It seemed ludicrous that the government would pressure an entire civilian population to take a non government approved vaccine a year ago. Imagine what will pass as normal this time in 2022... We are doomed! People are giving away civil liberties in favor of perceived safety. You don't just get them back. Blood must be shed to renew them.
I already answered that. This is the first (as far as I know) mRNA vaccine that's even progressed to phase 3 clinical trials. Do you know of another? The idea behind using mRNA is several decades old but as far as I know it's less than a decade since any pharma company invested seriously in the idea. So no it's not "decades" that they've been trying to get FDA approval. Like I said, as far as I know this is the first time. It's new tech. And even if this weren't the first, phase 3 monitors both efficacy and adverse reactions. Like I said earlier vaccines that didn't pass phase 3 were due to not demonstrating efficacy, or showing inconsistent results, etc., not long-term health effects. Of course, it's possible to identify more shorter-term health effects with larger sample size, but you don't need a clinical trial for that with billions of doses given (you're interested in effectiveness over efficacy anyway, so the effectiveness in the real world trumps the control conditions).
As I mentioned a few pages back, my best friend age 46, 2% body fat, and a marathon runner died from COVID. I promise he was in better shape than you because he was basically in better shape than anyone I know. So please, don't spin the story that only old, fat people die from COVID.
Here's a few interesting reads: https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ "Patients with Crigler-Najjar are missing a key liver enzyme needed to break down bilirubin, a yellowish substance that crops up in the body as old red blood cells break down. Without that enzyme, bilirubin proliferates in the blood, leading to jaundice, muscle degeneration, and even brain damage. In Moderna’s eyes, the one-in-million disease looked like an ideal candidate for mRNA therapy. The company crafted a string of mRNA that would encode for the missing enzyme, believing it had hit upon an excellent starting point to prove technology could be used to treat rare diseases. But things gradually came apart last year. Every drug has what’s called a therapeutic window, the scientific sweet spot where a treatment is powerful enough to have an effect on a disease but not so strong as to put patients at too much risk. For mRNA, that has proved elusive." There are tons of documented side effects. Have you looked at data from VAERS? https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6520/1022 "This summer, computational biologist Luke Hutchison volunteered for a trial of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine. But after the second injection, his arm swelled up to the size of a “goose egg,” Hutchison says. He can't be sure he got the vaccine and not a placebo, but within a few hours, Hutchison, who was healthy and 43, was beset by bone and muscle aches and a 38.9°C fever. “I started shaking. I had cold and hot rushes,” he says. “I was sitting by the phone all night long thinking: ‘Should I call 911?" People need to stop this ridiculous "you are a bad person if you don't get vaxxed" mantra. MRNA is still in its infancy. I am healthy through other choices I have made in my life. My immune system is strong.
No If you are confident you are making the right call someone trying to "coerce" you hardly seems like something to lose sleep over
It is a fact. Obviously not "only" fat people. I didn't say that so don't misquote me. From CDC since that seems to be accepted here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlie...coronavirus-hospitalizations/?sh=45f4b9143d1f
Well we will have to wait and see but either way freedom of choice doesn't mean freedom of consequence
It's not about wokeness. It's about losing money if teams have to cancel games again like they did last season. Nobody's being "forced" to get the vaccine, they're being told that if they choose to abstain, they have to do the exact same things they did last year. But, you do you.
Not about wokeness and no one is being forced to get it yet 2 NFL coaches just lost their jobs because of the teams forcing them to take it. To that you say: Sure sounds like you are hoping anyone not vaccinated loses their job to me.
https://www.spandidos-publications.com/10.3892/ijmm.2020.4733 More science pointing towards caution on the vaccines.
Right. So they were forced out of their jobs because of a mandatory vaccine policy even though the vaccine is not deemed safe by the FDA. Got it. We are on same page here.
So you're saying that businesses don't have the right to hire/fire employees that don't follow company policies? This is the NFL mandating this and for better or for worse, teams are being forced to comply. I know you're against vaccines, but if you want to preach the "freedoms of Americans" then you actually have to apply that to all Americans, business owners included. I have a feeling that we'll reach the point where movie theaters, concerts, sporting events, etc. are going to require vaccination to enter...it could even trickle down to grocery stores. You're looking at it as forced policies but businesses have a responsibility to protect their employees and the community.
Employees also have a right to privacy regarding medical matters. Should an employer be able to ask if you have AIDS or herpes? The general point here is that this is all moving towards "you can't buy groceries unless you show you are vaccinated".
You can't spread AIDS or Herpes through a cough. But you know this. You also know that you'd sue the crap out of your local school board for failing to take mitigating steps if a kid with Tuberculosis infected his entire class, including your kid.
Thats misleading hyperbole, misinformation and fearmongering at it's core right there. You would be better served making your points if you stayed away from that kind of rhetoric. I can't take that seriously. Discuss side effects and long term risk all day. Don't criticize others for making fear based decisions by just telling everyone what YOU are afraid of, cuz really you are just making a different fear based decision. You have to show ID to get into a bar. Or get on a plane. Or withdraw cash from the bank. Or legally operate a motor vehicle. Or sign for certified mail. Is that a violation of your civil rights? You have to travel for work? Airline says you have to have proof of vaccination to board the plane? (Hasn't happened, won't happen but to follow your hypothetical) OK. You can't get on that airlines planes. Other airlines may not have the same rules, get on one of those, charter a private flight. Take flying lessons and by a jet. Or take a car, or a boat, or a train, or a hot air balloon. Right to travel about the country not restricted or prohibited. Your free to go. Same thing with grocery stores, free online shopping and delivery to your door is available everywhere now, farmers markets, co ops, bakery farm and dairy direct. Again, hasn't happened, won't happen, but if it did and you needed to "show your papers" to get into your local Kroger it still wouldn't mean "you can't buy groceries unless you show your vaccinated" See what I mean.
False equivalence. Not even close to the same thing. Forcing an injection is absolutely a violation of civil rights. It's not there yet but they are taking things off the table slowly and the rhetoric is only increasing. Did you watch Biden's CNN town hall the other night? There's a federal mandate. You have to wear a mask on flights even though they have hepa filtration on board and there are zero mask mandates by states. Vaccine passports have been discussed in a bunch of states and federally, what seems unlikely today will most likely not be next year. Look how much has changed and how much people were willing to give up the past year. That is being unreasonable. I have to go from NY to California, I'm supposed to take a car because Joe Biden said you need a vaccine to fly commercially? Of course we are not there yet. But it sure seems trending that way. I'll give you this one. Grocery store doesn't really bother me as much losing but still I could see them doing something goofy like that this winter.
It doesn't seem like you understand how they accelerated the vaccine testing. They did the different testing stages all at once instead of sequentially, that is how it was sped up. They didn't lower the requirements to test for safety. Are there reactions to the vaccine? Of course. There are reactions to eating peanuts. More than 3.8 Billion doses have been administered world wide. There is plenty of data at this point.
Uh, did I say that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement It seems like you don't understand how normal clinical trials work and why it is concerning that this is being authorized under emergency use. Can't even sue if you have health problems 5 years from now. These companies have a pretty bad track record of misleading and losing in court. One a few days ago for the opiate crisis as I stated earlier in the thread for 26 billion. Johnson and Johnson is one of the payers. There have been 12k deaths reported due to the vaccines. https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/covid-19-vaccine-related-fatalities-updated We still have no long term data on the long term effects. It's been a year.
First of all, I don't believe that's a valid source since I can't verify it on other sites. But let's pretend it's a proven fact for a moment- 12k vaccination deaths for vaccinating roughly 60% of the country. There's been 610,000 US COVID deaths, which is approximately 50.8 times higher than your vaccination stats. So even though I do not believe your source, you're still much more likely to die without getting the vaccine.
VAERS isn't a real source? I linked the data page from VAERS in this thread. The death per vaccine dose given is still something crazy low but 12k is enough for me to say "No thanks" my immune system has served me fine thus far.
Its just the misinterpretation of the VAERS data again. The same link he gives makes that clear Its hard for me to think these arguments are given in good faith when people don't even seem to read their own sources
Why should there be ANY consequence for not taking an UNAPPROVED injection? Why should there be ANY consequences for declining an injection that is ONLY available through Emergency Use Authorization, which specifies that the person must be able to say no, and that saying yes must be completely voluntary?
Kind of like how every death with covid in 2020 no matter what actually killed them cause of death was listed as covid-19. Funny how that works. I did read. If you had read what I said earlier - I believe the CDC is garbage.
Again, you can't have VAERS both ways. When they want to prove safety of vaccines, they point to VAERS. But when VAERS shows data that go against the narrative, now VAERS isn't really trustworthy. The ONLY place that vaccine adverse reactions can be reported is VAERS. Filing a report is a federal thing, and they follow up on reports. Studies show that only 1-10% of events are reported. It's silly to disregard the insane numbers that are in VAERS right now. Associated deaths are up past 12k, I think.
You didn't answer the question. Why should there be any consequences, other than potentially getting sick?
12k out of Billions. And the short term effects of COVID are known. And you implied that that the 5th somehow meant that you had unrestricted access to flying. Because "freedom of movement". Which it doesn't. Just like it doesn't mean that speed limits, sober driving, seat belts, license requirements, or any number of other travel restrictions are unconstitutional.
Pretty heartless. What if it was your mother or father or son or brother? Disrespectful to say the least. Kind of like how there were road blocks set up at state lines last year? The point is the genie is being let out of the bottle and we don't keep these rights unless we fight for them.