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Noah Ig. also been getting some work in...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  2. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    If everyone can be patient with him, I think that he has a really high ceiling.
     
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  3. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    I hope so, he’ll have to earn every snap he gets.

    This team is so deep at corner. Needham was lights out in the slot the last 9 game or so.

    Add Coleman to the mix (brass obviously like him), who had decent slot numbers with the terrible Lions secondary.
     
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  4. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    The team will obviously be in the nickel a whole lot, and probably in the dime a good bit too, so he'll have plenty of chances to show he belongs. To me, ideally he replaced Needham by 2022, and then one of the expensive guys in 2023.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  5. FphinFantastic

    FphinFantastic Member

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    The direction this league is going I mean shoot out of the top 10 picks, probably 4 qb’s an OL or 2 3 receivers and maybe a cb or LB? Tells you a lot. We can’t have enough good corners.
     
  6. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I still think he ends up starting at safety for us. Not because he cant play CB or the slot, but because his skillset will make him a really amazing safety. His strength will match up well there and his athleticism will let him dominate over the top.
     
  7. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  8. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that his physical abilities are where his problems are.
     
  9. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    If there is some slight conjecture of a hint of a possible intercranial debility I would have to pass on that for the young man's sake, and hope that someone [if this is more than conjecture] might give the young man some sound advice on the subject? All the money in the world will not make up for a mind too debilitated to enjoy it!
     
  10. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah he was known for being a grabber in college. In the NFL that will be flagged often.
     
  11. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  12. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that's great and all, but even if Noah turns into a very good corner (big if), he was still not worth a first round pick. You don't draft raw developmental slot corners who are not ready to start or contribute right away in the first round. Noah was projected to be a 2nd to 4th rounder before the draft, and that is where he should have been drafted. It was a massive reach by Grier on a developmental player.
     
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  13. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    So in your world every 1st round pick should be a pro-bowler otherwise its was a reach. THAT is NOT what happens in drafts on any team. You're expectations aren't very realistic. But I guess that's what us fans are with the draft - a little unrealistic.
     
  14. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think he was saying that at all. We should definitely expect that a 1st round pick is a good starter that cracks the starting lineup within a couple years. If that’s not the case, they are developmental and should be taken later in the draft or the the GM reached for the pick.
     
  15. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Watching games on Saturday afternoons doesn't scratch the surface of what talent evaluators have to do to determine draft grades. The people who had that grade weren't the ones who invested money and time investigating him. When an internet draft pundit makes the effort to vet nearly every prospect with interviews, watching ALL of their game film, speaking at length with coaches, teammates, local law enforcement and more, I'll take their word for whether he was a 2nd-4th round talent on most teams' boards.

    There will undoubtedly be players who were drafted after him who have better careers. That's the nature of the game. But it's beyond presumptious for fans and writers to assume that their opinions and draft grades are better than those of entire staffs comprising people whose jobs depend on them getting it right.
     
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  16. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Way to put words in my mouth. I never said every first rounder has to be a pro bowler, but they should be a quality starter or major contributor right away.

    If you are only expecting them to develop into a starting caliber player 2-3 years down the line as seems to be the case with Iggy, then they should not be picked in the first round. Simple as that.
     
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  17. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah well, scouts and GMs regularly get it completely wrong no matter how many hours they spend on a player and how many millions the teams spends on scouting. Often overanalyzing a player or falling in love with one specific trait leads to drafting busts or overreaching on certain picks. Keeping the analysis simple and basic is often a better way to get it right most of the time. Iggy is a twitchy athlete and has a good attitude, but he is not very fast and has very raw technique. That combination should never equal a first round pick. The dolphins fell in love with his athleticism and personality, while ignoring his inexperience and lack of top end speed which should be a basic requirement for a quality NFL starting corner.

    It's the same thing that happened with Charles Harris for example. I and several YouTube draft analysts said Harris was a bust waiting to happen before the draft, yet the dolphins with all their scouting resources fell in love with his twitchy get off, good bend and nice spin move, while ignoring his lack of strength, speed and production.

    If NFL scouts and GMs didn't get it wrong so often, then you would be right to criticize fans and draftniks for thinking they know better, but the results show that most NFL scouting departments don't do any better of a job at evaluating players than weekend draftniks do.
     
  18. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I called the criticism presumptuous because there's no reason to believe that your opinion is better than the team's. We'll never know and that makes it fun to debate. But the sheer number of no-brainer perfect selections that we see turn into busts literally EVERY year is evidence that even consensus is oftimes wrong. I'd surmise that 90% of the reason why players sink or swim is based on the teams that select them and not on whether they are capable of contributing.

    You're entitled to your opinion and I'm certainly not saying that you're wrong to hold it. But I'm not the one to believe that I know more than you or people who are paid to gather information and make decisions that affect their careers.

    With that being said, some people are horrible at their job and over the past 20 years, the Dolphins have employed more than their fair share. Your skepticism is a Dolphins fan's birthright. But I understand the Igbinoghene selection even though it was a head scratcher for me at the time.

    There's a reason why redraft exercises are fun and that's because even the best GMs and scouting departments get it wrong. I respectfully submit that you and I wouldn't do much better, even with their resources.
     
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  19. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So if he was drafted 3 spots later it would have been fine and not a massive reach? Not sure why you think he is going to strictly be a slot corner. I think overloading on your pass defense, a statistic that directly correlates to wins more than a lot of other stats is a fine idea.
     
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  20. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    No, I personally would not have drafted Iggy until at least the 3rd or 4th round if at all, and I would have used his 1st round pick on Antoine Winfield Jr. who would have been an astronomically better addition to our secondary.

    And yes, Iggy will most likely have to stick to slot duties or move to safety, since he doesn't have the top end speed to play boundary in this league for any team that wants to play man coverage.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  21. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How fast do you think Xavien Howard is?
     
  22. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Xavian Howard ran 4.41 coming out of college, Noah's best time at his pro day was 4.47. Trust me that .06 seconds does make a difference when chasing down a speedy NFL reciever.

    Being able to run in the low 4.4s should be a minimum requirement for drafting a quality boundary corner.
     
  23. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Can you link me? I've seen mixed reports on his pro day 40 time.
     
  24. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    If you google it, it says his combine was 4.58 and his pro day was 4.44. Not sure why the discrepancy in times.
     
  25. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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  26. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can't find any corroboration of Chris Perkins' reported time of 4.41, just parroting from other reporters. It does seem like a crazy discrepancy from the combine measurement and I can't find any info about him not running at 100% for that either.

    Either way, if you watch his interview with Cris Collinsworth and Richard Sherman, Howard goes out of his way to explain how being a good press corner can cover a lot of what you lack in speed through technique off the LOS.

    4.48 is more than adequate. Iggy got bad calls in college like Howard got bad calls vs. DeAndre Hopkins in 2020.
     
  27. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    All reports of Howard's pro day say he ran low 4.41 - 4.44. His pro day was attended by all 32 teams, but you choose to ignore that because it doesn't fit your narrative.

    Richard Sherman gets away with being slow because he plays in the Seattle zone scheme, if ha had to play in a man heavy scheme he would not be anywhere near as successful. If you look at all the top CBs in modern NFL history, they have all been low 4.4 or faster. Out of the 22 starting positions in football, boundary cornerback is the position where speed is most important in order to be successful. If you are slow, then only the right scheme will help you against speedy NFL receivers. Pressing a guy at the line and holding is not going to cut it, eventually your receiver will get in stride and if you don't have good speed to keep up you are going to get torched often, which is exactly what happened to Noah last year.

    And no, Noah was not a victim of bad calls in college. If you watch film on him (which I don't think you have obviously) he actually got away with constant grabbing anytime a receiver started to pull away from him. He won't get away with that in the NFL.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  28. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why don't you take a chill pill? I asked a legitimate question and you somehow projected this weird "doesn't fit your narrative" attack on me. Still waiting for that link that says Xavien Howard ran the combine hurt.

    https://www.zybeksports.com/40-yard-dilemma-athletes-run-faster-pro-days-nfl-scouting-combine/

    I also said nothing about Richard Sherman's play as a cornerback. I said something about Xavien Howard being on Richard Sherman's and Cris Collingsworth's podcast, though, and discussing how he plays extremely fast receivers. It's not by matching them with speed either. I'm not saying being fast is inconsequential, but it's not the end-all, be-all. Iggy is plenty fast to play boundary corner in the NFL if he hones his press skills which he's absolutely built himself up to do.

    I've watched his college tape. You can't teach aggressiveness, the better option is to have a guy have it and try to reign it in from there when he gets to the NFL. He was also starting in his 2nd full year at the position on an SEC defense, for a program with a reputation of putting out really good defenses. They clearly saw something there.

    You built a soapbox industry on writing a whole player off based on the most volatile year of their professional football career. So brave. I'm sure you'll be back when he puts out a good year in the near future? Or will you have moved on to the next confirmation bias case at that point?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  29. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    If Iggy turns into a good boundary corner (not holding my breath) I will admit I was wrong. I have been wrong before (though not very often) and have admitted being so. I am not writing him completely off either, I still think he can develop into a pretty good slot corner, or safety. I just don't think he has what it takes to be a good boundary corner in the NFL.

    What I do know is that he should not have been picked in the first round and we passed on a lot better players to reach on a project slot corner.
     
  30. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's fair, man, you can like who ya like and whatever. I just wouldn't be throwing around too many absolutes after a player's rookie year and especially the way last year's offseason went.
     

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