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Flores is exposed

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Oct 10, 2021.

  1. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Just heard Big O echo what I was getting at:

    - Last year, Flo put in a QB who wasn’t ready to play.

    - Guys that aren’t improving? On Flo.

    - Stars that aren’t playing to their level? On Flo .

    - Jones not playing well? On Flo

    - X not playing well? On Flo

    - Baker not playing well? On Flo

    - Run D? On Flo
     
    resnor likes this.
  2. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Who says we haven't got good players? Maybe they're just poorly coached, we seem to lack that on every level as evidenced by our OL.
     
  3. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    That would be the hope. They have talent but how much? How many of these draft picks the last three years can you point to as above average for their position. Even with poor coaching you should still see the talent.
     
    hitman8 likes this.
  4. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    And people are crazy if they don't think Flores let that info about Herbert get out there. Flores covering his *** is good for Flores but not for the Dolphins.
     
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  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Except that we had the reverse last year.

    Guys improving. On Flo.
    Stars playing at or above their level. On Flo.
    etc. etc.

    As for putting Tua in when he wasn't ready, we don't know that was Flo. In fact, there's good reason to suspect Flo's hand was forced.

    Maybe it wasn't, we don't know for sure - but that's important.

    As for the rest, experienced veterans cut? On Grier.
    Relying on young draft picks? On Grier.

    Could the result be greater than the sum of the parts? If so, then these cuts could well undermine everything.
    Worse secondary? Could it be due, at least in part, to a worse linebacker corp? Worse DL?
    We cut team captain Van Noy, McKinney etc.
    Worse OL? We cut Flowers and Karras and put in the young guys.

    That's all on Grier.

    New, inexperienced OC's raised from within. Could that be on Grier too?

    If so, he has results in a 'brain drain' where we shipped off lots of experience and wisdom that helped hold this team together and which also set back any development plan because the time spent training this young team has, in part, be traded away. And then you bring in new, inexperienced guys, who will coach differently.

    So I'm not buying this is all on Flo.

    The reality is, we don't know how much is on Flo. But whoever was behind forcing Tua in early without telling the OC at the time, whoever was behind cutting all the vets after a year, especially during a rebuild. That guy, or those guys, need to answer.
     
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  6. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, I am not giving Flo a complete pass, but I definitely think Grier is the single biggest problem with the organization right now.
     
    mlb1399 likes this.
  7. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Why is it all on Grier? The same story that said Flores wanted Herbert said this

    So how do we know that isn't what Flores wanted?
     
  8. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    I find this very hard to believe, at least where it concerns the players, who played their butts off for him the last 2 years. Like hitman said, it sounds like Tua’s people are going after Flo’s people for letting it be known he wanted Herbert. Either way, it’s becoming a colossal mess. Dysfunction isn’t exactly a recipe for success.
     
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  9. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    It wont be Cowher that this team goes after. He's way too out of touch to get back into it. I still say all of this is a big overreaction. This certainly has not been pretty, but we're still a ways away from a tear down. What exactly are we tearing down? This team is incredibly young! X and Jones are like the oldest guys on this team. I'm personally ready to move on from Baker, but other than that, this defense is especially young. Hell to O line is all first and second year guys. Oh wait, Dieter is in his third year and Jesse Davis was signed off the street. Is another youth movement suggested here? I don't see it. We are already IN a youth movement. So it really makes no sense to tear the actual roster down. We don't really know what we have with a lot of these guys yet because they are still so young. We can make front office and coaching changes, sure...But that's really it. The only thing that should be tore down is the culture of this team and WE JUST DID THAT a little over two years ago!
     
  10. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Of course.
    I never said nor implied that it was all on Flo. I have been calling for Grier to be shown the door head first. The thing is that Flo has been a bit shielded from the criticisms and for some of the reasons I just listed, he certainly now appears to be part of the problem. He certainly can’t get a free pass now. Yeah. It sucks, but it is certainly true. It is a total dung show. Sucks
     
    JJ_79 likes this.
  11. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    All? I don't know, and didn't say, that everything was on Grier. But those things I listed - those are Grier's job. Trades, cuts, drafts, that's on him because he's the GM. If Flores pushed for it then it's on Flores too, but it is at least on Grier.
     
  12. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    We screwed up not showing loyalty to the veteran players on this team that helped us achieve a 10-6 record last year. Van Noy, Flowers, we axed Mckinney this year before we even got a chance to see what we could do. Shaq Lawson was another one we should have kept around. No...We screwed up big time not bringing back some of those guys. All of them still had a lot left to give to a team. I can't speak for Mkinney, but Flowers, Van Noy, and Lawson were all epic losses for us. Look at where we're suffering the most and it's because those guys are not here anymore.
     
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  13. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    The reason I am going somewhat lighter on Flo than Grier is twofold. First, you can only do so much with coaching when your players and staff keep getting changed. That's time invested and systems set up that are wasted.

    Second, there seems to be something dodgy going on behind the scenes. I've said it before, but the whole scenario with Tua last year, and Gailey, just isn't right. Something was off there, and it seems least likely that it was Flo and more likely someone else - Ross or Grier or both. That being the case, Flo could, possibly, but stuck in a horrible situation. He's not going to be perfect, but that's why I'm lighter on him than Grier.

    It may be moot, however. If Grier goes and a new GM comes in, Flo's time may be up anyway. Then again, Ross has set up some horrible leadership structures in the past, he might just do it again.
     
    hitman8 likes this.
  14. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    This.
     
  15. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    And I will say it again it doesn't make sense to hire Gailey. Either he hired a coordinator who was a bad choice for Tua or he hired a coordinator with no consideration for Tua because he didn't want him. Its a bad situation no matter what.

    There should be no need to speculate on conspiracies because its a coach who shouldn't had the job. And he followed a coordinator the year before that either also shouldn't have had the job or shouldn't have been fired.
     
  16. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    We're 1-4 and every time we play a top-tier team, a team that made it deep into the playoffs, they blow our doors off. That's in year THREE of Flores' rebuild. Sorry, that's not acceptable. If it's three years in and you're a defensive guru and your defense folds like a cheap suit at the first sniff of a real offense, then you need to go.
     
  17. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    So how long is a rebuild supposed to take 5-10 years..
    After 3 years this might be a top 3 worst team in the NFL.!After 3 years u should be at least contending for a wildcard not contending for last place.
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  18. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    We contended for a wild card last year. Clearly we’ve made a step back this year but we’re young and I think we need to see this and next season play out. Then the evaluation is done. He’s fired or the guy. We need to show that we’re willing to give coaches time.
     
  19. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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  20. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Not a chance in hell. He's not getting four full seasons as a tryout. If this season goes the way it's looking, he's done and deservedly so. He made a GIANT step back and it's entirely his fault and Grier's, because they got rid of the talent that got us that 10-6 record last season.
     
  21. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Hit man…Herbert does not play for the Dolphins. It doesn’t matter what he does
     
  22. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    What do u mean?We have a young team be patient!
     
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  23. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    This was the toughest part of our schedule. I had us going 2-3. It’s sucks that we’re getting blown out by Buf and TB but I didn’t think we were anywhere close to them anyways. I want to see how this plays out before I move on from Flores and I don’t want to shoot ourselves in the foot for any future coaches.

    Grier on the other hand has made bad decision after bad decision and it’s definitely holding our team back. He’s whiffed on too many 1st round picks and missed out on a franchise QB. Tua might end up being serviceable but you can’t trust him to stay healthy and he’s not elite.

    If we had drafted a different QB, this team would likely be 3-2.
     
    JJ_79 likes this.
  24. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Yea and why is that?Because dolphins do nothing but make bad decisions!Proof is 20 year without a playoff win.!No Qb since Marino!!!!!!
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  25. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Again, Herbert doesn’t play for the Dolphins. Herbert doesn’t play for 31 of the other teams in the league either so what he does doesn’t mean diddly to the Dolphins. What the Miami Dolphins do matters to the Miami Dolphins.

    And to play devils advocate, does anyone truly believe that if Herbert did play for Miami that he would make any difference…behind THIS offensive line? Really?
     
  26. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    First of all, it's not the losses, it's the way our defense, which is supposedly Flores' strongsuit, got embarrassed.
    And second it doesn't matter what you or I want, it's what Ross wants. And I don't see him giving Flores four seasons.
     
  27. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    We win the Las Vegas game if either Tua is healthy or we have Herbert. One of them is healthy. I don’t think it matters against TB or Buf. But I also think we win the Indy game.

    That’s difference between playoffs and missing out or worse.
     
    JJ_79 likes this.
  28. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Once again we took took the wrong QB and ur to blind to see it.
    Last year Herbert's offensive line was ranked either 28 or 32nd by any numerous football outlets.And yet he was rookie of the year.
    So keep smoking ur weed because nobody except the annoying homers or bama fans will ever admitt it.
    And you know deep down u would be jumping for joy if we had Herbert over the small cripple!
    Everybody in the country knows we ****ed up taking Tua!
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  29. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes it does, it's a direct reflection of how stupid our drafting and personnel decisions are, and why Grier should be fired ASAP.
     
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  30. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    For the THIRD time, Justin Herbert plays for the San Diego Chargers. It doesn’t matter. If he throws for 1000 yards and 20 touchdowns a game, that doesn’t help the Dolphins.
     
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  31. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    It depends on how the rest of the season plays out. If we only win 0-4 more games, then you’re probably right.

    If it’s 5-6 games, then they have some explaining to do. Cutting veterans who would have helped us, drafting the wrong QB contributes to that and you blame Grier.

    If we win 7-9(doesn’t seem likely), then this about where we thought we’d be.

    We’ve got NYJ(2) Atl, NYG and Jax which I think we’ll win. No chance we beat Buffalo and Baltimore doesn’t seem likely. Then it comes down to how you play against Ten, NO, Car and NE. We’ve already beaten one of those teams on the road.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
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  32. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Pretty dumb statement that dude made but typical!
    I guess some people are content with failure year after year and I will never understand that mentality.
     
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  33. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    If it you were talking about burrow it would make sense what you are saying.
    Miami had Herbert sitting there and passed for the lesser talent.We have every right to second guess this regime so wake the **** up!.
     
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  34. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Wow, you're being a borderline A hole at this point. You should really go back and look at what you've written. Listen to yourself. You sound like a really miserable person there "Pumpdog." I don't even know why i'm responding to you at this point. "Pumpdog", yeah...the name says it all.
     
  35. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Don't really recall asking for your opinion!
     
  36. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Worth pointing out that in an 17 game season with 14 playoff teams out of 32, a 9-8 record translates to about a 50% chance of making the playoffs. An 8-9 record represents only an 11% chance. A 7-10 record a 1% chance.

    The way I see it, if after year 3 we end up 7-10 or worse with a 1% or worse probability of making the playoffs that should lead to the automatic firing of everyone and starting over. If after year 3 we're at 8-9 and an 11% chance, then wholesale changes MUST be made even if that doesn't mean firing everyone. This board seems to agree on firing Grier at least.

    As far as I'm concerned, even after a 1-4 start Flores HAS to get to 9-8 at least or there's something wrong here. Year 3 of a rebuild should at very minimum produce a 50/50 playoff team, and that's probably lowballing it given that most HoF coaches (most = majority, not overwhelming majority) produce a consistent winner and make the playoffs by year 3.

    Anyway, Jacksonville and Atlanta are essentially must-wins, and also must-play-well games for Tua. We need to see progress, and soon.
     
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  37. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    We won't beat Atlanta. We won't be able to defend against their passing game. We won't beat any of the last four teams you listed playing the way we are now on defense. I can't see the Fins winning more than 4 games this season.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  38. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.

    The offensive line played better today. Anxious to get Tua back out there.
     
  39. Alan in England

    Alan in England Active Member

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    lose in London and Flores has to go.
     
  40. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I swear to God I must be speaking Swahili or Klingon. I guess I have to spell it out in crayon.

    It doesn’t matter what Justin Herbert is doing. Why? Because the CHARGERS have a more well rounded offensive unit than the Dolphins. Their offensive coaching staff and their stout offensive line is why Herbert is succeeding and Tagovailoa/Brissett are lagging.

    This season alone, Herbert has been sacked less than twice per game. Brissett thus far is being sacked 3 times per game. Hard to make significant passes when you’re running for your life and on your back

    Secondly, because Herbert has that stout line protecting him and the overall offensive scheme, he’s able to average almost 8 yards per pass because he has the time to push the ball downfield. Our offensive scheme and pours line is only allowing Brissett to average about 5 yards per pass.

    Switch Herbert with Tagovailoa and you would be screaming how we screwed up drafting Herbert. If you don’t believe this, then you truly don’t know the game of football
     

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