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Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Other NFL' started by bbqpitlover, Oct 16, 2019.

Ryan Tannehill is...

  1. A terrible QB

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. A below average QB

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  3. An average QB

    7 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. An above average QB

    39 vote(s)
    55.7%
  5. An elite QB

    16 vote(s)
    22.9%
  6. The GOAT.

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  1. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    They also have offenses that don't do their defenses any favors. The Titans control the ball and their defense STILL sucks.
     
  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You can adjust for offense. The correlation between points scored and points allowed across NFL history is -0.3 and since both axes are in the same units that's the slope of the best fitting line. When you adjust points allowed per game for points scored the Titans (adjusted) points allowed per game goes up to 27.48 and it puts them at 26th.

    Best not to use ranks though. In terms of z-scores they're -0.8262 below average while the worst team for adjusted points allowed per game is the Raiders with an adjusted 30.76 points allowed per game and a z-score of -1.8009.

    So yes the Titans have a bad defense, but even after adjusting for offensive production it's nowhere near close to the worst in the NFL. That's a 1 standard deviation difference between the worst and the Titans, even after adjusting.
     
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  3. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I'd bet that if you adjusted further for things like turnovers, and average length of offensive drive, they'd look even worse. The Titans do not turn the ball over very much. They may not be the worst, but they are very, very bad for a team looking to make noise in the playoffs.

    They are basically playing with an ideal offense for defensive success. The Titans run the ball, score a lot, and don't turn it over. They also have a great punter that is good at pinning the other team deep.
     
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  4. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Not trying to rip on anyone but.....some of the early posts in this thread didn't age too well.

    upload_2020-12-19_12-46-5.png
     
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  5. MediocrityLivesOn

    MediocrityLivesOn Member

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    Where did we go wrong with Tannehill? Dude's been on a roll since we got rid of him.
     
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  6. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    See the careers of his former Offensive Co-ordinators since they left Miami.
    - Mike Sherman
    - Bill Lazor
    - Zac Thomas (QBs coach under Sherman and Lazor then interim OC after Lazor got fired)
    - Adam Gase
    Bonus: Adam Gase’s sock puppet who’s name I forgot who followed him to the Jets
     
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  7. MediocrityLivesOn

    MediocrityLivesOn Member

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    Hahahahaha, you mean the worst coaching staff in history? Of course he is doing way better without those losers.
     
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  8. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Combine that with that horrific string of linemen that failed to block and it is not at all difficult to understand.

    PS. the QB coach was Zac Taylor.
     
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  9. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    We had poor ownership, poor coaching, poor general management, and below-average player development as a standard. If we had him right now, we'd likely be leading the division, IMO, because a lot of those poor traits from past years have been either negated or flipped around to strengths.

    Additionally, a lot of the mediocrity and lack of success was placed on his shoulders, accurately or not (definitely not). Many fans hated him, for reasons I can't figure out, besides maybe the fact that he's not Dan Marino. I saw all the flashes early on, and I saw their consistency grow, I knew he'd be a great QB if placed on a "team" with good talent and coaching.
     
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  10. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    This was a pretty good one. Predicted what would happen last season and last season SHOULD have ended the debate. Instead, some (maybe one) just changed the parameters...
     
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  11. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Things one stings a little.....
     
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  12. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    At the end of the day, the ONLY stat that matters is the scoreboard. You either won or you lost, period.

    Now football is a TEAM sport. Offense and defense; two separate sides of the ball that have equal responsibilities. Now there’s no argument Tennessee’s defense is a very weak unit. Because they are not carrying out their equal responsibility to the level they should be, it’s placing a much harder burden on the offensive of the ball to make up that shortcoming.

    This is a game played by human beings and as such, no one is perfect, let alone an entire group perfect all at the same time. Offensively, there have been games Tannehill could have played better. There are games that Henry could have played better but overall, the offense has not been the reason the Titans have the loses they have, save a couple of games.

    No fair minded person can legitimately argue the Titans would have done as well or better with Mariotta at quarterback. Furthermore, no fair minded person can legitimately argue that Tannehill was a poor quarterback in Miami. We have nearly two full seasons with Tannehill under a different coaching regime, with talent that was lacking in Miami, not to mention nearly two full season of the Dolphins under a new coaching regime and essentially 2 different 1st year teams, last season with the GUTTED roster and had SURPRISING wins and this season with the Dolphins in playoff contention.

    These two elements taken together clearly demonstrate the void that existed in Miami during Tannehill’s tenure.

    Tagovailoa has an advantage in Miami that Tannehill lacked; he’s playing for an incredible head coach and a good football team.

    Both quarterbacks are set up for future long term success. No knock on Tagovailoa, he does give us the potential of longevity due to his youth but as a Tannehill fan, I would have loved to have had him remain in Miami and do for us here what he’s done in Tennessee.
     
  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Doesn't matter what Tannehill does in Tennessee, it would have been a major mistake to keep Tannehill in Miami. Tannehill was average in Miami, even with average surrounding cast except at OL which was consistently bad, and at HC. It simply takes too much luck to build up and sustain the right surrounding cast for a QB like Tannehill to play like he's doing now.

    You need HC's and QB's that can overcome subpar talent. Flores has done that on defense, and we need Tua to do that on offense. That's why it would have been the right move to do what I kept insisting, which was in 2017 after Tannehill's injury to use whatever draft capital needed to pick a QB high. By luck we get Mahomes or Watson. That's also why it was the right move to replace Tannehill with Tua who at least is showing the potential to "carry" a team when necessary.

    We'll see how Tua does today. He needs to play well even when so many offensive weapons (which are mostly average anyway) are out due to injury. We know Tannehill can't do that. Tua has to prove he can or we need a replacement at QB, and of course I'll give Tua 3 years to prove it like I did Tannehill. Otherwise, the probability of winning a SB just goes way down.
     
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  14. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    75 yards bomb by Tannehill to Davis.

    Man he sure trust his accuracy. The guy is throwing the ball in tight windows.
     
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  15. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  16. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Tannehill with 5 total TDs today.



    Still...all anyone in the media will want to discuss is the Henry stiff arm :001_rolleyes:
     
  17. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    His performance today puts him in 3rd in passer rating. Good stuff.

    And he has a shot of moving ahead of Mahomes for 2nd (thanks in large part to the Dolphins' 3 INTs against him).
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
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  18. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL..... other than crap at OL and coaching, Miami was average.... lol.

    how about TE? RB? WR?

    Get over it. Tannehill is far far better than you thought. The Dolphins screwed up. Tua working out (he looked great today) is irrelevant to the crap job they did with Tannehill.
     
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  19. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Run / pass ratios..... doesn’t count....
     
  20. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Our WR's were overall average. No one is looking at the WR's we had and saying they were crap. Even our own fanbase wasn't saying that for several of those years. Running game we actually were top 10 for some of the years while Tannehill was here. Defense too. We went over this already.

    And if anyone needs to "get over it" it's you. All you talk about is Tannehill. Makes you wonder if you even care about the Dolphins. Tannehill isn't on this team anymore. In fact he's on a team we're competing against for a playoff spot. If you really care about the Dolphins you should root AGAINST him and AGAINST the Titans.
     
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  21. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    yeah, we could have been lucky enough to get Watson and watch him “carry “ his team to a 4-10 record.

    I like what I see from Tua but how the hell has he shown the ability to carry a team?
     
  22. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha ha. You really don’t like getting schooled.
     
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  23. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    He hasn't proven it yet, but the Arizona game showed potential. The fact he still played well today despite having no receiving threats is a good sign. Still not there yet though. Like I said I'll give it 3 years.

    Bad comeback, try again.
     
  24. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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  25. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I'm gonna need the Dolphins and Titans to win-out...where it would be Miami @ Tennessee 1st round of the playoffs.
     
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  26. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Tennessee defense is awful. Rodgers is going to roast their pathetic defense.
     
  27. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    It is, but they've had their moments. If they can ignore a portion of Rodgers' PA stuff, they should have a chance. If they can get up for that game, they should finish out 12-4 (not that Houston is a gimme...it's a division game and they have their own quirks).
     
  28. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    In fairness...that stiff-arm is a felony in many states.
     
  29. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    I think its going to be a shoot out for both teams. Snow in the forecast in Green Bay, and It'll be King Henry all day
     
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  30. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    I should start a Tannehill website and charge $1 per post I'd make a killing just off 3-5 posters alone.
     
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  31. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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  32. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    You thought it was mostly Tannehill's fault in Miami - wrong
    You thought Tannehill would be no better in Tennessee - wrong
    You thought he wouldn't sustain it in Tennessee - wrong
    You didn't think Tannehill would continue his success this season - wrong

    The conclusion that you came to was - Tannehill is a different QB..... WTF? Not that Miami screwed up? Somehow Tannehill changed? LOL.

    Now you're joining The Guy with the nonsensical position that the situation in Tennessee is some magically, lucky circumstance that is unlikely to be replicated..... WTF? How? This year alone, Dalvin Cook has very similar stats.

    The answer is simple. The coaching and supporting cast in the Tannehill era SUCKED. It can no longer be denied. We weren't "average except for OL and coaching". We had NO RELIABLE PLAY MAKERS in the skill positions. No difference makers at RB, or TE. No reliable big play threats at WR. Not one single RB, TE, or WR that scared defenses. None. Combine that with terrible coaching and an OL that looked like it was TRYING to get their QB killed and big surprise, the passing offense wasn't great. In hindsight, we should have been shocked the offense was as good as it was.

    You are very good with the stats, but you completely misread the situation in Miami and it is still affecting your perceptions.
     
  33. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't a stiff arm, it was an open hand strike. Honestly, it should probably be illegal. There is no other play in the game where one player can rear back and smash another player in the face. You could hear that.
     
  34. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    upload_2020-12-20_18-59-46.png
     
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  35. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Happy wife, happy life!!!
     
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  36. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Sorry you're simply wrong about saying I'm wrong about us being average except at OL and coaching, and provably so w.r.t. the running game and defense.

    We were 2nd best in the NFL in rushing Y/C in 2014, and top 10 in 2015, 2016 and 2018. In other words, 4 out of 6 years we were top 10 in rushing efficiency while Tannehill was here, so overall slightly above average. And the defense was top 10 in two years, slightly below average in 3, and near worst in 1. That's average overall (in fact exactly so if you go by rank).

    It's only with WR's that we can't directly use stats because it's so confounded with Tannehill, but consider who the WR's were: Wallace, Stills, Landry, Harline, Bess, Clay etc. No way any neutral observer would look at that and say that's way below average. That's probably an "average" cast IMO.

    So yes what I said is correct: Tannehill had an average surrounding cast except at OL and coaching.

    Regarding the difficulty in putting together the necessary surrounding cast for QB's like Tannehill to play at a high level, that's just a question of probability: if you need to have good talent at a lot of positions it's harder than if you don't need it at many positions. A nonsensical position would state the opposite.
     
  37. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    He is doing all this with a third string LT. Titans oline has been banged up all year. Lewan been out since week 6.
     
  38. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL @ needing to use YPC as the stat for the running game...... seriously, name a difference maker at the position..... Ajayi for 12 games in 2016? Sure, Tannehill led the team to the playoffs when that happened.

    The defense was decent in Tannehill's first two years while the team was rebuilding the offense. After that... sucked.

    Wallace - sucked
    Hartline was a marginal WR and out of the league shortly after leaving Miami.
    Ditto with Bess.
    Landry would have been great as a 2nd or 3rd WR..... unfortunately, they needed to feature him because they had nobody else. No objective observer would rank Landry as an average #1 WR.
    Ditto with Stills. Specialty guy. Not a game changer. Average.
    Clay was gone after 2014 and Tannehill got a mediocre TE paid.



    I disagree. Even if I were to agree..... LAUGH OUT LOUD @ putting "average" skill positions together with trash on the OL and brain dead coaching and expecting anything other than crap results, unless the QB......... were...... very..... very.... good...... If only we could test that hypothesis by putting that QB in with good coaching and a good supporting cast. Perhaps they'd be one of the top scoring offenses in the league...... hmmm......

    A nonsensical position would say that it is easier to find an elite QB than build a solid team around a very very good QB.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  39. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    That's the proper stat to use. Yards per game is confounded by running out the clock.

    Wallace was considered a top flight WR when we got him. Tannehill simply could not time Wallace. Roethlisberger had no trouble making Wallace a serious deep threat.

    The point is, what I said is true. Our WR's were generally not considered poor by many, not even by many here on this board. Best description for them is "average". Again, it's only the OL and coaching that were subpar.

    Total non-sequitur since I never argued that. What I said is correct. It's harder to keep the proper surrounding pieces in place for a QB like Tannehill than one that can "carry" a team. Tannehill is ONLY that very good QB with the proper surrounding cast. So yes I stand by what I said in that it was good to ditch Tannehill for a QB with the potential to carry a team. Hopefully Tua proves he's that QB. So far it's looking good in his rookie year.
     
  40. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I'll look forward to the league crowning the YPC leader this season...... Also interesting that you must now admit that Henry is only the 5th best RB in the league and only marginally better than a lot of other RBs. I mean, YPC, am I right?

    No he wasn't. Besides, I don't care what he did elsewhere. He sucked in Miami. They tried to turn him into a #1 WR and they failed.

    I disagree and (as you already know) you won't convince me otherwise. Just look at how many WRs that Tannehill played with were out of the league shortly after leaving Miami.

    Totally irrelevant if you can't find that unicorn...... BTW, they ditched Tannehill for RYAN FITZPATRICK.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2020
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