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Watson Thread (Merged)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Oct 29, 2021.

1. Will Deshaun be a Dolphin today? 2. Do you want him to be?

  1. 1. Yes, Deshaun will be a Dolphin today.

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
  2. 1. NO. Deshaun will NOT be a Dolphin today.

    28 vote(s)
    80.0%
  3. 2. I want Deshaun to be a Dolphin.

    2 vote(s)
    5.7%
  4. 2. I DO NOT want Deshaun to be a Dolphin.

    29 vote(s)
    82.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Yeah nothing says innocence like paying people off
     
  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    To me, that's not fair since there are 10 criminal complaints filed. The burden of proof in these cases always falls on the accuser and if there's no justice to be had, why wouldn't you take a settlement? That's at least some sort of admission of guilt.
     
  3. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    And conversely, nothing says "I was assaulted, I want justice" like accepting cash to go away
     
    Hooligan likes this.
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Settling things by money isn't proof of anything either way. There are real reasons why sincere people would settle for it. That side of things just needs to be left to one side because it can never be definitive.

    If someone is going to be judged at all, let it always be by his or her actions.

    If Watson could be proven innocent and that the encounters were all consensual would I want him as QB? It would change things somewhat, but not completely. I really wonder how a guy like that would do in Miami.

    My bigger issue, though, isn't with Watson per se. It's the Miami organisation. As good as Watson is he couldn't make the Texans a winner, nor will he be able to make the Dolphins a winner without the right coaching and management in place. To pay at least 3 first rounders for him, and to have the risk of him getting in league trouble anyway and missing games? And to have him play under the same front office? I'm not convinced it's the right move.
     
  5. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    That just opens the door to any chick to accuse any high profile individual, just to get a big payday
     
  6. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So much hinges on definitions. Having numerous sexual encounters is not a crime by itself IF it's consensual. A young unmarried athlete with a pocket full of money and a robust sexual appetite might turn off some people but, it's not illegal and, not necessarily a sign of a predator. It all hinges on the definition of "massage therapist". Robert Kraft interacted with massage therapists and the NFL didn't bat an eye. No lawyers got involved so, there was no crime and no victims.
    When I worked in Alaska I became familiar with the folklore surrounding the building of the Alaska Pipeline. One of the legends surrounded the attractive wife of one of the workers who was a massage therapist on the side and made millions. Again, no lawyers were involved and the only victims were the poor bumpkins who paid way too much for their massages. Now, would this loving couple be welcomed into your neighborhood as neighbors? Probably not if you knew the history or, maybe no big deal. So much hinges on definitions.
    Get a lawyer involved and definitions get skewed and victims come pouring out of the woodwork.
    I'm personally not offended by Watson's recent history but, that's just me. Others can decide for themselves what they're comfortable with. I worked for 23 years as an officer in the Merchant Marine and in that time visited many ports in 2nd and 3rd world countries. When you had time off for a cold beer the bars closest to the port gates were frequented by very friendly young ladies making a living out of necessity. Back then, for 10 dollars you could spend the night with the girls that used to turn you down in high school. Some of the crewmembers took full advantage of what they considered a "good thing" and just ate it up, so to speak. Now, I didn't but, I loved to talk to them about their lives and their children and, in many cases their children would be just outside hanging out on the sidewalk with other children. Like Keyfin says women must always be treated with respect. I would buy them drinks and often gave them money for their company and their time and for their children. It was a little slice of home away from home. The crewmembers that paid for sex could be considered predators by some. They were definitely taking advantage yet, there were no victims here. The girls were getting paid what they asked and the crewmembers were paying. Back on the ship I would work with them as normal.
    Watson went from a life of little money to a life of having millions in a very short time. It's expected that there would be awkward growing pains. Only the presence of a lawyer turned that into a crime. None of the ladies filed complaints until the lawyer got involved.
    If Watson had paid the 6 figure price demanded at first we wouldn't be having this conversation and would only be debating the three 1st round picks.
     
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  7. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    How much could they increase their demands if they already wanted 3 firsts and 2 seconds?
     
  8. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    You are talking about what we assume is consensual sex across the board there. That isn't what is happening with Watson. He isn't being accused of paying for a prostitute or a happy ending like Robert Kraft. If that was the case he would be on Dolphins already most likely.
     
  9. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Once again, none of the ladies were offended enough to complain until a lawyer got involved.
     
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  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    yup, what a sad world we live in that a lady has to feel protected enough by a lawyer to come forward.
     
  11. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A pocket full of Benjamins makes a lot of those anxieties go away.
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  12. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Let's be careful here about accusing women who don't initially come forward as being greedy. As I said above, there are legitimate reasons why someone might not feel right about coming forward until other come forward.
     
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  13. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Amazing how many of you clowns aren't taking sexual harassment/assault serious especially in these times.

    Be careful out there.
     
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  14. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    And Bill Cosby raped for years and got away with it
     
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  15. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    I wonder if some of you have daughters or sisters.
     
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  16. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have three daughters. But I find these things difficult to judge, especially with the lack of information we are all afforded. I'm no more saying the women are lying than Watson isn't guilty. But the burden of proof falls on the women to provide. (innocent until proven guilty) It doesn't help their case that they waited so long to come forward.

    I can see the frustrations that women may have bringing something like this to court. How do you prove something wasn't consensual.

    Either way... Watson was involved is some shady stuff that placed his reputation and career in question. That fact that he could be guilty, as a hiring manager whose job is to protect the working environment, it would be a no for me on that point alone.
     
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  17. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if some of you have sons? Women never falsely accuse men of rape.... Nope, never happens. *cough- Duke Lacrosse Case- cough*

    Btw, nothing happened to the woman who falsely accused the 3 lacrosse players of rape. She didnt get in trouble for it
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2021
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  18. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Even though the burden of proof usually falls on the accuser in the court of public opinion a woman claiming rape caries much more weight than a man claiming innocence. With no evidence in the form of video or recorded audio it boils down to he said/she said x 22. The lawyer could easily dig up another dozen Jane Doe's and the case becomes even more damning, in the court of public opinion. It's a winning strategy judging by the spectrum of comments from the posters here.
    Without proof it will never make it to a criminal court but It is in Watson's financial interest to settle if he wants to make millions more dollars beyond his current contract. This is the lawyer Buzbee's entire strategy.
     
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  19. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    I love how all of you gloss over the fact there is this many masseuses and watson cant even deny he met with any of these women 1 on 1. How do you run through 40+ masseuses as a professional athlete that can have them personally supplied by the team in 6 months. Also, why do you think he went away from the team masseuses.
     
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  20. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Because there are 22. Its not irrelevant. If you were honest you would bet your money on him being guilty too.

    The reality is though most of the discussion here isn't assuming he is guilty its recognizing the extreme uncertainty around him
     
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  21. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Watson only denied the claim of forced sex (rape). He admitted to sexual contact but, that it was consensual. The number 40+ is a number that YOU have accepted as fact, probably from adding 22 and 18 but, it has by no means been verified.
     
  22. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Key, this is not meant to be directed solely at you. I dig you brotha' and you have been one of the more reasonable people on this matter. I understand where you are coming from. I am just using this post to point out some of my over all points.

    But is there "one" what? That's the issue. If he did something criminal or psychotic, then yeah, that's certainly a problem, but we don't yet know the details. The devil is in the details. Let's see.

    What's not ok? Apologizing to a few women? Seriously. Was he apologizing for trying to rape or attack them or something? ...or just for acting inappropriately? See? Details, language, all very important here.

    First, if you have daughters that age, they have already most certainly seen and heard a lot worse from just watching any main stream news channels and certainly all over the internet. Again, we have to first know the details.
    There is nothing wrong with getting massages and no, I highly doubt they were prostitutes in the common sense of there word. People who give massages with "happy endings" is a regular practice in many established massage parlors or whatever you want to call them. That is common where I live and there are many. They make the offers. I mentioned in my first post about this. I could tell you many stories about "massage therapists" or whatever that won't really portray them as the innocent little girls that some are making them out to be.

    ...and let's not forget, this is a kid in his 20s, a kid who has millions. Are you all kidding me? This is where that 'holier than though" thing comes in. S--t, I and many many people I know have done a lot worse things in our day.

    Again, if something comes out that he did do some really sick, criminal stuff, I certainly will not support him nor support signing him, but we don't know the details yet. I'm sure that's what the team's legal team is trying to sort out.

    Personally, I hope this doesn't turn out to be as serious as it is being portrayed around because Watson is one bad mamma jamma of a QB. We should all seriously hope for the best in this case and hope things work out in order for us to sign him. I actually doubt it happens. Either way, I think the Texans will wait until the offseason to unload him, so they can have more interested teams by then and really drive the price up to get him.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2021
    KeyFin likes this.
  23. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Well he isn't a kid but other than that what are you saying here? What is the relevance?
     
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  24. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    The "he's just a kid" thing is just so ignorant. Especially when he's in his mid 20's.
     
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  25. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha! Right! Says the man with the arse hat.
     
  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I'm always up for conversation and I almost never take offense. It's good to talk this stuff out when we disagree...it sets a great example on what this site should be (responsible, respectful adults that can have adult conversations, strongly disagree and still be friends)!

    The details we know from one of the first defendants is that he got excited, "Mr. Happy" made an appearance (maybe inside clothes, maybe not) and she left on the spot. He sent her several messages apologizing over the next few days. Now, maybe he did nothing criminal or anything wrong in a civil court, but he was obviously apologizing because he knew he did something wrong.

    That's not "guilt" in any court, but if he had the above interaction and then had similar interactions with other females after that...it's a huge problem since it shows a pattern. One time- sure, you goofed up, misread the room and made yourself look like an idiot. Multiple times it's not the same conversation.

    Also, the second woman who testified said that he forced himself on her, held her down, kissed her, grabbed her in places, then forced her to perform oral sex against her will. He apologized to her for several days as well and those texts were made public. Again, not it's not ironclad guilt and it could have been a misunderstanding in the moment, but if what she said is true then it's clearly criminal rape.

    Absolutely- but if a person exposed themselves to my wife, my daughter, my mother, etc...I'd be the one going to jail. I rarely lose my cool in life but in that one instance, I would beat the heck out of someone.

    Hey, I completely understand. You come into 10's of millions, women throw themselves at you, the team is traveling for work and you have weekend layovers in different cities...I completely understand the temptation and the mis-step in judgement. I could tell you stories of a rich friend doing stuff like that all over the world- was I slightly jealous at his sexual adventures? Of course! But that's not how I live my life.

    Again, my daughters are 20 and 22. One does side jobs all the time (housekeeping, caring for livestock/pets, etc.) and she occasionaly gets hit on- sometimes to the point where she feels really uncomfortable. That's NOT OKAY...and nobody should tell her, "Well, if you clean a rich man's house, you should expect that stuff to come with the territory." Not in 2021.

    I'm not trying to be holy; I'm just saying to respect women in any situation.

    We all hope that, but the details from the women who have spoken out do not look good. And you're right, maybe it's all made up for publicity and payouts. But in my mind, any of those women could be my daughter, my mom, my wife, etc. I feel like as a society, we have to give women the benefit of the doubt in these situations until the full evidence is presented.

    The problem here is that if Watson settles, we never know the truth. That's not a good thing.
     
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  27. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of douchebags out there that have a higher place in society, be it a politician, professional athlete, movie star, CEO, etc that abuse their power and stature by bullying others (especially women). Some of them get off on it, some of them get away with it and that's just a sad reality.
    There is also an insane amount of just gold digging, money grubbing female vampires out there just looking to burn someone/anyone's *** who has money. Yet another sad reality.
    Innocent/Guilty....Watson should have probably not put himself in this position. I personally think he's guilty AF. Now that doesn't mean that I think he's some sexual predator out to rape women. I just think he thought he could get away with more than he expected. Once a few ladies came forward about it, it made it a lot easier for more to do so. The bottom line is that Watson, or any pro athlete, movie star, etc should not be putting themselves in those positions in the first place. Like with everything else in life, it's bad on both sides.
     
  28. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    When is the official trade deadline? I can’t wait for this thread to die
     
  29. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    you mean when this story keeps going until the draft lol.
     
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  30. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    No, that would be incorrect. The burden of proof in EVERY criminal case falls on the STATE. And that's the way it SHOULD be. When we have a criminal justice system where the burden of proof is on the accused rather than the state, we have a police state.
     
  31. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    That’s right, god, you just ruined my day
     
  32. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    Really want your day ruined? Pitts only had 13 yards this week. Shows how inept our defensive coaching is lately.
     
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  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    As a former police officer, I can tell you that 1 in 250 sexual assaults get reported. Out of those, 1 in 1000 result in an arrest. Then 1 in 10 of those actually make it to trial...and only a fraction of those are found guilty. The number of rapes to convictions is astronomically low.

    However, let's now look at each victim. They call the police, get strip searched, taken to a hospital, get violated all over again with inspections and samples taken. Then- nothing. They wait as evidence is sent off to a lab. Some states have 10+ year backlogs on processing rape kits. All the while, the victim's name is in the initial police report so the media names her locally. If the police don't think they have enough for a clear conviction (video evidence or witnesses), it's a total waste of time.

    Because even with DNA- where's the proof it's rape? How do we know it wasn't consensual? You can't prove it over 99.9% of the time so the burden of proof is not on the state. It's on the victim for getting raped incorrectly or not video taping it.
     
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  34. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Can’t wait until 4pm tomorrow so this thread can die
     
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  35. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    So, you'd rather allow the state to convict someone without evidence? Because where does that stop?
     
  36. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    This 1000%
    If he needs a therapeutic massage he has some of the best in the world at his disposal in the team facility and on the road 24/7. But none of them would "play ball".
     
  37. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    A reluctant 'No' to Watson. The talent and age combination makes him worth a fortune to a football team, but the character concerns are very real.

    Maybe the Texans panic and offer him for cheap as the trade deadline nears? A first and second for Watson? That would be tempting -but then I remember that Grier and Flores, along with the rest of the organization would find a way to fail even when given elite talent. That's also assuming that all the legal and civil issues Watson is facing are resolved. The Dolphin's issues go way beyond just needing an elite QB.
     
  38. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Buckle up chaps, it's trade deadline day!

    Make your predictions - two questions. Please select two answers.

    1. Will Deshaun be a Dolphin today?
    2. Do you want him to be a Dolphin?

    Also, here's a prediction for free - if Deshaun doesn't end up a Dolphin...

    [​IMG]

    ...expect the media to start pouring on the excuses about how they were right in their prediction and information but...

    Any other predictions?
     
  39. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Nope. I'm saying to stop acting like victims are lying and out for a quick payday until evidence proves otherwise. That's exactly what this conversation has turned into.
     
  40. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    And here come the excuses!

    I present to you the no news news:


     

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