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Calling it early Miami 3rd place in AFC east miss playoffs

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Mar 26, 2021.

  1. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I don't want Tua slinging the ball 50 times a game. Unless you're Tom Brady you aren't going to be successful.
     
  2. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I want Flores restraining him from slinging it 50 times a game. I don't want him restraining himself.
     
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  3. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Your problem is probably with Chan Gailey more than anyone.
     
  4. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    delaware
    Lol!95 percent! Incorrect as usual.
     
  5. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Oh the irony :sidelol:
     
  6. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    To me, this is a sign of good coaching much like the previous year. In 2019, we should have won 1-2 games and he got them to win 5. Last year we were probably a 6-8 win team talent wise. We also had an incredibly young roster with no off-season. So what happens when that talent develops and catches up with the coaching?
     
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  7. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
     
  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I agree with you about 2019 as well. Totally. But how long can that continue? Can Flores & Company take an 8-8 team and go 13-3? I think that we're going to start getting to the point of diminishing returns as far as that goes, where you can only really squeeze so much out of a lesser roster.

    The key from this point will be coaching the players up so that they actually perform well on offense and defense without the absolute need for the amazing, unpredictible plays that we've relied on.
     
    Dorfdad likes this.
  9. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Just for the record this wasn’t about TUA At all I believe he will be a pretty decent quarterback not sure how high ceiling is but we will see this whole thread was about building around him on the offense and building a defense that can win the AFC East if we can’t win the AFC East we are never going to be the dominant team

    What I’m saying is that from free agency with a young team with a 10 and six record we have a window and that window is usually filled with key free agencies that help get you over that home to put you either into the playoffs or the Super Bowl and it’s just my opinion that we didn’t for the front office didn’t feel that we were in a position to take that next step yet

    For so many years the New England Patriots for the clear dominant team in the east while the Jets bills or bottom dwellers Miami was always talked about there in that second position now the bills I’ve taken first the New England Patriots have improved the Jets are going to be a much tougher team in Miami has stayed path so what I feel will happen is that Miami will take a step back in the division and probably
    Finish and third position that doesn’t mean I hate my team it doesn’t mean I’m a Debbie downer it doesn’t mean I’m less of a fan than anyone else

    And it doesn’t mean what I say is going to happen these are just my opinions In my observations what is happening in the east
     
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's the exact mistake that has placed us in cap hell for the past 20 years- it's not a sustainable path and they're not interested in being a one-year wonder. This organization is all about great coaching and discipline with young talent...it's the only way to get sustainable results without huge turnover.

    I do agree with Lucky that our offense was lackluster and we need to see real improvement on that side of the ball. That will take place in the draft though as this team continues to grow.
     
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  11. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    I'll give you points for referencing "The Princess Bride", but you're still off the mark on everything related to Tua, and for the record I'm not 100% sold on him either but I am sold on there being a process that doesn't involve knee jerk reactions based on the ongoings of our rivals or other QBs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
  12. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I think that the offense AND the defense were lackluster, and the defenses stats were a bit of smoke and mirrors. Fingers crossed that they're able to continue to sort that out so that they can stop opponents without needing the big game changing play every quarter.
     
  13. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Chargers played almost everyone tough. Only lost by 3 to Chiefs and Saints.

    And because of their youth I wouldn't feel much different about them if they had won 7 or 8 games. That would still been looked at as really good progress.
     
  14. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Knowing we had the youngest team in the NFL and more year 1 contributors from last years draft class, I expect that to improve.

    Let’s not forget that last year was one year away from when they stripped this team to its foundation(tank for tua) and weren’t expected to win more than 1-2 games. When you do that, no one should be expecting the year 2 team to win 10 games. I went into last season thinking 7-8 wins would be a success.

    My point is he has exceeded my expectations in his first 2 years and now my expectations are to be in the playoffs.
     
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how it's possible to expect that level of defense every game- the turnovers and special teams scores just kept coming even though we gave up lots of yards. Heck, we had multiple turnovers on the 1 yard line by 4th down stops and fumbles/INTs....that's just a lot of really high effort plays. So I don't think we can expect that as a baseline.

    But if the defense continues to be stingy in the endzone and the offense can grow into average output, then I still see us as a 9-10 win team again next year. I don't buy into the "we won 10 and added four guys, so that equals 12+ wins" type of thinking. This year will definitely be a step back in some areas and we have to make up for that on offense. However, I don't think we've seen this team's maximum effort from individuals except for maybe Howard and Gisecki; I think everyone else still has room for growth and improvement.

    What's that mean? I don't know...it's football. Today I'd guess around 9 wins and going 4-2 or 3-3 in the division once again, losing both games to Buffalo and maybe one to NE. I'll have a different guess after the draft and again after training camp though. I think the system itself plays a huge factor and I believe we have that in our favor, so we'll see what happens.
     
  16. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    The defense isn't going to stop people every game of course. Teams with a great offense will be able to move the ball on almost anyone. But I think that its realistic for a team with a very good defense to expect that unit to function in 8-10 games without absolutely needing those game changing turnovers as a necessity to stopping someone.

    Stop the run, most of the time.
    Never, ever allow the opposing QB to run all over you on a consistent basis.
    Play tight coverage at corner, which we should be able to do better than anyone.
    And have a few guys on the front seven who can regularly provide pressure on the opposing QB.

    We aren't there yet. Fingers crossed that we get closer in the coming year. I think that our starters at LB and the interior DL should be fine, and we have a little depth in the secondary, but the pass rush is still probably lacking.
     
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  17. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    No, I am not off the mark for any of what I've said about Tua. You're simply in denial. Tua may be a good QB. A serviceable QB who can take our team to the playoffs. Much worse QBs than him have done that. That was not what we were looking for by investing the fifth overall pick in him. We were looking for the next Patrick Mahomes, someone who could come in and make an immediate difference. At the very peak of what we can expect from Tua, the best he could hope to be, he could someday be a Drew Brees. Now that sounds good...except for the fact that Drew Brees took eight years and two different teams to make it to a SB, and had to have just the right coach who understood what he needed to succeed to do it. And that's the BEST case scenario for Tua, to be that kind of QB.
     
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  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    And you got all that from watching Tua start a handful of games with a rookie offensive line and third string receivers? Well heck, we might as well find a new franchise to root for then...there's nothing left to be said on this matter.
     
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  19. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    The guy who is judging a rookie without proper perspective and then telling me I'm in denial is simply amazing.
     
  20. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    At the end of the season some of those recievers were 4th and 5th stringers, it's absolutely insanity to expect any rookie QB to overcome that especially one who was coming off a major injury and no preseason games.
     
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  21. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I wasn’t a fan of drafting Tua and completely agree with you. At this point we’re married to him for 1-2 more seasons, for better or worse. This season should be a lot more telling on how good he is or could be.
     
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  22. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Bringing up Brees pretty much exposes the ridiculousness of deciding what Tua is or isn't.
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The worst mistake we've made in the past two seasons was probably Rosen...who came from a horrible offense where he didn't really have a chance to find stability. We tried to start him, he got slaughtered while trying to gun-sling us into contention, and then we quickly moved on from him. THAT'S NOT the goal for Tua or any NFL QB, it's impossible to make a fair evaluation until the rest of the offense is competent. It all starts on that offensive line though and that's an area we're still growing into.
     
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  24. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    You're ridiculous. You disagree with my assessment of Tua? Fine. There's room for disagreement. To say it's impossible to assess a QB from playing as many games as he did in the NFL is just ludicrous. It's done constantly, and by people who are paid to do it.
     
  25. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    No, it doesn't. Brees is his ceiling. His floor is quite a bit lower. And you have no argument.
     
  26. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Everyone knows we're going to keep him one or two more years. That's clear now. The question is whether that was a good idea or not. No one is saying the Dolphins are going to move on from him this year, not after that trade.
     
  27. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Sorry, bub. You don't get to tell me what proper perspective is. I've been watching this team since the early 70s. I will decide what the proper perspective is for me.
     
  28. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    If you know football as you claim champ, then it shouldn't have to be explained to you.
     
  29. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'm disagreeing with your history of judging quickly and being dead wrong, sort of like this post from 2014-

    EVERY SINGLE THING you said in that post proved to be dead-wrong after RT's rookie season, so forgive me for not declaring Tua a bust right away.
     
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  30. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Look up the start of these Hall of Fame QB careers:

    Stabler
    Bradshaw
    Aikman
    Elway
    Manning
    All struggled at the onset of their careers and these are only a handful of the top of my head.

    I can do Non-Hall of Famers too who went on to win Super Bowls and were named to Pro Bowls and also struggled early if you like.
     
  31. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Everyone knew before they went in the draft that Elway and Manning were going to be great pro QBs. They struggled with INTs, but they never once gave anyone the impression they were lacking in arm strength or afraid to take chances. I don't know about Stabler or Bradshaw as rookies because I was too young to pay attention to anyone other than the Dolphins back then. Aikman...well, you take any halfway decent QB and surround him with that kind of talent, he's going to succeed.
     
  32. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Umm...dude, you did notice that Tannehill spent 7 years of mediocrity with this team and then went somewhere else, right? And that he only started to succeed when he was paired with basically a hall of fame RB?
     
  33. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    It doesn't need to be explained to me. You've simply arrogated yourself into the roll of thinking you have the capability of explaining it to me.
     
  34. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I want to draft all offence early in this draft and see if Tua is the QB of the future or not.
    I didnt want Tua and nothing I saw last year changed my mind.Give him weapons and have him prove he is the right choice so we know either way.
    That is fair as you can ask for.
     
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  35. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    And that's what we should do. If that's what we actually do, I will be surprised. I have a nasty feeling that the FO is going to think to itself "Oh, we signed a couple FA WRs, that should be enough." Then they'll draft a TE in the third round and maybe an OT in the fourth and the rest will be defense.
     
  36. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Wait....wat??? You're making no sense bro.
     
  37. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    My point flew over your head, the point wasn't a select few QBs but that the LARGE majority of QBs struggle in their rookie years, but you're set on being anti-Tua so you refuse to see reason.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
  38. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what the value is of continuing to debate what should or shouldn't have happened in the past. I think someone would have to be a complete idiot to not realize that Herbert was the better pick there. Continuing to argue that is pointless and redundant.

    The debate now is whether he can develop into a good enough player to be our franchise QB. And can he catch up to Herbert and Burrow.

    I wasn't happy with what I saw last year. People point to his W/L record which is more of a reflection of our defense and special teams than him. But at the same time, I'm willing to realize that we had one of the youngest OL's in the NFL, all of whom had never played together before. We fielded WR's that wouldn't make most teams. And he didn't have a full offseason.

    I'm willing to reserve judgement for one more year, in spite of my biases.
     
  39. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Wow Brees as a ceiling that sounds horrible

    Of course I know everyone on the internet is a genius at evaluating QBs but I don't see why are we supposed to judge Tua after half of a season with no preseason or traditional offeseason and with very limited talent when you recognize that a hall of famer like Brees who is one of the best to ever do it didn't just automatically reach his potential? Unless you think that is specific to Brees or someone like Brees that is hardly the case. Of course you need the right coaching and system and talent.

    Even Brady was a game manager at the start of his career.

    If you are going to declare Burrow top tier before actually doing anything and declare Baker to be top tier because...reasons? Then maybe we should actually wait to see what Tua can do with a offseason and while playing with a WR who could actually make the roster of a real offense.
     
  40. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    ***Just a friendly reminder to please keep things friendly. ***
     
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