1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

OC Position

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
     
  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    the only other choice I know is Harris and he turned everyone down. Maybe the guy in Pittsburgh, but they seem to let him get away the year before, so I can't imagine they were too excited about him. Plus he got a promotion. All of the other names weren't contacted.

    The Dorsey thing is weird though. Why did all those Dolphin employees like him on social media? That part I think doesn't look great. But it also doesn't matter.

    I think their choice is to always promote from within. I don't see how you view it that way.

    I gave up years ago with "having confidence" in moves. I was confident in Gase. I had questions about Flores. I too tired of being wrong and will just see if it works out.
     
  3. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Ultimately that's how it has to go, but as both humans and fans we feel placated and happy with some things, while others get the eyebrow raise. This one, for me, gets an eyebrow raise.

    They interviewed like 4-5 outside candidates, all of whom except Pep Hamilton got snapped up relatively quick. Then the whole weird thing with Dorsey. Then speculation about waiting on someone from a Super Bowl team. If the plan was simply to promote from within, they should have just done that from the start like most teams that do internal hires. Dicking around for weeks, interviewing a wide range of people who get hired elsewhere while you sit on your thumbs only to later go "Oh yeah, I guess we will promote these dudes after all" makes it seem like we settled on our third or fourth option.

    While my or your feeling as a fan has 0 influence on the outcome, it just leaves me a bit sour and marginally less excited for next year. I do hope I am proven wrong, Studs in particular is a well respected dude and I like the news about blended concepts rather than shoving an outdated scheme down our throats.
     
  4. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

    8,605
    6,743
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Slightly left of center
    Like I tell my kids and my employees, EVERY DAY is a job interview. Every. Day. How do you rise to it?

    Why wouldn't you want to evaluate how someone leads with every leadership opportunity available? Maybe the Senior Bowl isn't a true test, but if they can't handle it you have an answer. If they do well, great! Can they take it up a level tomorrow?
     
    Dol-Fan Dupree likes this.
  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Who? I forgot about Pep.

    Dorsey was never contacted.

    None of the super bowl people were contacted, so that was just speculation.

    To you they have been dicking around for weeks, now it seems like they weren't, they had a plan. It is only sitting on their thumbs if you want to look at it that way.

    Everything I have read about Flores makes me believe that he likes to promote from within. It looks like it went the way they wanted too.
     
    JJ_79 and Puka-head like this.
  6. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

    8,605
    6,743
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Slightly left of center
    I thought it was Studesville all along. See post 50 in this thread. For those of you thinking the process is flawed think of it this way...

    I really like Toyota Trucks. But The Ford F-150 is the best selling truck in the country, for decades, and i gotta admit they sure look purty. And we've had Chevy and GMC SUVs that were amazing. So I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy a new Tundra, but the Tacomas have enough towing capacity for my little boat and I've been driving one of those for years. But Ford never took the bailout money and every goddamn cowboy in the world wants one so... I better go check them out. I'm going to check out the new Chevy's too, but I'm getting old so I'd probably rather have all the cool stuff in the GMC, that new tailgate is sexy. OK I hear you all you Ram boys but just no. No. Just NO.

    Ok so I drove the Ford and it was (a ford) OK. Nice truck.
    And the GMC is sexy as hell, and I sure would enjoy the ride, but like all sexy things, high maintenance.
    Well, I knew it all along, but at least I put in the work to confirm it. Keep my Tacoma, cuz it's paid for and I can. And I really like my new (used, who can afford a new one!?) Tundra Limited edition with the heated steering wheel and Bose stereo. Wish it had that GMC tailgate but I'll live. (Yes, true story, just 2 months ago)

    Why have the two guys share the job? My Assistant Managers have their own departments, and each of them is being trained and developed to do each others jobs, and mine. Each of them have two Supervisors, each with specific responsibilities within the department, but each also being cross trained and qualified in each others jobs, and their AM's job. And so on thru the team. Part of every teammates responsibility is training their back up, lifting each other up. If you are scared of being replaced, you need to be. I think this explains the reasoning behind the Gailey hire. Leadership development.

    It's good business. It creates competition, in a good way if the people can handle it. If they can't, they're in the wrong business. The NFL is a business, not a religion or a government, the ultimate Meritocracy. This kind of foundation creates dynasty's and empires that stand.

    I like what I'm seeing
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
    PhinFan1968 likes this.
  7. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

    4,587
    1,707
    113
    Nov 25, 2012
    Germany
    If that's the case, one could think this is an indication, we'll not going to trade for Watson...
     
  8. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    That decision will probably be made above the pay grade of the coach.
     
    tirty8 likes this.
  9. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

    4,587
    1,707
    113
    Nov 25, 2012
    Germany
    Agreed, but do you think Flores is not included in this at all?
     
  10. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    7,480
    5,637
    113
    Mar 18, 2009
    A truly great outlook Puka. Love it!
     
    Puka-head likes this.
  11. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    I'm sure he will be consulted, but when it comes to a star QB who can put butts in the seat and make the team an instant SB contender, then I think the owner will be the one making the call.
     
    DOLFANMIKE likes this.
  12. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,323
    4,012
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    Then why have a GM?
     
    JJ_79 likes this.
  13. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    Don't ask me. When it comes to decisions as big as this, the owner almost always is the one making the final call. Hell, there are strong rumors that Ross made the call when it came to drafting Tua, that Flores wouldn't have used that pick on a QB.
     
  14. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    You're only avoiding the Ram 'cuz you know you'll buy it if you drive it. :) Motor Trend's Truck of the Year 3x in a row...record. Sure do love mine, but if I had to pick a non-Ram, it would have to be the Tundra, especially since they're built down the road from me and I know some folks that work in that process. Great truck, the Tundra, especially that 1794 edition...gorgeous!
     
    Puka-head likes this.
  15. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,323
    4,012
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    I've had my Tundra for 13 years. Almost 150K miles. Love that truck.
     
    Puka-head and PhinFan1968 like this.
  16. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I don't believe they just gave up...I believe Flo earnestly believed this was the better move over hiring guys like McDaniel and the others (right or wrong). He hasn't shown he's an expert OC-hiring HC, so its certainly fair to be critical of it...we'll just have to see how it turns out.
     
    Puka-head and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  17. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    7,480
    5,637
    113
    Mar 18, 2009
    If true (and, I have no reason to think it's not), that's just another example of how an owner can handcuff an organization. Let your decision makers make the decisions. That's what you pay them for!

    Also, if true I would love to know who Flores wanted instead. If it wasn't a QB, then it wasn't Herbert. Bechton perhaps? Or, maybe Simmons. Hmmm...
     
  18. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    So let me get this straight.

    We are drafting better
    Coaching players up
    developing more talent we bring in

    We just won the most football games since what 13 years ago...???

    And you are done???


    LMAO

    Do you hate winning?
     
    PhinFan1968 and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Yes, I believe it is fully reasonable to critizize whether or not he will be successful in his OC hires.

    I think it is just plain wrong to criticize the process or whether he can attract talent as we have not seen the process or him fail to hire someone he wants.
     
    Etrius24 likes this.
  20. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    More than that

    For decades we over spent to get known players to come here and they seldom panned out. Wallace, Suh... Flores is a scheme and character guy.... He does not have to overspend to get the talent in here to win. He coaches the **** out of players and switches their roles matching their skills with our scheme. ( And it works. )

    The players here love Flores... They want to play for him. Because we have started to win.. Other players will want to come and play here as well.

    So until Flores shows me there is something he cannot do... Until the front office shows me that there is something they cannot accomplish under the guidance of Flores... I am not worried or overly critical.
     
    Phin McCool and Finatik like this.
  21. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,817
    10,321
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    You know, giving all of this some more thought, something else comes to mind...

    Didn’t Flores start off in New England as scout in 2004? Recognizing talent, pursuing players and working his way up the coaching ladder? How has that worked out for New England?

    One of the top ranked defensive units in the league during his time with the Patsies. Not to mention a complete turn around of the Dolphins in his 2 years in Miami.

    Last season Miami won 5 games in 2019 with a gutted roster. This season Miami won 10 games. If we don’t win at least 10 games next season and it’s obviously offensively related, then everyone can point fingers but if we do win at least 10 games and the other 6 losses we’re competitively close, everyone needs to sit back, be quiet and trust in Flores.
     
  22. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

    4,587
    1,707
    113
    Nov 25, 2012
    Germany
    Depends on the owner, when you talk Cowboys that is a given...
     
  23. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    Don't forget Snyder.
     
    JJ_79 likes this.
  24. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    All worthy points I agree with.

    Now, if you'll permit me to play devil's advocate, here's an alternate perspective. Flores' defensive chops are at the very least credible right now, and that he can lead, motivate and discipline a team also seems demonstrable. However, on the offensive side of the ball he has so far rotated OC's and not had great production. If this continues and the rare pairing of OC's doesn't work out, it going to look more and more like he's lost on offense, and that won't be good news for a HC. Maybe if his finds a brilliant OC to offset would could be a glaring weakness, it will be workable. But if not, it might be his undoing as HC. You can't be horrible on O in today's league.

    Second, are there questions bubbling about his ability to inspire coaches and players such that maybe the disciplined leaders is a bit of a pain and not easy to work with? The earlier leak about Tua from some other players, who specifically said that Flores told them not to talk, suggests that some don't follow him 100%. The flux in offensive coaches could also indicate that either he's not great to coach under, or at least, coach offensive football under.

    Speculation all of it, but a possible reality that only time will prove or disprove.

    Reality #2 - Owner Ross meddles a bit too much or else is indecisive. We had a HC and GM reporting directly to him. We had Tua appear mid-season in a way that was a shock to players and that Flores didn't seem committed to. Now we have two OC's. Could it be that Flores doesn't have the full liberty?
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  25. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    We could lose more games next year simply based off the increased difficulty in schedule, finishing 2nd in the division. Our strength of victory for 2020 was 6th lowest in the league...only playoff team with a worst SOV than Miami's was Chicago.
     
  26. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    As skeptical as I am about this hire overall, I don't think it came about from a Ross demand. If anything, he would have ordered (and overpayed) for a splashy big name QB guru rather than two low-key internal hires.
     
    Etrius24 likes this.
  27. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    Agreed.. Ross has money... and zero football IQ
     
    PhinFan1968 likes this.
  28. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,817
    10,321
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Then based on a more difficult schedule, a 10 win season next year would be an improvement on this season’s record, would it not?
     
  29. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    Maybe. But not really. No one wants to hear how tough your schedule was. The only thing that matters in the NFL is Ws.
     
  30. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I'd say so, personally, but its nuanced. IMO, Ws and Ls aren't all of the story...not saying its everything, but strength of victory (unless you're very high in wins, or very high in losses) is a consideration on the record. Its not the meat, not even the potatoes, but its on the plate.

    The Dolphins beat ONE team that ended the season with a winning record, out of 5 tries, went 1-4 against playoff teams, and lost one to a team with a losing record, so they essentially beat below average teams to get their record, which I guess is kind of a baseline for an "above average" team (and I'm NOT complaining). The LV win was ridiculous luck, but games like that can go either way...odds against the Facemask Fling had to be astronomical. Turnovers REALLY helped this year (1st in take-aways, 3rd in differential). That's a hard thing to maintain.

    However, compared to the 2019 wins, most of their wins were by a very good margin. If the team can improve (which, why shouldn't it?), 10-6 should be the low bar, even if they run into some poor luck (like Buffalo @ Arizona, or LV against Miami). Not including the Washington FT, 7 games next year against 2020 playoff teams (but that is always in flux). Having a 2nd place schedule is supposed to be harder than a 4th place...playing against the Ravens (probable loss) and Raiders (toss-up) in 2021 is definitely a big jump over playing against the Jags and Bengals in 2020 (both easy games), no? I just believe the 2020 Dolphins, if they were stagnant would have a worse record in 2021...if the AFC stays as tough as it was this year. I also believe they'll improve, how much remains to be seen, but I definitely expect it...and that's Flo's fault.
     
  31. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020
    What matters is making the playoffs.

    We all love the improvement and we won 10 games... but not making the playoffs stings. Next year we will have a Qb with some experience and the O line will have had time to gel. Our expectations are playoffs and we expect at least 1 win I think.

    It does not matter if we win 10 games or 12... I mean we all want to win 12 games obviously... If we make the playoffs and our QB has taken a step forward we will not be the type of fans that are just happy to make the playoffs our expectations are going to be higher.. We will expect to give the Chiefs, Titans, Ravens, or Bills a run for their money... We will be eager to see how we stack up against the best teams in the AFC

    That is what the ten-win season this year did this year... We can now recover from being grateful that we won more than 8 games and we did not suck phase of fanhood.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  32. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014


    Studsey
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  33. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
     
  34. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

    3,770
    1,500
    113
    Oct 25, 2010
    Maryland
    Dolphins 2016 record 10-6. The offense continues to be bad and we haven't won a playoff game in 20 years. We aren't winning anything that matters.
     
  35. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014

Share This Page