey, that's just you.
     
  34. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,474
    2,954
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    I liked the passive aggressive stance of the poster.... What's the big deal, it's just Alex Smith.....Smith's career high in TD passes is 26. HIs best passer rating was 104.7.
     
    AGuyNamedAlex likes this.
  35. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

    4,587
    1,707
    113
    Nov 25, 2012
    Germany
    He had Brees, Rodgers and Tannehill in one sentence, :) I had to compare him to somebody and that’s how I see him as an above average QB, hey that might change over the years. But I still don’t get why people are still obsessed with this guy, even though we’re doing quite good ourselves right now + back then no one wanted him, no one, so even then the Dolphins were not alone with their assessment and this regime has nothing to do with mistakes (Brees) we did years ago, I‘m out of this thread, hope you guys get over it someday.
     
    AGuyNamedAlex likes this.
  36. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    3,582
    2,579
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    At this stage of their careers just based on longevity I'd take Tannehill over Brees honestly.

    I dont think anyone compares to Rodgers. Green Bay would probably be picking top five every year without him. It's a shame they cant surround him with enough talent and expect him to do it all.
     
    JJ_79 likes this.
  37. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,474
    2,954
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    LOL @ "above average QB" and "that might change over the years"......


    [​IMG]

    Tennessee disagreed with the Dolphins assessment of Tannnehill. NO disagreed with the Dolphins assessment of Brees. There wasn't a league wide scramble to draft Brees, sign Brees after SD let him go, or a scramble to draft Rodgers. That doesn't make the decisions any less wrong.
     
  38. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    The mistake wasn't in the letting him go...it was screwing him over with turd coaching and surrounding cast for multiple years. Best thing they did, for THIS organization at that point, was let him go and start the drawing board with a completely clean slate. Also best for Tannehill. Win-win. I'm still pissed at the team for having Dan Marino for a career and winning ZERO titles, and yes, I put a chunk of that blame on the legendary Don Shula. I know that may be sacrilege around the old-timers here, but he has to shoulder a chunk of that. So they screwed over another QB career. All teams do it, except for, like, the Steelers, so its whatever.

    I'm happy as hell we seem to have found our young guy to build a team around going forward, and I'm happy as hell Tannehill was able to land somewhere he could show all the people I argued with over the years, that they had it wrong. After Crash Jensen, Dan Marino, and Zach Thomas, and slightly ahead of Cam Wake, Tannehill is still my favorite Dolphin.
     
  39. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,474
    2,954
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    Great post. I agree on all points. My favorite Dolphins are Marino, Tannehill, Zach, JT, Tim Bowens. I watched the early 1970s Dolphins but I don't remember the teams well enough to put guys like Griese, Csonka, et al on my short list.

    I have never had a second favorite team in my entire time watching the Dolphins, until now. I'll still root for the Dolphins but when they are out, I'll be cheering for the Titans.
     
    Cashvillesent and PhinFan1968 like this.
  40. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,815
    10,319
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Can’t put too much blame on Don Shula. Mike Robbie, the son of Dolphins owner Joe Robbie was the GM of the team. Granted, Shula had influence on which players to draft however, go back and actually look at the drafts from 85 on...who could Miami seriously have drafted?

    In the 85 draft, they drafted Lorenzo Hampton, a running back who was also a great pass blocker at Florida. Help for Marino

    In the 86 draft, Miami didn’t have a pick until the 2nd round, and drafted all pro John Offerdahl

    In the 87 draft, they COULD have drafted Christian Okoye, but he wasn’t drafted until the 2nd round by Kansas City...and ultimately had immigration issues that caused him to be deported.

    The point being, it’s not Shulas fault Miami was successful causing them to often draft towards the end on the 1st round and trading for players was often a costly measure with future draft picks.
     

Share This Page