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X Extension DONE!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    X's opinion doesn't matter?

    BS Situation?
     
  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree. At the end of the day, we want this to all work out but we'll accept however it plays out. To me, it's not Team Howard or Team Grier...it's team Dolphins and what's best for the organization. I honestly don't think we have enough information as fans to even have an opinion, we have zero idea what's happening behind the scenes, who's being unreasonable, who's stalling, etc.
     
  3. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    and to quote one of the great legal minds* of the 20th Century “And I am that fool”.

    [* I can’t recall if it was Gomez Addams or Groucho .Marx]
     
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  4. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    They understand. But from their perspective, players should be just as invested in the good of the team as fans are. They don't understand the grind it takes and the behind-the-scenes machinations that take place on a weekly basis in every football franchise. Players know that one bad play can result in being benched or cut but some fans either don't know or don't care. As a matter of fact, the same fans who polished X's cup after each of his interceptions are waiting to unmercifully boo him the next time an opposing receiver scores on him.

    That's one of the burdens that players carry. The same fans that they claim to "love" will be over the moon when that player is traded for a better player or forced to renegotiate for more cap space. In the end, it's a dog-eat-dog world and players have to look out for themselves because fans root for the uniform, not the guy wearing it.
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if that describes the average fan or not- I still root for most ex-Dolphins (RT, Miller, Vernon, Damien Williams, both Fitzpatrick, Tunsil, Matt Moore, Henne, etc...basically everyone but Ajayi). I turned on Ajayi though because he wasn't a team player, and I guess some would make that case for X since he's holding out. But in my mind, if they get Howard re-signed then he'd instantly be a team player again.

    I think it's more complicated than you're giving it credit for.
     
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  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  7. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Of course, it is. I sometimes speak in broad generalities and I did it once again here. I shouldn't have made it seem as if I was speaking for all fans. But there are definitely some who believe that players should be willing to take multiple bullets for their teams and that's an unfair expectation, IMO.

    I know that I used to have complaints about my job and when those complaints made me miserable, I moved on to a place that I thought would treat me fairly. It didn't mean that I gave less than 100% to the job or didn't thank God for every day that I had a job. I think players maintain a similar perspective and realize that they have to put their interests ahead of the team's because the team will absolutely put its interests first.

    So, I'm cool with players upsetting the apple cart from time to time. They're only going to get one bite at that apple. I just think that most fans want as much certainty about what comes next as they can get. I do too, but I just don't think it's realistic to believe there won't be hurdles and hiccups to overcome.
     
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  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    My problem is, the scenario you lay out, it's like the Dolphins never gave X that bite of the apple.

    They did. He got everything he wanted.

    Now he wants another bite.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  9. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Talk about deliberately stirring the pit to create dissatisfaction in order to create a story.
     
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  10. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    LOL. Spin 'em up. "Average guaranteed salary" in a league that doesn't have to guarantee salary. I wonder how he ranks on the "Annual Hangnails Suffered" list...just as irrelevant.

    His contract was for 5 years / $75.25 million, $39,260,641 guaranteed. For the kids in the back, that means his contract has an annual guaranteed salary of $7,852,128 and 20 cents...in a VERY fluid market where rankings are constantly in flux because of said market.

    Try again...

    AND! For good measure, his current contract is ranked SIXTH in guaranteed money for CBs (Byron's is 4th)...

    Save it.

    (Not directed at you Galant)
     
  11. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Everybody understands it...some of us just don't agree with it under certain conditions, and agree with it under others. If he put up a great 2021 without missing significant time due to injury, pay the man again, though not for 5 years. At least he'd be over halfway through his contract at that point. I'd say pay him somewhere in the neighborhood of top 3 CB money over 3 years, half guaranteed.

    To me, to view this as simply as possible, it's about leverage...of which X has near zero on the Dolphins organization. What little leverage he does have is toward a trade, and if that's his true goal (very well could be, based on stuff he's said over the years, publicly), then I guess he has a decent bit of leverage. The organization holds all the cards...wouldn't bother me one bit if the team took the hard stance, kept him on the team, and forced him to either sit or play. What's he going to do? Sandbag 2021? How many teams would line up to pay him big bucks after this season if he did that? Will he sit and give away tons of non-state-taxed money? Those are the only 2 options as far as I'm concerned...but we'll see who blinks. There's a strong possibility he's pinned himself into a losing (financially) situation.

    If he manages to get traded and paid big, then congrats and good riddance.
     
    resnor likes this.
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It's funny you mentioned that- we heard that multiple players wanted out after the Flores/Grier rebuild phase but Fitzpatrick was the only one who went public. What if X has been trying to get out the whole time? We have no way of knowing but that's certainly a solid theory.

    Personally, I think it angered him when we paid/traded for Jones and that's where all this is coming from. Clearly he had the better 2020, so X is thinking, "Why shouldn't I be the highest paid? They owe me..."
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Because his contract doesn't have a stipulation that he will always be the highest paid. It's sort of understood that today's highest paid will be next year's not highest paid.
     
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  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    He wouldn't be holding out if they did.
     
  15. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!
    LMAO! Thank God they aren't that dumb.
     
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  16. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I disagree. In this situation it would have been smart.
     
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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Then DON'T TRY FOR A MULTI-YEAR DEAL. If you want to be the highest paid every year, then sign one year contracts every year.

    But there's a reason no player wants to do that.
     
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  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Of course...that's completely logical. But in X's shoes, he's probably not seeing it that way. That's all I meant. =)
     
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  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Then the team shouldn't try to sign for a multi year deal and only do one year contracts.
     
  20. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, give them everything they want.
    Great business model.:chuckle:
     
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  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    oh yea, terrible to pay the best player on the team and one of the best players in the league their worth.

    :death:
     
  22. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Ok. It seems to me the Dolphins kind of created this problem by signing a lesser corner to a bigger deal than his. Jones is a good corner but I saw nothing that makes me think he deserves as much, let alone more than X. So I get where he is coming from, but, he has unfortunate timing. This years cap is much lower than it will be next season and I don't think we have a ton of money to get a whole lot done.

    All that said this starts to stink like Darryl Revis. if he is going to pull this kind of thing like Revis did all the time, or we cant get anything done I think we should trade him and get what we can. He is worth a 1st and maybe an additional late round pick. I love X, one of my favorites on the team but if its going to be like this I wont have a problem with a trade for proper value.
     
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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That doesn't make any sense. If X wanted to always be the highest paid, then he should never sign a multi-year deal.

    The reason no player will do one year deals is because of they get hurt, or their play falls off, then they won't get as much money. So, players sign multi-year deals and try to maximize guaranteed upfront money, as protection against injury or lackluster play.
     
  24. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It makes plenty of sense.

    Contracts are not one sided.
     
  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I support X's holdout, but I do that for all players. But the Dolphins did nothing wrong in this situation. In fact, they did everything right. They set his contract up so that we can get out from underneath it after three years and then drafted his replacement in addition to signing a free agent CB1. X sees the handwriting on the wall and it's showing him he won't be here past 2021. He's also much less likely to have another season like he had last year, so his value is going to likely take a hit due to regression toward the norm or health concerns. I'm pretty sure that in all of my posting in this thread, I never cast the team in a negative light. Or at least, I didn't mean to.

    The Phins have handled his situation perfectly, which is why I'm 100% sure he's either coming to camp in two weeks or being traded. They'd be foolish to leverage the salary cap when everything they've done to mitigate his departure appears to have worked in their favor. X wants another bite of the apple, which I can appreciate. It doesn't mean that I'd give it to him if I was Grier & Co.
     
  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    If. X. Wanted. To. Be. The. Highest. Paid. CB. Every. Year. He. Shouldn't. Have. Signed. A. Multi-year. Contract.

    It's just that simple man. As soon as X signed that massive contract, HE guaranteed that he would no longer be the highest paid CB in a season or two.

    I get being pissed about the Jones thing, I really do. But that's how it goes when you set the pay scale for CBs with your contract.
     
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  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Sorry dude, I do not agree with your take. might as well agree to disagree.
     
  28. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    There's not agreeing with a take, then there's disregarding hard fact. Totally different.
     
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  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Agreed. So many people are ignoring X's position and acting like contracts are only one-sided. Like he signed that contract in a vacuum and nothing happened since then.
     
  30. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Because he is not worth it in the eyes of the FO.

    Any questions, and please note that complaints, disagreements and whines aren't questions; only questions are questions.
     
  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    X signed a contract and he has to honor it, sit out or retire. That's about as one-sided as it gets; he holds zero leverage.

    Miami is not required to re-write a contract just because he had a great year. I understand that many of us would like to see him paid and for this dispute to end, but the ONLY FACT here is that the Dolphins don't have to. At the end of all this, Howard will likely play out this season on his current contract. Doing anything else is career suicide and there would be zero interest in him next year from a trade perspective. Nobody is going to make him the top paid defender in football (again) after getting a huge contract and then sitting out.

    So he can "blow it all up" waiting for an extra few million per year (all the while losing $15+ million), or he can play football and show why he deserves a raise....possibly getting it from Miami or a different team next season.

    I'm sorry, but this is entirely one-sided.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    you are just saying stuff I am not saying.

    It is not entirely one-sided. That is just wrong.
     
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  33. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    He can also sit out until December and get a credited season while killing the team's flexibility to make salary moves. Then, he'd undoubtedly be out of condition in the most important stretch of games and cause more problems than he's worth. That's why we're going to trade him in the next month.
     
  34. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    I think he would be required to pass a physical.

    How do you think he would do on that physical? Pass, fail, or be required spend more time to meet physical training requirements due to being of shape? What if his evaluation isn't processed until January?

    What happens if he tries to come back and the team refuses him entrance until after their last game. I suspect he would need to make an appointment, and that would be at the teams pleasure, not his.

    I anticipate that we will make the playoffs and the team will be at a peak of interneral activity. We could be too busy to check out a returning player who had not showed up for training camp.

    Maybe he could write a book while he is holding out. It's title could be "How to Stick Up Your Nose at $15,000,000 While Losing Money In Fines Just To Show The World How Stupid You Really Are".

    Too many words? It's hard to cover that level of stupidity with fewer words - LOL

    Maybe he will eventually show up and all this will be irrelevant. At least it gives us something to argue about (as if we really needed that - LOL) while waiting for training camp to start so that we can have something factual to argue about.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
  35. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The problem with that is finding a trade partner that will be able to give him a new contract now, plus pay the equivalent of at least a 1st rounder and a starter. That won't be easy and I am positive that Grier won't just dump him without receiving value.

    There is obvious interest to sign him from several ball clubs, but I'm not sure if the math will work out on both sides.
     
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  36. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    There is undoubtedly language in the CBA that requires the team to either administer a physical to him when he shows up. If he passes the physical, the team can activate him. If he fails, he can be put on the PUP or released. He'll get his year of credited service, the team will be able to count the year toward his contract and both sides can move forward with a clearer position. At that point, the team might as well add him to the PUP because I'm convinced we're cutting or trading him at the end of the season if he's not traded soon.

    But the team won't have the option of dragging things out just to stick it to him. The only thing that would accomplish would be to keep him around for another season when it's clear that neither he nor the team wants him.
     
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  37. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    This is true. I contend that he wants some of the last three seasons guaranteed and that's the basis of his holdout. We can cut him at the end of the season with minimal cap impact and there's little reason to believe that we're going to break the bank for him since we drafted and are developing his replacement. If X has a great season, he's going to make a lot of money next year from someone else. If he regresses toward the mean or suffers an injury, he's going to earn far less than the ~$12 million he's supposed to get for the next three seasons. I understand his play for a new deal because it's now or never.

    With that being said, the FO has set itself up nicely to move on from a lopsided financial situation with the secondary. If I was Grier, there's no way I'm offering him a huge deal while knowing that the last couple of seasons are going to be overpaying him. I can see a trade suitor signing him with a new deal with the money they'll get from next year's bump in the salary cap. I think the only issue with a trade is agreeing on the compensation.
     
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  38. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the detailed information.

    I still wish they could delay it so he would collect nothing, but "beggars can't be choosers" - LOL
     
  39. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I like X. But just like with Fitzpatrick, if he doesn't want to be here, I prefer we get the best trade package and make him happy. He had a great season last year that I don't think he'll repeat. I hope he gets what he wants in Miami or somewhere else. With that being said, I have no doubt we will do fine without him this season or the next.
     
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  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he'll repeat either....but the last time he was healthy for a season, he pretty much did the same thing. I really do think he's that darn good where 10 is almost a baseline for him while he's in his prime.
     
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