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Why hasn’t anyone been fired yet???

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Oct 4, 2021.

  1. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    4 weeks in and we have legitimately one of the worst offensive productions in the league. We can’t run we can’t pass past 5 yards, we can’t pass protect and we can’t run block.

    we have too much talent being wasted and we have 2 offensive coordinators and a third calling the plays and a head coach who can’t seem to build a team.

    why are we not hearing about anyone ripping someone a new *** or seeing any firings happening? In a week or two we will be out of contention for the east and more then likely any shot at a playoff spot.

    Where is our leaders when we need them? Everyone is happy with status quo???
     
  2. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I think youre overrating the talent… there isnt a talent offensively that i would give above a C- grade. But that also falls on Grier and Flores because they picked these talents.
     
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  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Firing is only one side of a two-sided coin. The other side is hiring. It's early in the season. Who can you bring in that you'll be happy with...and who would want to come?
     
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  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Did you see Parker and Gisecki in the late 3rd/early 4th quarter this week? No way they grade out at a C minus in anyone's book if they're objective. I would put Waddle and Gaskin higher than that as well.

    The problem with the four names above is that they got around 5-total touches between them in the first three quarters of that game. That's definitely on the coaching and the whole scheme in general...really an epic fail.
     
  5. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Gisecki is a second option tight end on most contenders and Parker would not even be a starter or make the roster on most contenders. Who is Parker better than on the Buccaneers WR depth? I grade parker a D.. and Gesicki is a D as well. Theyre not special.
     
  6. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    We have many dangerous receivers, but we don't have an Oline that can pass protect well enough, or a QB with the arm, vision and accuracy to get them the ball down field.
     
  7. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I agree on Gesicki, he is not a real tight end. A real tight end can actually run block and present a dual threat in the run game and the pass game.

    Parker on the other hand I think is a special talent, aside from his injury issues he Would be a #1 or 2 receiver on most other teams with a better QB and oline.

    He's the type of guy who would not surprise me if he left and then blew up the league somewhere else, as happens often with our former players.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  8. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    We should fire one of our two offensive coordinators and put the heat on the other one.
     
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  9. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of TE, we drafted one in the 3rd round when we really don’t need one and I have yet to see him. Is he injured or just another poor Grier draft choice?
     
  10. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    ^Hunter Long was a TERRIBLE draft pick. Made zero sense.
     
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  11. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I wouldn't fire any coaches. That rarely makes a difference. But I would fire Grier immediately. Do not allow that man to use any other assets to add to the problem. Promote Marvin Allen and have him keep the ship on course for the rest of this year with minor transactions to maintain the 53 and PS. And then hope that someone else with experience comes free in January.

    And then, assess the coaching staff and what we do with that mess. At this point, I think the likely outcome ends up being Flores as a lame duck in 2022 after he's unable to hire better coaching on the offensive side. Sad but its how I see it working out.
     
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  12. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    Barely seen him play and didn’t watch him in college. Why do you feel that way?
     
  13. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I agree. He could be the long-term replacement for Gesicki. Just a TBD right now.
     
  14. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Because we had Mike Gesicki, Adam Shaheen, and Smythe already in place. Utilizing the TE position was one of our better strengths last year and we were three deep at the position. It made no sense what so ever to draft Hunter Long when we had all that already going for us.
     
  15. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    Fair, I read your post as specifically disliking Long, I misinterpreted.
     
  16. Alan in England

    Alan in England Active Member

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    We will go into the London game at 1-4 and then the Jaguars will record their first win of the season to add to the woe.
     
  17. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    If we lose to the Jaguars, there had better be some people on the unemployment line the next day.
     
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  18. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    If we lose to the Jags, I hope Flores gets fired.
     
  19. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    This is kind of a problem with co-OCs. Like, which do you fire or demote, why that one over the other one?

    I hope that the process is at least being streamlined and refined behind the scenes. Whatever Flores is saying publicly, if he is actually happy with it, then he is the main problem.
     
  20. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    We can trade him for Urban. :crapstrom:
     
  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I absolutely do not expect Flores to be fired in-season no matter what, but if we lose to the Jaguars to start the year 1-5, then he's probably a dead man walking. There really is no coming back from that.

    1-4 is a damning spot to be in, but if they can beat Jacksonville, then with the very light schedule that we have the rest of the way, maybe he can conjure some 2016-style magic. The team started 1-4 that year, made some major changes on offense after that week, and finished on a 9-2 run. That's probably what it would take this year too.

    However, every other time in franchise history post-Shula that the Fins have started 1-3. they've ended up with a losing record. And even Shula himself couldn't do better than a few .500 records after that.
     
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  22. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    At this point, the season rides on Tua coming back and playing well behind a revamped OL. The defense would be good enough with an offense putting up 24 points or so a game.

    Miami simply can't lose to a Jags team in turmoil. A loss there would mean no game left on the schedule should have the Phins favored to win it.
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    People really need to have an unbiased perspective though, and we're not seeing a lot of that here.

    • Week 1, we open the season @NE and win. Do you fire a coach for that? Nope
    • Week 2, we put up an embarrassing effort against the Bills. Do you fire a coach for that in week 2, after just winning a division game on the road? Nope...especially since we lost our QB1 on the 2nd series.
    • Week 3, we lose to a red-hot Raiders team in overtime. Some problems to be seen with no QB1, but we were competitive and came back. Not firing anyone for that either.
    • Week 4, against a really beat up Colts team. I remember Galant said something like, "A win against the Colts is hard to get excited for because of how bad they are." Everyone assumed we'd stomp them and when that didn't happen, the pitchforks came out.

    I get we're 1-3 and I get that we could easily be 3-1 right now. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. But all the talk about dysfunction in the organization, people need to be fired, etc. are being blown way out of proportion. The Bills were going to beat us regardless. The Raiders were a tough draw and we fought hard. The "real problem" here is the over-reactions to the losses in weeks 2 and 3 from people who already knew we were going to lose.

    And the Colts? We'll, that's inexcusable....but it's also one horrible week with a backup QB and a terrible game-plan. Nothing worked there and yes, I agree, changes need to be made immediately. But I don't think it's an "end of an era" type of problem.
     
  24. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    You know where else you won't see it? From an owner who clearly is a fan but knows little about the inner-workings of the league. If we lose to the Jags, Flores is gone. Maybe not that week, but the bell will have tolled.
     
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  25. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I think you're right about Ross, but at the same time I don't think he makes that same knee-jerk reaction. And I'm basing that off of his history with the team- he's never really put his foot down and drawn a line in the sand. I mean, even with Gase and the new direction- he wanted Gase to stay and remain the head coach.
     
  26. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Ross has been consistent in his firing. Give the coach a minimum of 3 years, and a maximum of 3.5 years, to become a winner. He fired Gase after 7-9 in year 3, but let Sparano and Philbin stay on for the beginning of year 4. Sparano went 3-9 before being fired mid-season year 4 while Philbin went 1-3 before being fired mid-season.

    So I suspect it's not what happens against Jacksonville per se that's important because Ross will likely give Flores the full year no matter what. If we end with like a 8-9 record, then I think Flores staying or leaving is 50/50. Anything worse I bet he's gone. However, if he stays and he starts off bad next year he could go the way of Philbin and Sparano and get fired mid-season. At least based on Ross' history.
     
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  27. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    The team had a 14-0 lead at Las Vegas and then they imploded, and couldn't/wouldn't do anything on offense most of the rest of the game until desperation time.

    Last week, they continued to play like crap on offense, but held the Colts in check for almost the entire first half and should have been winning by a lot until a ST penalty gave Indy new life, they took the lead and all of the momentum, and that was it.

    They could have won either game. They absolutely had to win at least one of them if they were going to be a serious playoff contender. And they blew it. Terribly. As it stands, a late fumble by the Patriots as they were driving to score in the 4th quarter in Week 1 is all that stands between this team and 0-5. Think about that. And to this point, they've given us next to nothing to be excited or hopeful about.

    And so if they were to go to London and lose to a Jaguars team that's one of the worst in the NFL, then to me they will have proven that's what they are too. Bottom feeders that aren't really getting better.
     
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  28. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s madness talking about firing Flores 2 years and 5 games into his tenure. No sane coach would come here with such unrealistic expectations plus you’re not really giving the coach time for their plan to work out.

    4 games of underperformance < 2 years of over performance
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
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  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah, definitely have to let the season play out. We still play one team that's currently 0-4, 6 teams that are currently 1-3, and two teams that are currently 2-2. So lots of opportunity to turn this season around. And whatever people think about Tua he's still better than Brissett, and he's coming back too.

    One thing that worries me though is the current average point differential per game of -11.75. Since 1970 the worst average point differential per game for the Dolphins was Flores' first year at -11.8 per game. Second worst was that 1-15 season in 2007 with an average point differential per game of -10.6. To show you how unlikely that is, the 3rd worst was -7.1. And Tampa is favored by 10 right now. After W/L the most important stat is point differential, and how we end up there should tell us a lot about whether Flores is taking us down the right path or wrong path.

    Anyway, too early to call for Flores' firing I agree. Have to let the season play out. Same thing with assessing Tua. Let the year play out. But I'm making no excuses for either of them at the end of the year.
     
  30. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    incorrect my good sir we’re up in arms about the lack of preparedness / game plan / execution in the field from all three areas of our team. Our offensive coordinators can’t find a way to move the ball at all anymore. I’m tired of being in 3rd year of a rebuild and still having no idea what this team is supposed to be. I’m tired of being tired of waiting for this owner and coaching staff to get it right seems like they are just wildly guessing instead of planning properly or building a team in some mold.. I’m not over reacting I’m extremely tired of the same old same old haunting this team…
     
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  31. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hiring a head coach and not letting him choose his QB is a travesty to begin with but, that's the only coaching candidates that we're ever going to get, unproven rookies that want their shot and don't have the fire power to bring in well established coordinators and position coaches. Give Flores a QB of Watson's caliber and this conversation about firings goes away.
     
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  32. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    With this offensive line? And this sort of crappy playcaling?
     
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    So we weren't prepared in any of the 4 games so far in any of the three phases? The offense, defense and special teams failed in all four games? I don't think that's being unbiased.

    Okay, but why? Do they just completely suck as coaches, or did we go into this season with a completely unprepared line that got our starting QB knocked out.

    I can see you passing blame in week one, even though we won, but you're upset they were unprepared to have Brissett as the starter in week 2? That was COMPLETELY EXPECTED once Tua went down.

    And let's be fair- they are moving the ball some. Objectively, it's not accurate to say they haven't moved the ball at all.

    You and every other fan on the planet...that is an objective statement by itself. Then again, you do know who we're "supposed to be"- shutdown defense, fast-moving offense, lots of misdirection and mismatches. Well-disciplined, low penalties, play from the lead and then dial up the defensive pressure.

    We just can't do that with this offensive line and Brissett. It all falls apart when we're playing from behind and we're the ones getting pressured. In other words, we're not playing to our strengths in the roster and it clearly shows.

    Don't you think every team that's not the Patriots say the same thing every year? This is not a Miami-only problem...one team wins it all and 31 others lose every year. You are overreacting, good sir, by expecting us to become the Patriots dynasty with a bunch of developing young players who just aren't there yet.

    I want to win just as badly as you do, but our QB is hurt, some premium picks have busted and even an elite defense can't do everything.
     
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  34. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    SOME premium picks have busted??
    SOME?
     
  35. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Waddle, Phillips, Long, Holland, Eichenberg, Tua, Jackson, Noah Ig, Hunt, Davis, and Wilkins are the 1st and 2nd round picks from the past three years. You're saying every single one of them are a bust?

    If so, you're really not being objective here.
     
  36. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I think 50% of them were overpicked, and at least three have underperformed.
     
  37. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Keyfin we’re cherry picking here now. Outside the first drive of the season we suck. I don’t know the issue honestly but we’re not even competitive anymore 4 games in 5 this weekend and I believe we get wrecked bad again like 35-10ish.

    not going to defend this **** show anymore. If we came out fighting and showed in each game we had some fight maybe I’d feel better.

    If Brissett is the problem fix it let’s try the rookie he can’t do worse we completely suck
     
  38. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Brissett is absolutely terrible. Probably worse than the variety of QBs that we had in years like 2004 and 2007, and that's saying something. He not only looks like he's moving in slow motion on the field, he also is seemingly afraid to throw the football.

    We have signifigant issues on the OL. Its a lot worse than I expected it to be.

    We have one of the very worst running games/stable of RBs in the league.

    We very likely have one of the worst offensive coaching staffs in the league.

    But other than that, things are great! :001_rolleyes:
     
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  39. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I mean, there's several issues:

    1) No Tua. Brissett is not on the same level in this particular offense because the offensive line is horrible and Tua's mega-fast release makes a huge difference. We desperately need Tua back.

    2) The play calling combined with Brissett....he frequently passes on the 1st man open with the quick, easy throw. Tua throws that short pass every time and picks up a few yards. It kind of reminds me of Chad Henne trying to run Pennington's offense (touch passes from a strong-armed QB). It didn't work then either. On top of that though, Brissett is making some lousy reads and not opting out of plays when the defense is ready for it. He's a massive liability to be honest. He is playing hard and doing what he can out there but it's not enough.

    3) The offensive line...damn. It's the worst we've had in a long time, but they're also super young. The story of this season is surviving their growth.

    4) The defense is pretty legit- it's been a ballgame every time going into the half. But we're getting dominated in time of possession and they're constantly on the field; even when they get off the field, they're right back on again after a failed offensive series.

    5) Dumb penalties this season have led to opponents scoring when they were on the verge of punting. We're not used to that on a Flores team.

    What can we fix this week? Definitely #5- bench Jackson and his continual holds go away. Then just stress discipline throughout practice....we can't shoot ourselves in the foot.

    To fix #4, you have to fix #'s 1, 2, and 3. The defense is playing solid football and the offense is completely failing them. And again, this whole roster on offense was built around Tua's quick arm and pin-point accuracy. You can't completely fix the line in a week either, so your only option is catering the offense to Brissett as much as possible.

    In my opinion, Indy was Brissett's worst game of the three, and that would definitely fall on coaching as well. They just have to figure it out and tighten it up in a hurry.
     
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