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Report: Brian Flores wanted Herbert over Tua

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by hitman8, Sep 28, 2021.

  1. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...tune-time-for-dolphins-2020-first-round-pick/

    "Head coach Brian Flores has made it clear to those around him how much he prizes availability at the quarterback position (and prefers bigger, strapping pocket passers all things considered), spending his time as an assistant in New England around Hall of Famer Tom Brady.

    Numerous personnel men and coaches around the league have heard, dating back to last season, that Flores would have preferred to select Justin Herbert over Tagovailoa, although team and league sources say general manager Chris Grier consults with Flores on all big personnel moves and in general tries to provide the personnel the coaches covet. Regardless, Flores was quick to hook Tagovailoa from games his rookie season, injuries have been a problem for the passer since his time at Alabama, and the Dolphins have done considerable work on Watson, with owner Stephen Ross quite intrigued by the quarterback, sources said."

    Grier needs to go....
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
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  2. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Flores is a smart man. Not sure how anyone wouldn’t choose a tall, athletic QB who dominated Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl over a short, injury prone player who’s hard to evaluate throwing to 4 1st round pick WR’s and an all world OL.
     
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  3. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Daunte Culpepper vs Drew Brees?
     
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  4. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    That’s fair but anyone who every watched Culpepper(I live in Iowa and am stuck watching MN) knew he was a one trick pony. Strong arm who could throw a deep ball to Moss.

    Obviously Brees had some question marks but I knew Culpepper would bust.

    And besides, shorter QB’s are the exception rather than the rule. If you’re gonna play the short mans game, you better bring something special like Wilson, Brees or Murray. I see none of that with Tua.
     
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  5. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Even though I have been supportive of Tagovailoa, I was skeptical with him being considered as our pick. His injury history being one of the factors, but additionally the supporting cast…or lack there of. Tagovailoa was fantastic at Alabama as the Crimson Tide had a FULLY stacked offense. Everything was already there in place for Tua to be successful The Dolphins lack that fully stacked offense and have for quite some time.

    Our offensive line has been dismal for at least 10 years, we’ve truly lacked any legitimate running game (save the one awesome year with Ajayi) since Ricky Williams and our receivers have been average at best…works in progress.

    Now Tagovailoa does have targets to throw to in Geseicki, Waddle, Fuller and depending on which Sunday it is, Parker. But the Dolphins have no true running threat and this YOUNG offensive line has yet to develop into a perennial wall of protection that many have stated would be. This I blame on the offensive line coach. If you’re going to go with youth, you better have a Master as a teacher.

    If the Dolphins put no legitimate effort into developing this young line and if we never make a play for a TRUE running back, it’s never going to matter who is under center…the results are going to be the same.
     
  6. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    And I want a coach who won’t throw a cross field screen pass 5 yards deep in their own endzone !!

    Sometimes you don’t get what you want. But you still have a hand to play.

    Flores should be focusing on his own job.
    Not complaining around the league to everyone that he can pick college quarterbacks.

    (Im not defending Grier here)
     
  7. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Feel a bit better knowing Flores wanted Herbert. I didn't think he could possibly have wanted Tua over him. He's a real football guy. He knows better and you could see that after Tua was named starter and they had to demote Fitz that Flores didn't really want to and felt a bit dejected and pissed. etc.

    As i have said many times, it was a colossal mistake, one that can set a franchise back for many many years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
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  8. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Yeah and also its meaningless now. Maybe Flores really did want Herbert but him putting this out there after the fact so he can cover his *** doesn't help the team.

    This and the Watson stuff just makes the whole franchise look dysfunctional from the top to bottom
     
  9. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    He didn't put it out there.
     
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  10. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I am going to lean into my cynical side and say he wanted it out there.

    There is a reason these reports weren't out there pre draft or right after the draft. Its self serving because now we know how good Herbert is.
     
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  11. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    You expected him to let it be known before the draft who he wanted to draft?
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
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  12. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Of course not because he didn't want it out there. Now he does.
     
  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Well, there's also a reason why the Watson talk keeps coming up in league circles. It could mean nothing, just someone trying to poke the bear within the organization, or it could mean there's actual internal talks unraveling.

    I mean, think about it- Ross was very vocal wanting Lamar Jackson. We passed and Jackson developed, so Ross has already had a taste of knowing better than his GM. We heard that he was locked on Tua and it's why we went that direction, and now it's possible that he's locked on Watson. If there's truth to this stuff, to me it sounds like he's ready to move on with the best possible QB he could field. And honestly, there's nothing wrong with that (outside of the legal mess for Watson).

    It is important to remember though that we started looking at this potential trade before all the circus stuff came out. Watson is a can't miss QB in his early prime....it's every coaches/owners dream. So I don't think it's far-fetched.
     
  14. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    Whatever happened to that tank for Tua thread...
     
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  15. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I posted this in one of the other threads - my comment being that we shouldn't be surprised really. He comes from the Patriots system and they prefer the tall pocket passer types. See Jones, Mac as their choice to move on from Brady. It makes sense that Flores would see more of that type in Herbert than in Tua and have advocated for that.

    There are a lot of different reads here. It could be nothing but someone with some knowledge trying to drop some hot takes into the Tuasphere. It could be Flores leaking the info to distance himself from Grier. Could be anything. I do wonder if they are joined at the hip though. I know we have done the whole "holdover" thing before to poor results, but is Flores worth foisting upon a potentially new GM? Would Flores be given actual personnel control over a new GM? Do we trust Flores the talent evaluator? How much of Jackson and Iggy did Flores sign off on vs. Grier?
     
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  16. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    "Numerous personnel men and coaches around the league have heard, dating back to last season, that Flores would have preferred to select Justin Herbert over Tagovailoa, although team and league sources say general manager Chris Grier consults with Flores on all big personnel moves and in general tries to provide the personnel the coaches covet."

    Ummmmmm......
     
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  17. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well I was speculating last week that the Flores/Grier relationship may be at a crossroads here given the start to the season and I suspected some finger pointing might start as the heat starts to ramp up. First shots have been fired IMO and it appears to be Flores taking the first shot; or at least someone in his camp.

    Either way I think we are seeing the beginnings of the fracture between Grier and Flores. Things were going well in the early stages of the rebuild as they had the same end game in mind. Stock piling picks to rebuild the team for Flores. Yet here we are now with most of those picks spent on players that aren't panning out including the young QB (although its still early for many of these picks, it's not off to a good start obviously) and the team is struggling and in most area's regressing. It was only a matter of time before the heat gets turned up and fingers start being pointed as these guys fight for themselves and their job security.

    To me; this is the first part of that rift starting for form and lines being drawn, but I didn't expect it to go this big; this fast with a statement on the QB situation. I think whether it is intentional or not from either party; you're starting to see and hear people talking and fingers being pointed and that's not a good thing.

    I hope Ross or at least the people close to him are smart enough to figure this out and get to the bottom of who really wanted who and what over the last few drafts here. Not based on hingsight, but on their feelings at the time these draft choices were made. Not everyone always gets what they want, but IMO the GM should defer to the HC in situations like this since the HC knows the scheme and lockerroom he's trying to build but it's looking like that's not the case and it's starting to look like maybe that GM/HC relationship that they said was going to be so good from the start; never really was, or at least isn't currently. Either way IMO the lines are being drawn between the two; whether it's by Grier and Flores themselves; their agents; members of their respective "staffs"; or just the media drumming up BS; either way they're in for some rocky weather and rightfully so given the results. Should be interesting to see how this goes.

    Personally I'm not surprised to hear Flores preferred Herbert. His coaching decisions last year to constantly pull Tua and seemingly want to stick to Fitz seemed to indicate he didn't trust Tua but was being "forced" to play him and as soon as things went rough he pulled the plug and went back to Fitz. Seems like this little rift has been developing for quite some time
     
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  18. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Yep.Flores said 2 weeks before tuas first start if he was my son I would not.play him this year.
    He sure looked like an idiot when he announced he was starting.Gailey was pissed because he was not consulted and he knew Tua did not know the play book
    He felt betrayed and retired and the rest of league saw this That's why's we have 2 oc because no real candidates want to come here.
     
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  19. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    You made everything up in this post.

    Flores said he wouldn't play him just because the media was pressuring him. Not because he "didn't know the playbook".

    Chan Gailey retired because he was 70 years old and was a coaching dinosaur that the league passed by.

    It's amazing what rattles around in your head.
     
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  20. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    That's not true at all.
    Flores did comment on Tua's condition, during a presser, saying that if Tua were his son he wouldn't want him playing - wouldn't start him. It was an official presser and the video will still be out there on Youtube somewhere.

    Flores didn't look good when Tua started, and it was confirmed to be a shock. Flores had been preaching all year long about the best players will start.

    We don't know how Gailey felt about it, but neither do we know his personal reasons for retirement. Tua said he didn't know the playbook. If that was true then Gailey and Flores would have known it. It's conjecture, but it's reasonable conjecture, to see that someone other than Flores forced Tua into the starting line up. We can't be certain but it seems very reasonable.

    We've lost multiple OC's so far. It's not unreasonable to think that Gailey wasn't happy. Alternatively, Gailey could have been forced out, along with Fitz, by whoever *cough* Grier *cough* wanted Tua front and center. Again, guess work, but something clearly isn't right with the Dolphins leadership.
     
  21. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    If you mean the offseason then Fitz wasn't forced out. No chance he wants to back up Tua when he could start in Washington.
     
  22. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Should we trade for Jimmy G? I can’t watch Jacoby Brissett anymore, it’s sickening watching him play. Tua’s body is not going to last either behind this line.
     
  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    His larger point there was that Fitz should have remained the starter for a longer duration last year, and Tua should have been protected on the bench while learning the playbook.

    Fitz was the better QB at the point Tua took over and he was obviously in shock from his interviews that day. He felt betrayed- but who betrayed him? Was it Flores or someone higher up on the food chain? And if it was Flores, then why'd he go back to Fitz so quickly and use him off the bench late in the season? Nothing about this makes me feel like Flores wanted to bench Fitz when they did.

    And for the record, that's not anti-Tua...he just wasn't ready at that point. I do think he's ready this season though once he heals up.
     
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  24. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I know I was just commenting on the end where he said Gailey could have been forced out along with Fitz which definitely didn't happen and bringing back Fitz wouldn't have made sense anyway.

    I do think one thing that gets lost in the discussion of last year was that Fitz wasn't good in his last game before getting benched. We definitely saw the roller coaster of Fitz in those first 6 games so I don't think its impossible Flores could have decided it was time to make the move.

    The reality its all speculation. The only thing that is safe to say is that even if putting in Tua was the right move long term the move should be 100% up to Flores and if it wasn't its a problem.

    But the Gailey hire was still a bad move regardless.
     
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  25. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Fitzpatrick has a track record. It's called looking great one game and looking terrible the next one. He wasn't magically going to become a consistent quarterback at age 38 and go 11-5 as a starter and bring a team to the playoffs for the first time and make a playoff run.

    It was definitely the right time to make the move to Tua even if he wasn't 100% ready. His development is much more important than a playoff pipe dream with Fitzpatrick.

    He
     
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  26. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    You are clueless as usual.He said 100 percent said if he was my kid I would not play him because he is not ready.
    And Tua came out and said he did not know the playbook last year.
    If you actually did some research you would know. Gailey was pissed because he got stuck with Qb who did not know the playbook therefore handcuffing his play calling.Gailey was not even consulted about the switch which in turn he told them he is not coming back because they betrayed him.This meaning chris grier.
     
  27. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    This might be true but just a reminder that LaCanfora isn't a reliable reporter. He's got a long history of making stuff up, especially when it comes to the Dolphins.
     
  28. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/thespu...sage-for-those-calling-for-tua-tagovailoa/amp

    He was talking about media pressure.

    Edit: In relation to his injury.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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  29. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    From Tuas own mouth he said he did not know playbook in 2020.Between his injury and lack of knowledge of playbook why the hell was he playing..
    Flores looked like an idiot 2 weeks after his statement and he was pressured by Grier because Burrow and Herbert were starting and his guy wasn't!
    How do expect the OC to call successful plays when this dude did not know the playbook?
    And let's be clear Tua has publically said he did not know the playbook!
    Gailey was set up to fail.
     
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  30. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    I thought the move to Tua was idiotic then and even worse now.
    I will concede that Flores was likely forced to start Tua by Ross and or Grier.

    He did not want to pull a hot Fitzpatrick in favor of Tua who was coming off a terrible injury with no preseason and limited training camp. It was a terrible, terrible move that was forced upon Flores IMO.

    I have zero evidence to support my thesis other than how quickly Flores pulled Tua when things went south. That was the only power he could exert after his hands were tied behind his back. This takes in to account how Flores turned the tank narrative on it's head in 2019 and his overall demeanor. If I had to bet that Flores had his hand forced I'd go all in on it.

    With that being said both Gailey and Flores have been setup to fail by Grier/Ross ineptitude, meddling and stupidity.

    Flores is a damn good coach who is getting railroaded. I'm willing to bet that part of that meddling is hurting Flores and his ability to align the right staff around him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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  31. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Exactly
    Flores proved in year one when they were like 0-7 and came back to win 5 games..
    Apperntly Ross has 2nd thoughts about drafting Tua after the hip injury Grier was looking bad because of Herbert so he forced Flores to play him.Flores knew he wasn't ready Gailey was getting crucified by everybody about closing the playbook for Tua when the truth was he didn't even know the playbook.
    People should be apologizing to gailey.
     
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  32. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    Flores also really wanted Patriots re tread Brissett as our back up QB this season… I wouldn’t say he is a QB picking savant.
     
  33. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For real, he should have gotten Aaron Rodgers to back up Tua! I'm so angry!
     
  34. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Backup QB shouldn’t even be a discussion if you don’t draft a QB who can’t stay healthy.
     
  35. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    As you should be, He is the 5th highest paid backup quarterback in the league this year.

    He is the 8th highest paid player on the Dolphins roster.
    He makes more money than any Offensive lineman on our roster.

    I don’t know if you’ve been watching the games, but he sucks and has proven to be a complete misallocation of resources. He is a backup for a reason, I get it. But you expect competence at that price. Guy is a trainwreck.

    I think rookie min wager Sinnett is more athletic and could get the ball downfield better than Brissett.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I wondered myself if we wouldn't be better off with Sinnett. He doesn't have the experience Brissett does, but he has a lot more zip on the ball as well and what seemed like pretty good placement in pre-season.
     
  37. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Uhh. We never saw this infamous Fitztragic thing while he was a Phin.

    The team did go 11-5 with Fitz as the starter for awhile, then acting as a much needed, very good relief pitcher to relieve your boy who kept getting pulled for his ineptitude and that record is usually good enough to get into the playoffs. Pipe dream? Do you really think they would have been 11-5 that year without Fitz playing and bailing out your boy at times? That Fitzy led team, did almost beat Barfalo when they first met. They lost by FG. He certainly had a better shot at beating Barfalo in that last disaster of a game than your Samoan wonder boy.

    Dude, keep it up, you're doing great.
     
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  38. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    :sidelol:
     
  39. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Fitzpatrick was 9-11 as a Dolphins starter and 59-87 in his career.

    We know what he is. Inconsistent and erratic for his entire career.
     
  40. Fitzy was a QB savant compared to laconic Brisett and invalid jv-arm Tuba. No sane, cognitively available person would draft the bruised and battered miniscule boy from Alabama over the 6'6 Giga Chad man-beast from Oregon. Hmmmm, howitzer arm, elite physical skills, corched up by Wario - the West Kendall Al Golden .....or the kid you make put away the crayons because he doesn't protest, with tiny little baby arms, who lays pronate with ailments ranging from scurvy to consumption like it is a hobby. However, grier is that man that did so. He looks a bit hydro-cephalic, does not seem to have much of a wit....why would anyone let a dullard make multi-million decisions is beyond our understanding. But it will all be over soon....Grier for lack of ability, Ross for physical decline, Tua for just being a friendly lad, Austen Jacksom for incompetence, Flores for hooking his wagon to this group of grifting clowns.
     
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