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Thoughts on Dolphins-Bills II

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Oct 31, 2021.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a whole lot to say today other than the game was much closer than the score indicated. Our defense shut down the Bills for the better part of three quarters and our offense moved the ball fine, but couldn't find ways to score. This was a very frustrating loss because we actually looked like the better team for the majority of the day (a theme of the Fins lately). This might have been the best this defense has looked all year long.

    For Tua and the offense, I'm running out of things to say. He's still throwing highly accurate strikes, still getting very little protection, and still having receivers drop key passes. I was focusing on our route concepts on the replays today and the majority of our receivers are out there jogging through routes, not making separation and not really trying until the ball is in the air.

    On Tua's sole pick, three of the four receivers were flat-footed watching the play- Parker did run it down from the other side of the field, and I honestly think that's the only time he ran all-out on the day. It was just really disappointing since they're not doing Tua and favors out there- I think Gisecki is the only one left that actually wants to play. We couldn't even get guys to line up correctly with Tua and Gisecki directing traffic.

    Another pathetic loss that easily could have been a win with a little more production on offense- I really don't have the answer here other than emptying the WR room and bringing in UDFA's. Ford wasn't even playing hard like he usually does today- and he's barely clinging to a roster spot. Williams didn't even make the trip for disciplinary reasons. The offense is just toxic at the moment with plenty of talent and very little execution.

    Side note- the refs called a very strange game today. Was it just me or was there pass interference on just about every single play for both teams? The flags just weren't being thrown and Gisecki was so frustrated, he was chucking defenders with the ball in the air towards the end there.

    The only other positive today- the Titans won in overtime! So at least our alt-team seems to be cruising to the playoffs this season.
     
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  2. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    How did our rookies look today?
     
  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    • Waddle had one drop I think? Played decent but wasn't targeted much. He was also held on a 3rd and long that wasn't called.
    • Phillips had a pretty solid game between getting after Allen and playing run support. He's turning out to be impressive.
    • Holland was also in on the run-stuffing and had a few good plays, but I'd really have to watch tape to say how well he did overall. It's harder to watch safeties in real-time.
    • Eichenberg held his own- not a great day and did have one offsides. He's not dominating out there but the kid's a scrapper and making a high effort. I feel like he's above average for a rookie and hoping we see growth year 2-3.
    • Pretty sure Long and Doaks didn't play. I saw Coleman on the field once or twice, but didn't see enough to comment on him
     
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  4. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Only positive thing today was the defense for the first half of the game, then they fell apart Dolphins style. Worst thing to see was all the penalties and the offense not being able to get lined up. That's purely on the coaches. Tua was OK, basically average against the best pass defense in the NFL. On average the Bills have given up a 62.1 passer rating, and Tua's 58.2 fits right in. Individual game ratings can be misleading but these are mostly fair. Tua was average against the best pass defense in the NFL, but below average in absolute terms.

    What else to say? Crappy season with little hope for meaningful change. On to the 1-7 Texans to decide who the 2nd worst team in the NFL is after the 0-8 Lions. We're even worse than the Jets!**
     
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  5. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Oline is just killing this team week in and out. I saw the left tackle on multiple successive plays look like a turn style. The defender was in the backfield before TUA had the ball!

    until we get a decent nfl line it doesn’t matter the QB. Tua is still a rookie and learning I’m not hating on him he has some issues but we just are not helping him without a line
     
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  6. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    Tua is not a deep threat so the DBS are jumping the routes and fighting harder for the ball then our receivers.
     
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  7. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Key, he was a no show today. 12 Tgts 4 rec for 29 yards and 7.3 avg. He‘s a Rookie but I still don‘t understand how you could invest a top 10 pick plus change for him.
    For the others didn’t see much of Phillips, Eichenberg had a tough day and Holland really seems like he is something.
     
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  8. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    That trade to 6 to draft Waddle might be the dumbest move Grier has made. And that’s saying something because the list is LONG.
     
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  9. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It was an interesting game today. Didn't at all go how I thought it would. I thought we would be in for another blowout. Defense was playing really well in the first half. Offense wasn't all that bad early on either all things considered. Second half though different story; they adjusted and ultimately ended up dominating us down the stretch and we... well we just played like Miami.

    I continue to see things with Tua that are encouraging but he's got alot of work to do still too. His ball placement again today I thought was very good. His pocket presence and movement within it and escaping it was also good today. He does a nice job currently of extending plays which is pretty surprising given this OL. The WR's continue to be a problem. I don't agree with anyone who says we have a ton of talent on offense; we don't. Devante Parker is a starter on another team, but he's not a #1. He's too inconsistent, injury prone and drops too many easy passes. Waddle I think is a top talent, but we can't maximize his ability due to our awful OL so he's stuck catching short passes and hoping for YAC. After that because Fuller can't stay on the field either we just have a bunch of nobodies. Our RB's aren't anything special either. Yet again; the Miami Dolphins find themselves unable to develop a young QB properly due to the failures of having good players around him. I'm not even asking for top talent, I'm just asking for NFL caliber players. Not Preston Williams, Isiah Ford, Albert Wilson or Mack Hollins. Just not good enough.

    As for Tua though since he's all anyone wants to talk about I already said some things earlier that I like. I want to talk about the ball placement more though. He's accurate short and medium. Not much downfield passing today due to the fact we're not good, and are playing the leagues best D. No time to get downfield, and as Key stated just nobody capable of getting open. What I love about Tua right now though is his ball placement. He's consistently throwing it to WR's in the right places to allow them to catch the ball away from the defender and turn and get upfield, or just simply allow them to make a catch away from the defenders reach. You can see he's learned and developed that since last year because I didnt notice it much there. It's a small thing, but it's really not small. Get him some talent at WR, some time to throw behind a decent OL and a capable play caller/OC and I'm not as sour on him as I once was. He's got to clean up the poor decisions, and some of the bad throws he makes from time to time. All in all though, I don't think he's our biggest problem right now, but he's not exactly excelling to the point where you can say he's the guy for the next 10 years or more.

    My biggest Tua issues today though again came around decision making. The one third down play he ran for the first down, he had Laird open for an easy completion and Laird likely gets the first down but instead Tua decided to run, and ended up short of the first down while diving to avoid a hit. Got to learn from that. I didn't like the INT at the end of the game either. It's a moot point since the game was over, but it was 3rd down. No need to heave it up into alot of coverage just yet. Check it down, make 4th down easier. Throw it away to play for fourth down, something other than just heaving it up. It wasn't a good decision IMO since it was just third down and you should know its 4 down territory there. Again, kind of a stupid thing to pick at here but it is what it is. I thought the officials didn't do Tua any favors today either though, There was an awful lot of early contact and grabbing from Buffalo's DB's today that caused alot of incompletions that simply should have been called.

    This team is strange to me. We were 10-6 last year. We won alot of close games last year, this year we're just not closing. I think that's to be expected with as much turnover as we had again, and as young as this team is, with a QB with only 13 career starts. I mean; maybe we as fans were just spoiled with 10 wins last year and our expectations were too high. We're only a couple of plays away from winning at least 3 more games at this point than we have.

    The better team won today; we all know that however I don't think we played all that bad considering the competition and where we are at. That being said though if Flores doesn't make some changes here soon especially on offense he's going to be the change that gets made and as a result his whole staff. At some point self preservation has to kick in here for him; you can be the loyal captain and take the position of going down with the ship and thats admirable in some settings; I don't think professional football is one of them though. You're the leader of this team; step up and do what needs to be done to fix this mess and that starts with firing your incompetent OC's. Never was a doubt, but today there's certainly no doubt in my mind it needs to happen. The pre-snap penalties, the multiple instances of guys not being lined up, early snaps, etc. etc. the list goes on and on, but it just is clearly obvious that the entire unit is unprepared. You've got Tua and Gesicki trying to get guys lined up multiple times today; that's not good. So either the players have checked out, or they're just lost due to poor coaching/preparation. Either way it needs to be solved.

    Next week is Houston. If there are no changes this week and we lose next week to Houston and it results in no changes from Flores then I'm probably throwing in the towel on the rest of the season. If they don't care, why do we?
     
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  10. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Don’t think we can say that in Alabama he was deep balling. I think this OLINE is the problem there is no time for plays to develop.

    Our running game / passing game / production has stepped back this year so blaming TUA is kinda unfair
     
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  11. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    We needed a wholesale WR makeover but essentially have the same turds as last year. We thought signing an oft-injured and suspended WR and using two first rounders on a slot WR would fix everything.

    Just horrendous team design. No consistent playmakers.
     
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  12. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I agree but the Waddle pick was universally praised by every pundit.

    He's just in the wrong offense right now.
     
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  13. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Tua had five seconds to throw and was throwing to wide open guys at Alabama.
     
  14. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To me it's a combination of the OL not providing the time for plays to develop combined with the lack of WR talent on our current roster. We know Parker has consistently struggled to get open. How often do we see him actually open with separation you see from other WR's? It's extremely rare. Parker makes things happen with his size, but he's more often than not in traffic because he struggles to get separation. Waddle is being pigeon holed into being our running game right now essentially because we can't run the ball. He should be a medium to deep threat getting open and creating YAC/RAC yards, but again no time for that to develop. The root of the problem IMO is our OL. We have no running game as a result. We have no play action passing game as a result. We have no intermediate/deep passing game either because of our OL.

    From some of the downfield shots I've seen there's nobody open downfield. Today I've heard people say that he can't/won't throw downfield, or the coaches don't trust him to etc. etc. That's wrong IMO. I think what we're seeing is Tua recognizing he has no time to throw, nobody is getting separation and rather than forcing something he's making the right choice to check it down. That's what happens when you dont have an OL, a running game to keep the D honest, and WR's that can get open. Combine that with the fact this offense is designed around his strengths, short quick passes, RPO, and medium depth passes that should be relying on guys getting open and getting separation to be hit with a well timed accurate pass in space to pick up those YAC yards. That's what Tua is good at IMO and the time isn't there for it to develop, and the talent isnt there to get open IMO and I don't think there's enough arm strength there to go deep regularly especially into coverage.

    They showed a stat today he's at the top of the league in getting rid of the ball at like 2.55 seconds I think it said. That's out of necessity due to our OL, anyone who wants to see deep passes needs to pay attention to that before blaming the QB. There's stuff to pin on Tua for sure, but I dont think that's one thign right now. It's an issue far bigger than him.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    And now he is throwing in 2.55 seconds and still being hit
     
  16. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    We cant even line up properly before a play. Its an all around clown fiesta. No point in even trying to pin it on anyone player. Team is clearly checked out on watson. Entire coaching staff is a joke. Flo in the pressor was talking about us having 10 guys on the field on defense A few times. Like wtf is our coaching staff doing.
     
  17. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Full disclosure - I wanted Herbert on draft day.

    That being said, I see NOTHING that says we should be moving on from Tua at this point. I will go one step further. If we were not under the shadow of Watson, I don't even think that this would be brought up as a possibility.

    I think TexanPhinatic is right when he said that we need a wholesale WR makeover. I think we should keep Waddle and Gesicki and totally rebuild from there.

    We need to spend some serious money on an OL in the offseason. At this point, honestly, I just want solid players. Any good lineman should be perused regardless of position.

    Finally, we need to get an upgrade from Gaskin.
     
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  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The wrong offense of having an offensive line that can't pass block, I agree.
     
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I still care that we're playing hard and I still care when we win.

    But the losses due to dysfunction- like not being able to line up properly to run a play? Yeah, I just don't care about that anymore...it's not my problem and I refuse to get mad over it anymore.

    I've defended Flores as much as possible since day one and honestly, I still think he has the goods to be a solid NFL head coach. But with the roster being gutted over and over and over again for this youth movement that Grier is so committed to...its just an impossible task. Some players are performing at very high levels but it's just not enough.

    My only remaining "goal" this season is not giving Philly the #1 overall pick. I understand why Grier made that move, it was betting on his own team to be better than Philly, but at this point he should be fired over that alone. And since it doesn't look like that's going to happen, all I can say is "Go Titans!" Eventually I'm going to be watching those games instead when they're playing in the same time slot as Miami.
     
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  20. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with not being able to get mad anymore. We have all sat here and watched abysmal seasons. Still with all that this is probably the maddest ive been in a long time. What nfl team cant properly line up before a play like 6 times in one game. Or constantly has the wr running the wrong routes. This is peewee football level stuff and an absolute embarrassment for professional players. I dont care how bad the coaching is. These guys have played football their entire lives.
     
  21. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    This x a million.

    You build a team in the trenches and hope you can land a franchise QB. Their off-season plans replace 2 pass rushers with a rookie transitioning from DE to OLB, replace our 2 best OL with backups and then get 2 super fast receivers that can’t do anything because one can’t stay healthy and we can’t give our QB time/a clean pocket.
     
  22. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Powell, WY

    When's that?
     
  23. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    He doesn't have a big, physical wide receiver on the outside to compliment off of either.

    Please nobody say Devante Parker.
     
  24. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    It will be interesting to see how we do against Hou, NYJ(2) and NYG. More like watching midget wrestling interesting but still interesting. If we don’t win at least 2 of those games, we might have handed Philly the top pick in the draft.
     
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  25. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Detroit will take care of that. I'm thinking Detroit has a good shot at being the first 0-17 team. They'd also make history as the first team to have 2 winless seasons. And Philly looks like it might end up with two top-10 picks next year. lol

    Meanwhile the Dolphins lose in the W/L column AND in draft position. LOLOL
     
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  26. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Fortunately it doesn’t look like there elite Qb prospects in the draft.

    As it stands now, we gave up 2800 points of trade value for 1600, landing a WR who we can’t even utilize because we can’t block. Trading 2 top 10ish picks for 7.5 YPC borders not only moronic but cataclysmic.
     
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  27. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Any Herbert updates? Haven't seen one in a few weeks.
     
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  28. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Waddle would have been fine at our trade down spot, but moving back up to 6 and giving up a first rounder only to have THIS season? Unconscionable from Grier and Flores that they were THIS far off the mark.

    Grier bought into his own "draft shaker" hype and got cute. It needs to cost his job.
     
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  29. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, he’s rated 20 spots higher than your boy. Since Herbert is 12th, that means Tua is….well you can do the math
     
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  30. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I just checked and he's still light years better than tua
     
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  31. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Statistically (for now) Burrow is above average, Herbert is average and Tua is below average.

    After today Burrow's rating is 108 after 246 passing attempts, Herbert's is 94.8 after 281 passing attempts (league average was 94.7 before today), and Tua's is 85.9 after 157 passing attempts.
     
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  32. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Average? No way.
     
  33. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yes. No way. This is a perfect example for why it is foolish to just focus on stats.
     
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  34. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Statistically he's average and he's 10-12 in his career. You must love that 6'6" frame.
     
  35. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Dude, sorry, but you are a total goof and have proven to be wrong time and time again. This is too easy. Smarten up.
     
  36. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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  37. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    The worst? Get out of here!
     
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  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    He. Was. Throwing. To. First. Round. Pick. Receivers. Who routinely were yards behind defenders.

    I watch almost every Alabama game. I was never enamored with Tua, and he was on my favorite college football team.
     
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  39. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm....... Here are the up to date QB rankings. Look at your poor lil fella just above tyrod Taylor. Then look at the superior in every aspect QB that we passed on. Hint..... He's way higher on the list. You must be in lust with that 5'10 frame

    Screenshot_20211101-192835.png
     
  40. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Those are ESPN's proprietary QB rankings and should basically be thrown out if for no other reason than that we don't know how they're calculated. You should look at traditional passer rating (sort by "Rate"):
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing.htm

    Going by rankings (which isn't quite right statistically but so be it for this discussion), Burrow is 6th, Herbert is 17th, and Tua is 24th.
     

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