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X Extension DONE!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    It's always interesting to me when loyalty gets brought up in these types of argument. It's almost always about a player's loyalty to a team/organization, but never vice versa.
     
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  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Can you explain how it's "loyal" to refuse to come to work?
     
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  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Well, yes. The team are paying the player to give them their best. The player commits to do his job.
    The team, however, is committed to all the other players, the fans, and the owner to win, and that might mean cutting or trading a good player, or a bad player, in order to manage cap or balance the team.

    Each team will have its own culture and some will be better than others. I would like to see the entire league improve in terms of openness and honesty. However, players will always be at a risk of being moved because of the cap. Ultimately, players should be aware their really employees of the league, not the individual teams.

    The player's job is to help the team win and the organisation grow. The GM's job is to acquire and move players to bring together the best team in a constantly changing environment. They're different.
     
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  4. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    I never said it was.
     
  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Completely the wrong way to look at this, for us and for Howard. There will always be someone else getting paid more, that sort of comparison is futile.
    Second, Jones was a free agent acquisition, you always overpay for those because of competition in the market, if teams have to think about other players getting upset then they'll never sign anyone talented. Do they check with players first? Give them all a boost so that the new free agent makes comparatively less? Impossible.
    Third, if one wants to get hardball about it, Jones has been a lot healthier than Howard. He could be seen as top tier insurance to be certain that they'll always have a top CB on the field.

    The bottom line is, no player should see a specific dollar figure as representative of their talent. It's too much a combination of market forces, cap space, etc. The Dolphins paid Howard as the best CB in the league. He was happy. Having to pay a lot to bring in Jones doesn't change any of that. Be happy. Play well. Enjoy your money.
     
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  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I disagree with everything you just said.
     
  7. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Not a Phins fan but he is certainly the best CB in the game right now. Even better than Jalen Ramsey
     
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  8. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    So you think players should always compare their earnings with everyone and be upset if they're not top dog (even if the other team is overpaying)?
    And/or that the Dolphins should check with players before they sign other players?
    And/or that Jones hasn't been healthier than Howard?
    And/or that Howard wasn't paid like the best CB in the league and he wasn't happy and that dollar figures aren't a combination of multiple factors and can't ever be representative talent?
     
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  9. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    We signed Kyle Van Noy to a four-year contract and cut him after a season. We signed Shaq Lawson and traded him after one year. Can you explain how it's "loyal" to jettison players that you signed as free agents before the ink dries on their contracts? If it's fair for one side, it's fair for the other.

    By the way: One of the things I like the most about this forum is the respect we have in our discussions. I've been on other sites where you can't have this discussion without two or more members devolving into launching personal attacks against each other. We're all entitled to our opinions and none of us is more right than another. I really appreciate dealing with adults.
     
  11. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Every situation is different...each player's level of skill is directly relevant. All the above signed the contract they signed, knowing damn well it was performance-based and at the team's discretion to a point. You can yell at the rules/norms all you want, but you knew them going in. He asked to be paid as the #1 CB, and the Dolphins paid him...only TWO years ago (1 year into the extension).

    If X is just looking for his money to be guaranteed, maybe some incentives for a little bump, I think that's fair. Availability is an important part of ability, he has missed a LOT of games.

    If he's looking for #1 CB money guaranteed, I'd be fine with him sitting or getting a trade.
     
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  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Yes.
    I think Dolphins should know that players are human.
    Don't care
    Doesn't matter.
     
  13. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    IMO, he's not bucking any rules or norms; he's exercising his rights under the terms of his deal. He'll be fined in accordance with the language of the CBA. You are aware that he's not "breaking his contract", right? There are provisions that protect the team in this situation and he's willing to accept the consequences of his actions. He'd be breaking his deal if he fed intel to an opponent or ran the wrong way on an INT. It's up to the Dolphins if they want to handle this situation to either side's satisfaction. They can sit or trade him at any time and that's the whole point.

    Players have finally awakened to the realization that the only loyalty in the NFL exists between fans toward their teams. Teams screw fans and players alike. Yes, I know that it's hard to be "screwed" when you're on a deal that pays millions per year. But if Howard slips on a patch of ice tomorrow and sustains a concussion that puts his season and his career in doubt, he'll be waived on Saturday morning. That's not loyalty.
     
  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Truth. Players should do everything in their power to maximize the amount of money they can make in a short amount of time.
     
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  15. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Never said he's breaking his contract, and he IS bucking norms. When has a player came back, after one year of an extension that made him the highest paid CB in the league at the time, held out for a new contract?

    And as for the injury possibility, I'm fine with more guaranteed money, that's fair...if that's the whole argument, get it done Miami. I just can't see Grier letting this fester for something that simple, and if he is, I'm behind X.

    I bet money the word "loyalty" isn't anywhere in the contract. Its not owed. The league, above all else, is about production. If you can't be relied upon to produce at a level consistent with your salary, why would a business give you a raise (keeping in mind, he's only 1/4th of the way through his TOP PAID CB extension he signed)? He's been paid what he agreed to, and hasn't outplayed it, especially considering the team got zero production out of him for 11 games in 2019. He had a great 2020. Players have standout years all the time, doesn't guarantee anything going forward.

    I DO agree NFL contracts are slanted too much for the organizations and not enough toward the players. Not my argument. I was hoping the players would strike last CBA, but they didn't.
     
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  16. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    What happened to that guy that got in an accident and lost his arm? Did he even play a game for Miami, and how did the Dolphins treat him?
     
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  17. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    I believe you.

    Can you guess why I believe you? - LOL
     
  18. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    True, that is availability.

    Once a long time ago in an other place there was a man who was hurt in a motorcycle accident. This limited his availability to go to at work. The employer liked their worker, and paid him more money then most people see in a lifetime of work. The employer told their worker that his unnecessary risk taking outside of work was jeopardizing his position with them. They solved the problem by establishing a new contract that would, among other things, keep the worker from riding on a motorcycle. Both parties agreed to the terms of the contract.

    Do you know who I am talking about? I'll give you a big hint.

    He has been the QB in Pittsburgh for a long time.
     
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  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Because you are the type of person who ends sentences with "LOL"?
     
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  20. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Julio Jones used the same leverage to get a new deal with Atlanta. As soon as his guaranteed money dried up, he held out. Players will be doing this more and more. They're essentially playing chicken with the team to see how much the team actually values them.

    As I stated, I typically side with the players as a matter of principle. But another reason why I'm okay with them maximizing their loot is because teams are quick to franchise players when it comes to contract disputes. Washington franchised Kirk Cousins twice. I'd bet they couldn't have done that had Tom Terrific not taken hometown discounts with the Patsies. His team loyalty gave more leverage to management. Good for his teammates; bad for his union. The only way I'd ever take team-friendly deal is if the team gave me some say over how they spent the money that I left on the table.
     
  21. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    In your case it's out of politeness. - LOL
     
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  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I wondered that myself- I'm positive he never played a down in a game, I'm thinking it happened before we even hit training camp. I have a feeling that he didn't get anything.
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't know- Manning had what was thought to be a career-ending injury and the Colts offered to pay him the rest of his contract anyway; I believe they even offered him a long-term contract for a few million per year to stay retired. A lot of stars have walked away and still got paid, but then you also have folks like Ricky who got sued for back-pay as well. I think it really depends on the organization and the particular player.

    In Howard's case, he's still in his prime coming off a career season, so it's tough to say what Miami might do. But him sitting out of training camp makes me think they would cut ties in the event of an off-field injury instead of supporting him.
     
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  24. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    If you want to believe that, you may.
     
  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Detroit treated Calvin Johnson as if he spit in their soup on the way out of the building. You're right to say that it depends on the player and team. This will get resolved but you can bet the mortgage that sans career-ending injury, X will not retire as a Dolphin.
     
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  26. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Pretty sure his entire salary was covered by the Dolphins, at least for that year.

    Edit: along with covering all of his medical expenses, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
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  27. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Of Course I Will - LOL
     
  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    My thing is, you signed a contract. Play it out.
     
  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    My thing is, make the most money you can off of billionaires and give them no loyalty because they have none of that for you.
     
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  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    He's under contract to play football. If he sits out, I don't see how that isn't breaking the contract.
     
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  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, **** being honest and a man of your word.

    I'll not respond further to you on this, we will never agree.
     
  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    [​IMG]

    My literal reaction. OH yea, be a man to your word to the NFL, see what gets you.

    It is only being honest and a "man" if the other person is also being fair.

    You are just advocating people being a fool.
     
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  33. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    1000%

    But when they sign that contract, honor the terms of it. Make the best deal you can, keep your word. Demand the other party in the contract does the same or suffer the consequences spelled out in the mutually agreed upon legally binding contract.

    All I'm sayin
     
  34. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    But that's what contracts are. The literal definition of fair. Without a contract between us, barring a social contract, but individual contracts include and often override social contracts. Fair is a purely subjective mostly selfish definition of life. A contract is a legally defined document of what is "fair" between two or more parties agreeing to said contract.
    Either side violating terms of mutually agreed upon contract triggers mutually agreed upon consequences just like adhering to terms of contract triggers mutually agreed upon rewards.
    Loyalty doesn't mean ish to anybody on either side after the contract is signed. Get over it.
     
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  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Yea, no. Contracts can always be renegotiated. No good businessman would have this attitude. They would laugh at you.
     
  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    In business, respect is the ONLY THING you have. I don't think anyone here is saying not to renegotiate- they're saying to do it with tact and mutual respect. Because once you draw a line in the sand, you quickly become expendable.
     
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  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    A businessman who does not honor his contract, that he willingly signed, is, imo, not a good man.

    Good is not defined by how much money you have. Many of the "best" businessmen are complete scumbags. Sign one year contracts if you want to try to squeeze as much out of the company every year as you can. Don't sign a multi-year deal, then try to up it two years in. Scummy.

    Congrats, you got me to respond again.
     
  38. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    That's the attitude that lets folks in Russia and China become "billionaires".

    Just ask Putin - LOL
     
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  39. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    You guys are completely ignoring the cap implications. The Dolphins are trying to build a whole team and it's tricky enough as it is. Once a contract is in place the team will need to manoeuvre around it. If players keep changing their minds they risk damaging the team building.

    This isn't about a billionaire being able to spend freely.

    The time to get your money is during negotiations. Get it done, then honour that fo the good of the team.
     
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  40. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    So how did Xavier actually crossed the line?

    If he wants more money than I see no wrongs with that. He deserved it. If he had a pathetic showing than he had no business asking for it.
     
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