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Dolphins get over the 85% goal

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finatik, Jul 9, 2021.

  1. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I see you on the opiate crisis but at the same time, a vaccine is not a highly addictive pain drug.
     
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  2. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Got to love how vaccines are now being equated with being woke

    We really are doomed
     
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  3. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    The people pushing it have a track record of pushing dangerous medication and being litigated successfully against. This time they are not able to be litigated against but we are supposed to just trust them? Even though no mrna vax has ever passed phase 3 which is the phase in which most drugs fail for safety?

    They are immune from being sued so what do they have to lose? They have been trying to pass this technology through but have not been able to up until now under emergency use.

    Spike proteins are dangerous whether introduced voluntarily or involuntarily. I'll wait for the Phase 3 trials to be complete to draw full conclusions (that's you people who have taken the vax).
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
    resnor likes this.
  4. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Yes we are doomed because people like you are demanding 100% of people shoot themselves full of non FDA approved goo even though it looks like it isn't any more effective at saving your life than having a healthy immune system.

    Maybe the people who ate McDonald's for lunch every day are the ones jamming up hospitals. It's unhealthy Americans and the elderly. Stop making this like it is the bubonic plague. US population grew by 0.58% within .02% of the previous 2 years. No one now dies from influenza.

    Still hysteria being stoked for no reason. The hospitals are not overrun. There are no drug shortages related to covid.

    People are cheering on the largest transfer of wealth in history. Yay Amazon! Let's shut it down again and completely destroy our economy completely!

    Enjoy your shelter life.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
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  5. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Have to lol even more at someone suggesting the CDC "uses zero data". That's like saying there's a snowman on the surface of the sun.

    Dude, don't let a mistrust of government extend to every government agency. The CDC is one of the most credible institutions out there.

    Which means nothing. Have to look at overall statistics, you know.. "data", the kind people at the CDC actually look at. Stuff you've never directly seen with this disease — you're only getting second-hand reports while they look at the actual reports.

    Most "drugs" yes, not most "vaccines". Vaccines generally don't fail in phase 3 for safety reasons because, as I pointed out, historically almost all serious side effects of vaccines appear within a few months of injection. You don't inject vaccines regularly like medication, which is why long-term effects of vaccines occur within at most within a few months of injection, at least when you look at historical "data" on vaccines, you know.. the kind you haven't looked at.

    Note of course that vaccines can fail in phase 3 if results are inconsistent, inconclusive, etc., or evidence shows they actually don't work well. But not because of long-term health effects.
     
  6. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    They want vaxxed fighting the unvaxxed. If it takes creating a literal apartheid between the vaxxed and unvaxxed to get an extra 1% of the population hooked on Big Pharma's vaxx, they'll do it because that amounts to millions more vaccine sales every year which will get reinvested into the government (through kickbacks, lobbying, and insider trading from all the multimillionaires in Congress) as well as in other big economic players through the money the hedge funds are making off of Pharma stock.

    They have their attack dogs (the Covidians) ready to persecute people and businesses who don't fall in line with their schemes. And they want those attack dogs to be as vicious and awful as they can be, that's why I'm noticing a lot of propaganda recently blaming the unvaxxed for why you still have to wear a mask and why all of these venues are closed and restricted (i.e. **** like "you can't see a concert because people aren't getting vaccinated!") and accusing the unvaxxed of causing more lockdowns. Anyone who studies history knows this is exactly what communists did against "counter-revolutionaries" and the Nazis did against the Jews, that is, blaming them for the reason they aren't getting what was promised, and this resulted in all sorts of state-sponsored extrajudicial murder, arson, and violence against the targeted groups as well as a great radicalization of the people as they cried out for the government to put the boot on the neck of their opponents.

    Be extremely worried about the dehumanization of their political opponents. It justifies things like how attacking businesses owned by unvaxxed scum is good or Karen-ing out and reporting them to the government for fines. This all means more money goes from the middle class to the elite. Any pushback from the unvaxxed will result in arrest and probably losing the business anyway since you'll be in jail. They've politicized this scamdemic in a way that opponents of these unscientific restrictions and decrees and opponents of the establishment are one and the same, and they're trying to see how much they can use their propaganda and power to deal with their remaining enemies.

    And remember, it's all justified in the name of public health. Just as it's unsurprising that supposed opponents of totalitarianism and lovers of democracy like today's progressives would unknowingly become totalitarians, it's unsurprising these people would overlook the unsavory history of public health that formed an important part of Jim Crow, Nazi Germany, and all sorts of other awful societies. Or how public health went hand in hand with race-based eugenics and compulsory sterilization of many non-white women around the world. Or how "public health" was an excuse for many of the abuses that occurred regarding Indian residential schools in the US and Canada. But we'd never do anything bad with something like public health like those bad people in the past did!
     
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  7. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    I've addressed this a few times now. MRNA vax has never passed. I wonder why?

    CDC is a joke and couldn't get anything right during covid.
     
    resnor likes this.
  8. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    I work on a Pfizer campus that is producing the vaccine LOL!
     
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  9. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Because it's new tech. Besides, if you look at interim phase 3 data on these vaccines you don't see evidence of serious safety concerns.

    It's a joke you say that. They did the best they could with the data they had.

    So have you actually looked at original data on adverse events? Don't mock what I said unless you have. Drug companies don't usually have that kind of data lying around easily for people to see. I've had access to some data on certain studies from drug companies and getting into their system feels like getting into Fort Knox sometimes.
     
  10. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's been a standard vaccine that doesn't use mrna that's been available for months. I'm not sure there's a logical defense of waiting for Phase III trials to conclude when dramatically more people per day are getting the vaccine of whatever make you'd prefer than are participating in the trial, and the timeframes so heavily overlap. FDA approval fundamentally can't account for all risk of long term side effects either way.

    The drug companies aren't shielded from "willful misconduct"- which is really what is being alluded to as a potential fear, ie them hiding information, etc. And even then, it's absurd to suggest that they've got nothing to lose if these things did end up going bad- the consequences that still exist of things hypothetically going sideways are far more catastrophic to a company potentially than our joke of a liability system.
     
  11. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    With this talk about how some are angry at unvaccinated but would that happen if unvaccinated were saying stuff like "I know there have been many life saving vaccines in the past but this happened so fast and I have trouble trusting these governments and these companies so for now I will take extra precautions to protect myself and others around me until I feel its safe to take them"?

    Instead its lies about vaccines even ones we know worked in the past. Its conspiracy theories. Its comparisons to Nazi Germany. Its claims people that take the vaccines are sheep living in fear. Its a dangerous spread of misinformation.

    Its not a surprise that people see that and don't just simply go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  12. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!

    Might help to get more people vaccinated if this current administration would give an ounce of credit to the prior admin and Operation Warp speed. Perhaps having the VP walk back her prior disparaging comments that I'm sure is still rooted in some peoples mind. They could also stop turning loose unvaccinated people into city's across this country after they've crossed the border from some 150 different countries.
     
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  13. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    The previous President says its good and he got it. If people trust him then they should listen.
     
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  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    What you said is factual, but you're twisting it as well to make it seem like all medications are dangerous. Large companies in general are sued all the time; that's not an argument to say that every company is out to get the man. I mean, just Google your favorite company ever- Disney, Chic Fil A, or whatever...there's hundreds of cases pending against them. We live in a sue-happy nation.

    As far as Pfizer and others having a "track record of pushing dangerous medications", you're telling a half-truth there as well. The vast majority of their medications have passed FDA approval and are used safely when taken as prescribed. Yes, there is an opioid epidemic from people being over-prescribed and from abusing these drugs...but that's 100% on the manufacturers? Doctors and drug addicts don't share any of the blame there?

    None of the things you're saying are black and white topics, but you're stating them as an obvious fact and then applying them to vaccines. It's like saying, "Penguins are black and tires are black, so penguins are responsible for global pollution from so many cars on the road." You can't string two facts together to create a fact about something else.
     
    Finatik likes this.
  15. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    It certainly is the majority their fault in my opinion. They spent north of 200 million aggressively marketing deadly and addictive opiates. Hawking doctors to prescribe the **** with hot pharma marketing chicks. Downplaying the addictiveness or outright lying about it.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2622774/

    Hence the 26 billion dollar payout a few days ago. Johnson and Johnson being one of the big names.

    This is true, it is not black and white. Then why is it so black and white for the NFL? Why is it black and white for everyone here saying it is "ignorance" and "conspiracy theory" and "misinformation" if someone disagrees with the effectiveness or safety of these vaccines. FDA hasn't even agreed they are safe yet everyone is supposed to fall in line and get injected by these pharma companies who have proven time and time again they are not to be trusted.

    Thalidomide anyone?
     
  16. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Would you care to list all the medications you are taking and any medical conditions you may be suffering from? For my safety? Just need to know if you have aids or herpes or anything that can be transferred to me.
     
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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    He said people should get it IF they want it.

    My whole argument is around mandating, and punishing those who chose not to get it.
     
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  18. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Get it if you want! I'm glad it is available for elderly people to try or people that have crappy immune systems. Having said that, the best defense against the virus is to be in shape, active and eating healthy

    In other news, vaccinated people make up 75% of new covid cases in Singapore. Hmm... Maybe the country that these drugs are coming out of has something to gain by lying about the effectiveness.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...ee-quarters-recent-covid-19-cases-2021-07-23/
     
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  19. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    It isn't being forced on you. It isn't being forced on anyone.

    Its complete BS to now say that is your whole argument and has been the whole time
     
  20. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!

    I don't understand why this message isn't being pushed as well.
     
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  21. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    @cbrad you like stats. Looks like a pretty steady slope to me. You would expect to see a big jump in 2020 to 2021 if this virus really warranted the response it is getting.
     
  22. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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  23. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    How is that being forced

     
  24. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    How is 4 million dead going to show up in that? The bigger question is how much value do you place on the millions that die. Or how much value do you place on the 10's or 100's of thousands that die due to misinformation on vaccines.

    Cost-benefit analysis clearly favors vaccination, so while this isn't like the bubonic plague or the 1917 flu pandemic, it's still worth pushing for widespread vaccination to limit the damage.
     
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    This has been my stance the entire time. I bring up all the other information as that is WHY I'm choosing to not get it.
     
  26. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Care to explain this one? You just making up "10s or 100s of thousands" of deaths to support your argument? Of course the deaths are tragic but the argument is that far less than 1% will be hospitalized or perish from covid yet the entire world is grinding to a halt while oligarchs get richer and mom and pop shops shut. Is it any wonder why WalMart and McDonalds were allowed to stay open during the pandemic while restaurants and main st stores were forced to shut?

    There is no shortage of supplies or beds at hospitals. There is absolutely no reason to threaten shuttering the economy once again like is happening. And the overt pressure from all institutions, even the goddamn NFL, to get this vaccine is absolutely sickening and really a threat to civil liberties which we have been giving up for the past year and a half like they are nothing.

    Literally anything they want to do besides being in their own home or walking down the street they are forced to show papers. That is not forcing someone's hand? Please.
     
  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's called "coercion." When you aren't able to make a choice free from outside influence, that's coercion. When you have to say Yes to an unapproved injection, so that you can go to college, go to work, or go into stores, etc, that is coercion.

    Emergency Use Authorization means that you HAVE TO have the right to decline. It's that simple.
     
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  28. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    For who exactly? Pfizer and Moderna?

    Moderna is now valued in the 100s of billions .. they were worth a couple billion before the vaccines. Hmm.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...through-really-worth-100-billion-market-value

    Not to worry though - it's not like these pharma companies spend millions of dollars stuffing lawmaker's pockets on Capitol Hill.

    We're the government and we're here to help!!
     
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  29. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Nope

    It was a good try on your part though.

    They can provide a negative test and still go in

    And even if they didn't they still have the right to decline.

    I won't disagree that some countries go too far. Feel free to complain about that and I may agree. The question is are you forced to get it? The answer is very clearly no. No goal post moving will change that.
     
  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    There is no statistic per so on what percentage of deaths are due to misinformation on vaccines if that's what you're asking. But when almost all deaths are now among those that are unvaccinated and polls show that people who believe in COVID misinformation are FAR less likely to get a vaccine, that 10's to 100's of thousands of deaths is probably in the right range.

    Here's one such poll if you're interested:
    https://www.axios.com/axios-ipsos-p...tes-0849c642-9999-4568-9769-c1891c5e5291.html

    For a randomly chosen unvaccinated person. Probability of death due to COVID vs. probability of death due to vaccine administration leads to 10x or 100x times more likely to die by COVID. Went through that with resnor.
     
  31. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Nothing gets by this guy.
     
  32. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Explain this then if that 99% number is true:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...ee-quarters-recent-covid-19-cases-2021-07-23/

    I believe it is a bias in reporting. This 99% statistic is obviously bs. Keep seeing people regurgitate it but no actual data.

    Regardless, there has been a ton of disputes regarding the classifications of deaths in people with multiple comorbidities dying from "covid" when they were on deaths door already. Elderly people dying in their 70s and 80s is not a pandemic. It is the natural flow of life unfortunately. That's why I don't get a hard on and latch on to "99%!! see!! CDC said 99% so all your arguments are wrong and misinformation even though I don't address them!"
     
  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Vaccines don't prevent you from getting the virus. I showed a recent paper earlier that demonstrated vaccines reduce the chance of spreading the virus by about half after about 2 weeks. That means that within the first 2 weeks after vaccination you shouldn't see much of a difference. As far as why the percentage of those infected among vaccinated is so high in Singapore, well.. they've administered more doses of the vaccine than there are people in Singapore. So you don't have as many that are unvaccinated as say in the US.

    Also, don't forget there's a difference between death due to COVID and just COVID cases. That 99% statistic is about death.
     
  34. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    My argument is that the people who were showing zero symptoms from the virus was already very high and the mortality rate has always been very low. People with good immune systems who are in shape and eat healthy, vaccinated or not vaccinated, will not be hospitalized or suffer ill effects from this virus. Why inject yourself?

    If you're a fatso, yeah.. you might want to get vaccinated. Maybe? Or at least it is good you have the option. But no doctor, prior to this mess, would advise a healthy person to get vaccinated against something that is not a threat to them.
     
  35. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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  36. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If you're in a very low risk category the vaccine won't help much, but even in relatively low risk categories it will reduce spread of the virus if you at all care about others who aren't as healthy. But taking data from say 40-60 year olds you're still 10x or more times likely to die from COVID than from any adverse effect of the vaccine. So you need to be in a really really low risk category for that cost benefit analysis to say no vaccination.

    The ONE category where I can see the cost-benefit analysis being against vaccination is if you've already recovered from a COVID infection of both variants. There it's probably of no benefit to get the vaccine, and you probably won't spread it at a faster rate if you don't get the vaccine. But in almost every other category the cost-benefit analysis is towards vaccination.
     
  37. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Sample size is nowhere large enough to make this call yet. These trials take years to play out. And even then, we still won't know long term effects until a decade has passed or so.
     
  38. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    This is sample size from the world. There's country by country data on death by age group. For 40-60 year olds that percentage varies in general from 0.1% to 1% for COVID itself, and for vaccines you have VAERS for example. Naturally if you're healthier than average the risk is lower, but this isn't a sample size issue.

    And there is NO science behind the idea that for vaccines you need decades to see long term effects (not even years). Again, vaccines aren't the same as medications you take regularly. You get injected once, twice, or in some cases up to 5 times and that's it. Big difference in the biological mechanisms involved.
     
  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Do you have concerns over the PCR swabs being sterilized with ethylene oxide, one of the most carcinogenic compounds out there? Why should I have to repeatedly shove that I'm my face, just to walk around a free man?

    As to am I forced to get it? I guess no, as no one has sent a man with a gun to my house to make me take it. But they're trying to coerce everyone into taking it.
     
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  40. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Then why are none of the vaccines FDA approved yet? Why has no mrna vaccine ever been approved even though they have been trying for decades?
     

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