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Thoughts on the Dolphins/Jags Game

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Oct 17, 2021.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I know people here will be in "fire everyone" mode for a few days, so I figured I'd get this one in here early before the site becomes unbearable. There were actually a lot of positives this week to talk about.

    First and foremost, Tua looked excellent today with back-up receivers. Where have we heard that before? It's crazy that this was his 12th start and he's had exactly one game with starting wide receivers. No Parker, no Fuller, no Williams and Grant traded. As usual, Gisecki, Hollins and Waddle all looked good as well.

    More importantly, the offensive line looked competent today- not "great", but competent. Tua had pretty good protection all afternoon and was ultimately let down by some key drops. He did have one pick on a pass that he didn't get enough air under, but otherwise it was a pretty good offensive showing. At this point, I would trade Williams, Parker and Fuller...it's pointless to keep starting receivers that never actually get to play.

    On defense...well, it wasn't a spectacular day. Both our corners were out and for the most part, our defense played tough the majority of the time and then would give up huge yardage on a blown play. Iggy looked "eh"....he had several good breakups and also a few where he looked completely lost out there. The deep pass in the 4th quarter was perplexing- he had perfect coverage, perfect position, looked back towards the throw but somehow never saw it in the air...no idea what happened there.

    The problem today was exactly the same as the Colts game- we drove all over that field but couldn't find the end-zone. It's frustrating as can be because we really dominated this game but once we hit the red-zone, drives just died out. They have to fix that quickly and I believe the problem is consistency- we can't keep the same players on the field from week to week.

    I won't say Jones, Parker, Williams, Fuller and Howard were all healthy scratches since they were definitely nursing injuries, but I think we expected to go in any walk all over Jax without them so we gave people the week off to heal up. It clearly backfired though and we lost in spectacular fashion.

    Let's talk about a few specific plays that changed the game-

    • The punt that we challenged over the receiver potentially touching it- I really think it brushed his finger and that was a Miami TD.
    • The 3rd and 1 we brought Brissett in for; I don't like that at all. Yes, it was a 20+ yard gain on a neat gimmick play, but Tua needs to stay on the field and command the offense in those situations.
    • The 4th and 1 we went for at the end of the game was ultimately why we lost. Punt that football and settle it in overtime. With that said, however, we got a terrible spot of that football. Maybe we had the 1st down, maybe not....it was closer than that spot though.
    • Jax going for it on 4th and 6 with five second left was an impressive, gutsy play. However, it bothered me that there wasn't a booth review of the play-clock. It looked to me like the game was over. Actually, there were a few plays I think should have been reviewed in those final 2 minutes.
    • The two 4th quarter field goals by a kid off the street made me smile. Good for Jax breaking a 20-game losing streak in epic fashion. But I do think they got a lot of help from the refs at the end there, and it's Miami's fault for settling for field goals (and missing one) early in the game.
    What's all this mean? I honestly don't know- we lost to the worst team in the league. Even with key starters out, we were still clearly the better team for all four quarters. But we had lousy play-calling down the stretch, lousy execution on dropped passes, and we just didn't do enough to overcome the Jags and the refs.

    One big positive though- as soon as we took the 3-point lead, the defense went into cover zero and they were a lot more fun to watch. I can still see a dominant defense but we have to have the lead to make it all work. Playing from behind opens the opponent's entire playbook and it forces us into vanilla coverage, so the big takeaway here is that those long, dominant drives by our offense need to end with TD's.

    Folks, we completely gave this game away despite improvements all the way around. I don't know what else to say- it's going to be an extremely long season and it's not from lack of talent. Our second string kicked Jax's butt but still couldn't get the win somehow.
     
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  2. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Fire everyone
     
  3. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    There is no excuse for the losses we've had this season. Three years is long enough to rebuild. Flores and Grier need to be gone.
     
  4. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

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    Fire all of them.
     
  5. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    We averaged 3.9 YPC against one of the worst defenses in the nfl today. We couldn’t establish the run and weren’t able to run when it mattered. As a result, we had to throw the ball 47 times. Not sure I’m willing to say the OL looked decent.
     
  6. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Any positives you can get out of this game have to be tempered by the fact that we were playing Jacksonville, who has lost 21 straight games, and they were also dealing with several injuries.

    So no, fire everyone is still the best course of action at this point.
     
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  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    We tried to run, what, five or six times total? You can't fault the run for not working when you never actually try to run the ball. And guess where almost every single run went? Off guard to the right side. No sweeps, nothing exotic....just the most basic run play you learn in football.
     
  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Had we tried to run the ball more the result would have been worse. Only positive today was Tua, nothing else. There's no excuses for the OCs, Flores, Grier etc. This is year 3 and we've seen too many accumulated bad decisions.
     
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  9. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I knew someone would post this thread and I usually like all of your stuff but there is no defending this team not today not now they are a complete un objectional failure they have no heart they have no leader they have no coaching they have no GM and now they’re losing the fans and the team even if they win their next few games The wheels have fallen off the bus there’s no coming back from this two weeks in a Close proximity we lost to Indianapolis who sucks and now to a team who hasn’t won the last 21 games we barely won the New England game or we’d be oh and five this team deserves no credit nor breaks they haven’t earned it they should all be replaced and I’m sticking to that this season is over trade away everyone you can now and get some draft capital since our GM screwed up our draft already
     
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  10. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    If you can’t block the normal runs effectively I don’t believe exotic plays are going to change that. It’s a good point about not running more
     
  11. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Going against what was supposed to be the WORST team in the NFL? You have to temper any positives knowing they played a bad team, with a bad coach, and LOST! On a neutral field no less!! I hope we can pull out a win versus the Jest or the Falcons, but those are coin flip games at best now.

    That said, Tua was good for a game where he was shaking off the rust, minus that really bad INT throw. Tua couldn't do enough to win it, and just enough bad to help lose the game.
     
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  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    So why watch at all anymore? It sounds like you're officially checked-out for the season. I try to be objective listing the good/bad each week and I'm not going to stop because this team is in crisis-mode. We need a whole lot to turn this around but personally, I don't think "fire everyone" and start over from scratch is a viable path.

    I mean, we've done that for what...the past 15 years? What's the point? If we fire Flores/Grier, then we're trading away Howard, Jones, Parker, Gisecki and basically anyone worth a darn. We'll probably keep Tua, gut the line, gut the defense and we'll be way worse off than when this entire rebuild even started. We don't have our own 1st rounder next season either, which means no sane head coach will want to take over.

    So what does "fire everyone" get us other than a guaranteed five more years of mediocre football?

    I'm not down for that path- it's more self-destructive than anything. Keep Flores, fire Grier and lose the "youth movement" that we've taken too far. Bring in some vets before the trade deadline and salvage what we can of the season. We can't install a new offense mid-season though so I don't see any benefit to firing Flores or offensive coordinators today. The rest of the year has to be about Tua and making him comfortable in this offense.
     
  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I'm not "defending" anything- we just lost to the worst team in the league! But I was trying to be objective on why we lost.
     
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  14. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

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    Nothing personal but your take was objectively bad. Just sounds like a list of poor excuses.
     
  15. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Serious question, do you want to see Grier run(ruin) another draft and off-season?
     
  16. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Doesn't matter if they fire everyone as long as Ross is the owner.

    Sell the team!
     
  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely not- I think he's a bigger problem than just the people we're drafting. I said to fire Grier in my reply to you.

    But then the question becomes, who do you hire? Not another "we found the best possible candidate from within BS". But that's what happened last time; multiple people turned down the job in Miami and we settled on a snake-oil salesman. And with our employee turnover, our wasting draft picks on projects and not even having our own 1st rounder next season, who's going to want to take the helm? Not anyone with an upward trajectory, I can promise you that.

    I mean, we had to give Flores a 5-year contract guarantee to sign him...and he's a 1st time NFL coach. That's insanity and speaks to how desperately people did not want to work for Ross in Miami. So while I agree with you on firing the guy, we absolutely have to have the right person lined up to take over the role.
     
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  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    What does it matter? Ross will hire someone worse. Might as well stick with the devil you know.
     
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    If it's just bad philosophy on the picks, then I agree...keep him and force the guy to stop drafting long-term prospects. But if Grier is the reason we lost Gailey and Fitz after a 10-win season with everything going right, then he's a cancer that has to be ejected from the building.

    I don't know how deep the problems with Grier actually go, but I'm willing to bet that he's made Flores's job a heck of a lot harder than it had to be. And if that's the case, I'd keep Flores for a year under a new GM.
     
  20. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    That’s the heart of the problem. There’s so much dysfunction on this team that it’s hard to pinpoint. All I know is Ross is the one constant and Grier is very, very bad.
     
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  21. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    If the new GM wants him but Flores is more then on the hot seat after today...
     
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  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Fitz and Gailey were cancers. Grier's first mistake was signing Fitz. Gailey was a bad hire by Flores.
     
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  23. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Are you really thinking they should brought back Fitz and made him the starter?
     
  24. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Fitzpatrick on this team wouldnt make a difference… the talent is below average… fitzpatrick is also below average.. we need a complete overhaul, no more retooling, a complete rebuild.

    I said it a few years ago when we got rich after the Tunsil trade (lol rich, we wasted every pick), those picks will set us up for the next decade or set us back, we have to get it right, especially since New England’s run was near the end. and we should have hired someone that can get it right, like Ozzie Newsome. We got it completely wrong on every draft since that trade.

    right now the patriots look like they are steps ahead of us already.. we whiffed.
     
  25. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I mean, we won 10 games with a gutted roster, a terrible line and not a starting WR in sight. The offense wasn't awesome by any means last year, but they were doing something right.
     
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  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Fitz was who he was. Miami was winning in spite of him some games and because of him others. Fitz was not playing well for the Dolphins despite what people like to believe.

    Miami won 10 games last year because they lead the league in 3rd down percentage on defense and turnovers. The reason why they are losing this season is because they are not generating the turnovers and are the worst 3rd down percentage team in the NFL.

    I have no idea how Fitz got this much love on this board. He did have that one game where he picked on a cornerback who should not have been on the field. The rest of the time he sank or swim and he mostly sank.
     
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  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    No, start Tua, but keep Fitz to work with Tua since they had a great relationship and you still have a backup that can win games. I don't think anyone here would say Brissett is better than Fitz.

    The other side of that is the leadership though that Fitz brought to the locker room, to the sideline, etc. We literally traded away all of our veteran leaders going into this season and that's proving to be a massive mistake. Believe it or not, some players have big impacts off the field for your team as well.
     
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  28. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Why would Fitz want to come back up Tua instead of going to start in Washington?
     
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  29. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Fair point but I think the thing how Tua was forced into action has a lot to do with what we have now. The only hope would have been that Tua is Herbert and even then I think we would have f‘ed it up somehow…
     
  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Because during the last two seasons, he said that this was the most fun he's ever had in the NFL and he loved the coaching staff, his teammates, etc. Then out of nowhere, he was benched and those feelings quickly changed. The guy was clearly blindsided and it really looks like it wasn't Flores...that's the day this team first showed a massive problem behind the scenes. We just didn't notice at the time because we were winning.

    If last season had played out a little differently, I think Fitz would have been eager to return. But someone inside the organization clearly didn't see his value. I mean, you have to realize, there were no wins during the rebuild without him...his grit and leadership were a massive part of it. You don't just crap on a player like that, regardless of how talented or untalented you think he might be.
     
  31. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Are we really bringing up Fitzpatrick again?
     
  32. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I don't see him turning down an opportunity to start

    And it doesn't look like it wasn't Flores any more than it looks like it was Flores. We have no idea how it happened no matter how much fan fiction we try to make fact.
     
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Look back at the press conference when Flores announced it any any other press conference from that season. His entire demeanor was different and it was one of the only times he didn't say "the best player will start on my team." He said "we've" been evaluating on a week to week basis and "we" think Tua is ready.

    Clearly he wasn't though- everyone knows that. Heck, Tua knew it!
     
  34. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    That is a stretch. Fact is we don't know.
     
  35. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    We might take one from the Jets. But we're losing to Atlanta.
     
  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying it's "proof", but Flores is usually a straight-up kind of guy with the media. That day he certainly wasn't.
     
  37. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Key…. I appreciate it but I can’t go along with it.

    All I can think about is we played a team with the 28th ranked D in the league that was missing two key guys Jack being one of them and we still sputtered away on offense.

    I expected the D to be hashed a bit without Howard and Jones. But the way they lost this game is inexcusable.

    I can’t sit here and think oh, it’s ok. We were in it. Couple plays go our way we win. We’ve been saying and thinking that for years and IMO that’s the reason this team never gets better. Everyone always thinks we’re better than we are. Not just the fans but the FO as well it appears.

    I chalk it up to the one remaining consistent presence over the last 10-15 years and that’s Chris Grier. He’s botched the rebuild massively and we’re screwed for this year as well because he tried getting cute on the draft and traded away our own #1.

    so I can’t take away moral victories anymore from this team. Can’t do it. We overachieved last year and so I expected a drop off a bit this year. It this isnt a drop off; this is going right off the damn cliff. Actually…. We’re already over the cliff and plummeting to a fiery demise below.

    There are no positives to take from losing to a team that lost 20+ straight games, with the 28th ranked D (missing key guys) and a mediocre O coming off a week of distractions with their head coach at a game in London. I won’t allow myself to see the positives here. There are none worth taking about. The few that may exist just aren’t worth talking about because it’s just lipstick on the pig at this point.

    Chris Grier should be fired on the plane home and leave the fate of Flores up to whoever the new gm is.
     
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  38. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I agree 100 percent!
    Flat out embarrassing!
     
  39. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    My man, I completely agree- wasn't aiming for moral victories there at all. We had a dozen different ways to win that game or even make it a blowout and we just didn't execute.

    But even with all that said, we still have another game a week from now that the team has to prepare for. So what went wrong? (almost everything) What went right? (Tua, Gisecki, Hollins, Waddle) What can we fix in a week? (I don't know- maybe figure out how to have your starters actually start?!?) I've done that for every game for the past 7+ years, so I wasn't going to change today since the worst team in the league embarrassed us.

    Like I said, I actually laughed when they made the final field goal and I was happy for the Jags in the moment. That's how displaced our fanbase is right now; it's past the point of being emotionally invested for me. This team is rotten from the inside out and it all starts with the phrase "perennial playoff contender". I can't change that though. So I watch the games, get excited for the TD's and then I tune in to see what the Titans are doing.

    I've been a die-hard lifelong fan and I still love this team as much as ever, but I decided this year that I don't owe them anything. They're not entitled to my anger or sadness anymore- they just don't deserve it. That's the only way I stay objective.
     
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  40. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Key is almost always a voice of reason around here and this post was no different. There's always a lot of good that you can take away from a game and that's usually how I try and do it. Find the moral victories and build off of them. Tua showed promise, Phillips, Wilkins, Waddle, Mike G.....I liked what I saw from these guys. Noah I officially finally had his shot at playing time and he was burned like toast all day by Marvin Jones. While there are some positives to todays game (mainly being that Tua didn't Shat the bed), there's way too much for me to be angry over at the moment. The season is done and the focus should be on growth and development from here on out. Right now, the axe comes down hard on Chris Grier, but maybe this team has a plan? I don't know, it sure doesn't look like it.
     
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