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X Extension DONE!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Im pretty sure theres atleast two or three players that could be cut or take a pay cut to make the STAR of the team happy....
     
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  2. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    NFL contracts are never guaranteed. So who gives a rats *** about LOYALTY?

    NFL by far has the worse contracts. They should take a page out of MLB & NBA.
     
  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I didn't say anything about guaranteed. People have no honor...they don't abide by their word.

    Nor did I say loyalty. I don't expect players to be "loyal" to the team. I expect that people will be loyal to themselves, and will do what they agree to do, for the price they agreed to do it for.

    Your word and reputation are worth far more than money.
     
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  4. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Defensive coordinators have X on their radars now. They won't be throwing his way as much this upcoming season. No way he repeats 10 INTs. He's not going to give any money back if he doesn't repeat last season's production and, he won't be worth what he is now in a trade. I would either negotiate an incentives only addition to his existing contract or look for a Tunsil type trade while his stock is high. If he doesn't want to be part of the Dolphins, replace him with somebody that does.
     
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  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Take your meds
     
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  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is just fans being selfish.
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is a childish viewpoint that does not represent real life.
    This isn't a video game.

    Nothing scummy about trying to get a better deal.

    That is like saying people who transfer their loan to a new financial institution for a better interest rate are scummy
     
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  8. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    I have no idea where he is going with this conversation, lol.......

    Apparently a guy thats asking for more because rightfully so he is deserving MORE is a scummy person in someone elses eyes. Oh well, who knew!
     
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  9. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    The contract says that if you don't work, you won't get paid. Not working isn't breaking the contract, it's accepting the consequences laid out in it for not participating in accordance with expectations. The deal has provisions for missing practices, minicamps, and games. There's a cost for holding out and he's willing to pay it. If he broke the contract, the team could cut him and recoup a significant amount of his signing bonus.

    As long as he pays his fines, he's within the provisions of the contract. He can only break the deal by engaging in activities deemed to be detrimental to the team or partaking in activities specifically banned like motorcycling, skydiving, parkour, etc.
     
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  10. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Did the Dolphins honor their 4-year contract with Kyle Van Noy?

    Asking for a friend...:001_rolleyes:
     
  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Does the team being scumbags excuse the players doing it? Because someone else is dishonest, you should be dishonest?

    If a player doesn't play up to the essay l expectations that the contract is based on, should the team be allowed to cut their pay instead of straight cutting then from the team?

    I mean, all I'm saying is, for EITHER SIDE, when you sign a contract, it should be binding, and neither party should break the contract.

    I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept.
     
  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah great. This is the problem. If you sit out because you're dissatisfied with your pay, you are hurting the team, and screwing your teammates, both in affecting their chances of winning, and potentially (realistically, most likely) hurting their paychecks.

    I was saying, as far as I'm concerned, they're under contract to play football. That was why the team hired them. Sitting out should violate contracts.
     
  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    If you hire a carpenter to build a house...and three months in, he decides he's a better carpenter than he thought, and he decides he wants a 30% increase, you'd be OK with him just ceasing work until you acquiesce to his demands?

    No, you would probably say he's a scumbag.
     
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  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's childish to expect people to honor their word? It's childish to expect people to follow what they freely agreed to?

    If X wanted MORE money, then he should have held out until he had more in that last contract.
     
  15. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    "Honor their word"? Seriously?
    https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/sports/dolphins-cut-mccain-to-make-room-for-rookie/2445116/
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...-dolphins-cut-veteran-linebacker-kyle-van-noy
    https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2...haq-lawson-to-texans-for-benardrick-mckinney/
     
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  16. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    You think owners care? This applies to the front office more than to the players...
     
  17. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    This logic doesnt apply here, sorry. He did complete his season in....
     
  18. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    The NFL is the perfect example of what people mean when they say that it "Ain't no fun when the rabbit's got the gun".
     
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  19. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    What?

    Can you please clarify, or at least expand your response?

    How are considering cap implications and considering the overall benefit of the team a matter of fans being selfish?
     
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  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't know your background, but I've owned multiple businesses in my life- one of which had me working directly with multiple Fortune 100 clients. In many cases, I was probably justified in billing them more and I could have brought it up, but the reason they worked with me so much is because when I said I'd do something, it was done every single time the right way.

    Plus, I was billing some of these clients $100k+ a year...I'd be a fool to potentially lose a major client because suddenly I want $120k instead. That is not how business is done except in the world of sales, and in that world it's often a one-time sale and you can care less about the relationship.

    To each his own, but I always valued relationships and being trusted over money. By doing that, I was wildly successful and have a reputation that sells itself.
     
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  21. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Are you referring to Chinese medications or Covis 19
     
  22. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Do you see yourself as the player or the team in this scenario?
     
  23. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I don't know if y'all saw it, but X was on a Man-to-Man Podcast a while back, where he said he was going to "make the Dolphins pay" for paying Byron and drafting Iggy...far as I'm concerned, trade him, or let him sit and pay fines. Don't care if he plays another down for the Dolphins.
     
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  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The contract wasn't for one year. It's a valid comparison, even though you don't want it to be, because you know for a fact you would never hire a contractor who had done such a thing.
     
  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. He said that (31:00) but that doesn't change anything for me. Julio Jones did the exact same thing to the Falcons. Does that mean you wouldn't have traded a second and a fifth for him? Too many people are caught up in their feels over "loyalty" and motivations.
     
  26. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Not a thing to do with loyalty...its to do with intentionally pulling some BS solely due to overinflated (and unearned) ego. He should go around to his teammates and ask them to take a pay cut so he can have more than he's already signed for. Julio's situation was different...he wanted out of Atlanta period, and made it well known...from what I can tell, he has the same contract, just on another team.

    He's pissy over the team drafting a CB in the first round...hello?...his availability shows this to be a prudent move for the team...particularly for a defense that loves stacking up its secondary.

    He has absolutely ZERO leverage to pull this crap...he knows he dodged a bullet last year with injuries/missing games (he's already missed 25 games), and wants to get paid-in-full, years into the future, when he's almost at that age where he'll start falling off. He's one play away from a knee going, per his history. He should be ecstatic he has the contract he has, which is plenty to set his entire future up, as well as his family. If his demands are simply more guaranteed money for his current contract, then that's one thing, but he obviously wants to be paid way more. Since he's taking this tact, it wouldn't bother me one iota to see him take up a roster spot on his couch, not getting paid, paying back signing bonuses and pissing away guaranteed salary for 2021.

    Good luck...at most, I hope some other team will screw their cap over and hook him up. I generally give zero damns what these guys make. I was happy for him when he got this current contract. He's gone over the top. Rumor has it Dallas and LV have made offers for him...I hope they trade him and at least recoup some value.
     
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  27. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why are some some of us pretending that playing in the NFL is at all like the normal business world? This is so odd. There is a draft, a salary cap, a salary floor, employees are traded, competitors have revenue sharing etc...

    The concept that players have to honor NFL contracts as a moral imperative, but teams don't, is also very strange to me.
     
  28. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  29. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Both sides have to honor the contract.

    I would like to see one of those contracts to see what they say as opposed to presumption. What I do know is that both parties sign the contract.

    I don't trust that a guy like Omar would provide an accurate summary even if he did have access to one!
     
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  30. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Okay, if we are going to be pedantic about it, then why are you holding the player to terms you won't hold the team to? The contract establishes pay for the players play and gives the team the exclusive rights for that play. The CBA and the contract establish penalties and bonuses for either participating or not. X is well within his rights under the terms of the contract and the CBA to choose to pay the penalties instead of participating. He is not legally or contractually obligated to play. If he choses to no longer play, all the team is owed is a portion of the signing bonus back. See Ricky Williams, Barry Sanders, etc... The player just cannot play for a different NFL team. If you are fine with the team cutting players because of the "terms" of the contract, then it is hypocritical to criticize the player for doing their version of that.
     
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  31. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Because the contracts give each party specific rights and obligations. Those rights and obligations are not always the same. Either party has the right to refuse to sign the contact. Once it is signed, the parties are expected to live up to to their contractual obligations. There are often "escape" clauses in a contract.

    I would like to see one of the actual signed contracts to be sure I know what the two parties have agreed to.
     
  32. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    There is a Sports Illustrated 2-part article on NFL contracts that you might find enlightening.

    Let me know what you think about it.
     
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't really comparing it that way, but probably more as the player. People think that when you're self-employed or start a company that makes you "the boss" and you don't have to answer to anyone, but you're always working with others regardless.
     
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  34. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A quick Google of si and nfl contracts shows you are going to have to be way more specific.
     
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  35. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    The Art of NFL Contracts Part 1: The Basics

    There are at least a part 2 and a part 3
    Part 2 is "The Examples"
     
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  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Who is saying that teams shouldn't? In THIS situation, we are talking about a player who is holding out. Lol

    My argument is not dependent on position or status in life, or anything. When you give your word on something, you follow through. It's called being honest and truthful.

    Kind disturbing that there's this much push back against the idea that we should do what we say will do.
     
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  37. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    What's kind of disturbing is that there wasn't this much debate when we cut Van Noy and Bobby McCain. And I'm pretty sure none of the people who are suggesting that Howard is somehow "dishonest" used that word when it came to releasing Van Noy. Was the team truthful and loyal to him?

    This isn't about truth, loyalty or honesty. Nobody who ever got cut believed that the team was truthful, loyal or honest with him and ultimately, it doesn't matter. The only value at play here is the right to control your financial future. And that applies to the team as well as to the player.
     
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  38. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    The team will need to cut and move and trade players. It's part of the league. They HAVE to do it. Players need to understand and accept that. Players will never and can never be in total control of where they play and for how long. It's literally impossible. Teams will make offers, deals, moves because the league set up requires them to do it. So the idea that a player who receives a 5 year contract should expect to always play out those five years is utter nonsense, as is the idea that such moves are, in themselves, disloyal.

    It's one thing if a GM speaks with a player personally, tells him he's not going to be moved, and then moves him without reason - that's just horrible, disrespectful, and there's no reason for it, it needs to stop. But if a team is upfront about things, there's no disloyalty there. At all.

    Teams are committed to team building and pursuing wins, not making life comfortable for individual players. Players are, or should be, committed to doing the job they were hired to do. That's the nature of the job. Teams come first, players second, as a direct result of how the league is constructed. Teams need to constantly re-evaluate things, move players around etc.

    It's been said before and apparently it needs saying again, players need to understand that they are really employees of the league. They should expect to move.

    Like members of the military or highly specific skilled employees in a big company, they are pieces who are going to be moved around. Their contracts will offer some guaranteed money, that is their guarantee, that's what they're going to definitely get. Breaking that agreement would be being disloyal. Lying to the player would be being disloyal. But moving on from a player otherwise, that's not disloyal. It's how the league is designed to work.
     
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  39. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    And they get paid more then most will ever make again in their lives for a few years of playing sports.

    I understand they are eligible for the NFL's (not the teams) retirement program after 4 years in the League. There is a reason draftees are on stage with a representative of the NFL right after they are drafted. That should be a big hint in telling you how things are and who is in charge.
     
  40. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ok I read the first one. I had never heard of a the quality of play guarantee. That was interesting.

    **edit** thinking about it, why would anyone use a play only guarantee? If you are going to guarantee that, why wouldn't injury be add too? Just fully guarantee it. Those instances must be rare.

    Regardless, I didn't see where it was germane to my point? I didn't see anything about the player being compelled to play. Maybe I missed it?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
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