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Week 11 - Dolphins @ Jets

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 16, 2021.

  1. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    3 in a row? Nice.
     
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  2. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    No, he's right. You want to be right about your opinion so bad, that you're willing to find each and every little flaw you can find just to protect your precious ego from being wrong. That's your problem. You can't admit that you might be wrong about something and it's probably more than just Tua. It just seems to not matter at all. You completely disappear along with a few other haters on here whenever he has a good game or we win, and yet whenever we lose or he throws an interception, you pop right back up to spew all your negative crap in an attempt to talk yourself up about how right you think you are. Let me tell you that NOBODY cares dude. Nobody. You're on an internet forum acting like you're Jesus Christ of football with your "told you so" lines and your weak *** player evaluation crap that you throw out there. You bash each and every player on this roster and complain about everything with this team. It's nothing but negativity from you every Sunday all day no matter what.
     
    Dan S likes this.
  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Relatively easy schedule coming up.. no reason we can't salvage the season. 7-7 might be up next.

    Anyway, good game even though there were a lot of disappointing plays, but also good ones. Refs were very suspicious. I think at the end of the season we should check to see if this particular crew tends to always call ticky-tack penalties or if this game was an aberration.
     
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  4. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Your lips, God's ears.
     
  5. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Grier bad but Grier wants Watson so Tua must be bad?

    :confused1:
     
  6. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Only positive I take from this game is that we won a game that we were supposed to! We beat a bad team. IMHO Both teams played uninspired dink dunk games for 90% of it.
     
    resnor likes this.
  7. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I have absolutely no problem admitting when I'm wrong, and I have done so before including on here. I really do not care if you care either, dude. I also have no problem cheering for the team, I was excited about last week's win and was cheering the team on during the game, including posting positive messages here during the game. It was a good win against a good team.

    However, I am not a blind cheerleader, the win this week does not excite me because we played poorly against a bad team. Our offense is still not good, and our blitzing defense worked well last week but teams will adjust to it.

    I post both positive and negative comments according to how I see it. I have posted very positive comments regarding some of our draft picks as well like Holland, Hunt, Wilkins and Phillips. Some of you just can't handle the negative comments, which unfortunately are admittedly greater than the positive comments since I disagree with most of what Grier does.

    I have a right to say whatever I see fit, it's just a discussion forum. You also have a right to care or not care, it really makes no difference to me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I think the same- we "should" continue this win streak until we're a .500 team. Panthers are probably the toughest of the next three though.
     
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  9. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I was against the Watson trade, not because I think Tua is great, but because the price we would have to pay for Watson is too steep and his legal issues are too risky.

    Trading for Watson is also a cop out from Grier to try and make up for his terrible drafting.

    Watson is a proven elite QB, Tua is not, but Watson is not worth the price and risk.

    What we should do is fire Grier immediately and get a competent GM in here to do an actual rebuild, mostly through the draft.
     
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  10. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    I think its fair not to be overly sold on tua atm. However, i dont think hes played nearly bad enough to pivot and not build around him.
     
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  11. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I've always said he needs to end slightly above average this year at 95+ rating for me to be on board. After today he's at 91.4 and trending upwards so I think he'll make it. Next year we need to see him get rid of many of his remaining decision making errors and get that Y/A up by throwing more downfield. He does that and he'll be a consistent above average QB. We can then concentrate on building the rest of the team without worrying about getting a new QB.

    But first thing (for me) is to see him cross that 95+ threshold with decent sample size.
     
  12. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    You mean less than five points behind God Herbert?
     
  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah Herbert's at 96.3 right now. If Tua ends up 95+ and Herbert keeps this up there won't be any real difference between them statistically. If there's one thing I'd be worried about with Herbert it's that he's not improving. He's played a bit above average for 2 years now. Granted, for a 2nd year QB this is very good, but if he doesn't improve performance-wise in year 3 I'd start getting worried.

    Burrow's still the star QB of that 2020 draft.
     
  14. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Statistically Herbert has played good in 1/3 of his games this season. Don't say that on this website though.
     
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  15. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    You should really take a long look at some of the smug, arrogant stuff that you post on here. Yeah, you have the right to act like a conceded pretentious jerk on here. You have the right to act like you are better and smarter than everyone else on here. Congrats, it doesn't make it true nor does it make it ok for you to act that way. But go ahead, keep viewing the tape. Maybe you should view your own tape.
    Look, I don't come here to get into mindless arguments with other Dolphin fans. The one time that I did get to see us play live, we won! It was a great experience because I found myself uniting with complete strangers throughout the game. High fives all around, real fellowship. It was absolutely awesome. I come here and between you and Canezfan it's just purely toxic. Such a shame too. We win a game, go on a little win streak and some people still find stuff to complain about. I don't know man. Maybe it's me that needs to step away. I definitely need improvement as a person as well. Good day to you. Glad we won, Phins up.
     
  16. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    That's 1/3rd better than Tua, who has yet to impress in any of his games. There's not a human being alive who wouldn't trade Tua for Herbert straight up. Fact.

    I gave him the benefit of the doubt for too long, and I'm done. His mental game is lacking, his physical tools are lacking, and has a noodle arm . Pennington had a stronger arm... Watching Tua is like watching Brees in his final season. Can't push the ball down the field and defenses creep up and take away the intermediate passes leaving him with nothing. For ****s sake, Waddle is averaging 8 yards per reception.... That's ****ing insane.

    Tua is a career backup. That's his makeup. He's Colt McCoy. Another decade of rebuilding ahead.
     
  17. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I’m sure the Dollar Tree has a sale on elite franchise quarterbacks. I think I saw a coupon in this morning’s newspaper for them.

    I agree with you that Grier has to go but the number problem on the roster offensively is the O line. Since elite franchise quarterbacks aren’t available at the Dollar Tree, then the smartest and most logical move is the build an elite offensive line.

    Anyone who can’t see that as priority number one truly doesn’t understand football
     
  18. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Tagovailoa completed 81% of his passes today and recorded a 108.71 qbr, almost 20 points above the league average…

    Herbert on the other hand, thus far has completed only 71% of his passes and recorded a qbr of 101.54.
     
  19. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    You're obfuscating. Herbert > Tua. All day. Every day. In every way. Fact. You would trade Tua for Herbert right this second if it were possible. You're not alone. Everyone else in the football world would too. It's irrelevant though. The larger point is, Tua isn't an NFL starting caliber QB. He can throw 3 yard passes all day for 80% completion and it means nothing. That's why one of the most explosive WR in the NFL, who Miami traded up for 2 first round picks, is averaging 8 yards per catch. Tua is not it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
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  20. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but Grier has shown time and again that he does not know how to build an oline. So priority number one is getting rid of Grier.
     
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  21. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    No my friend, believe it or not you're the one obfuscating. You see Tagovailoa "check down" and assume that's he's good for doing. Nothing can be further from the truth.



    Keeping in mind that football is a TEAM sport...that one player can't do his job unless the other 10 are doing theirs...if you take the time and watch the entire video, you'll see the following:

    The majority of Tagovailoa's short passes are by design. Short slants or flat routes. No one can fault Tagovailoa for executing the play that was called. If anyone is upset at Tua's short passes, get mad at the playcaller, not the player.

    The remaining of the short passes are the result of a rapidly collapsing offensive line. 20+ yard passing routes take time to develop and if the offensive line can't hold the pass rush and Tua is scrambling to avoid a sack nor has a pocket to step up into, those longer routes won't have develop yet to throw, so you take what the defense gives you.

    When you see the longer passes by Tagovailoa on the video, look at the line...they are actually giving the quarterback the protection he requires to do his job...no different than ANY OTHER quarterback in the league. If they have the time, they have the opportunity to make downfield throws. When they don't, they take what they can get.

    I swear this feels like I'm defending Tannehill all over again.
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    And I'll say the same thing I said about Tannehill, it's unfair to pass full judgement without a full offense on the field. Now, to Tua's credit he's great at getting the ball out fast under pressure so it's not as big of a deal as RT (it was/is his weakness), but RT also had a decent receiving corp and a decent running game. Tua has neither of those advantages.

    I mentioned this last season and early this year- Tua is undefeated when we have our starting offense on the field. We just can't seem to do that with any sort of regularity.
     
  23. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I too defended Tannehill to the very end (I've even defended Tua until now). I told Titans fans they traded for a good QB who would takeover by mid season and never look back. Miami failed him. Miami isn't doing Tua any favors either. The difference is, Ryan Tannehill showed talent... The last time we saw him play, he was leading this team to the playoffs. The last previous starting QB for Miami, Ryan Fitzpatrick, took the same group of players and made Tua look incompetent. Tua hasn't shown anywhere near the same ability as either. As ****ty as Miami's offense is, there's 0 doubt in my mind, we're not 4-7 (Tua is 2-4) with Fitzpatrick. Of those 6 games, Miami probably is 4-2 at worst.
     
  24. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Now I know you aren't being serious.
     
  25. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Dead serious. What games are you guys watching?
     
  26. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Few QBs have a "full offense" on the field so you never want to make excuses for QB performance because of bad surrounding cast. What you want to see is whether they can consistently produce even with sub-par surrounding cast. That 95+ is only a minimum for Tua because Tua is a 2nd year QB and statistically QBs tend to improve until years 3-4. So if he can make 95+ with a bad OL/RB (I think the WR are fine) then he's going to average 100+ just through growth in decision-making in year 3 and be possibly better in year 4.

    If you have a QB that is consistently 7-8 points above league average (that's what 100+ is given today's league average), then you can't say the QB is the reason you didn't win the SB in a 15 year time span or so. That's where we at minimum want to be, which is why I say 95+ in year 2 is acceptable. What is not acceptable is average or slightly above average performance over 6 years like Tannehill.

    Clearly, Tannehill was elite in 2019, and was well above average in 2020, but it's looking more and more like what I said would happen is happening — that as you get more game tape on Henry + Tannehill defenses will adjust. They find out what works and doesn't work and the effectiveness of that fantastic complement decreases. Look at Tannehill this year. Below average. He's at 86.1 and just lost a game for the team with 4 INTs, all in crucial situations, against the lowly Texans. The "true" talent level is showing. Once again, he repeatedly shows he can't overcome adversity.

    No, you can't make excuses for QBs not having a "full offense". QBs need to find ways to overcome, which is best measured with passer rating with a large sample size because what you want to look at is actual production, not some subjective impression. So no excuses for Tua making 95+ this year and 100+ next year. The QB has to elevate the team, not just be a cog in the wheel.
     
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  27. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Tua's YPA is 7.2

    Mac Jones is at 7.3 and Herbert is at 7.4 but you probably think they just fling the ball down field all game and they're the greatest quarterbacks of all time.

    Yeah, I'd be fine with 80% completions, 275 yards, two touchdowns and a win everytime.

    You're a moron to think he's not an NFL starting caliber quarterback.
     
  28. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    80% completion, 4 passes traveled 10 yards or more in the air. One was picked, the other was a TD off busted coverage, thrown behind the receiver, against the worst defense in the NFL. I'm glad you're impressed. I'm not overly impressed with Mac Jones, the pats won't let him throw 10+ yards in the air either. Your YPA stats are deceptive AF, considering Tua had ONE game that completely distorts his numbers (Ravens, 12.15 YPA). Whatever...

    DOVA
    Herbert: 12th
    Tua: 23rd

    DYAR
    Herbert: 10th
    Tua: 23rd

    EYDs
    Herbert: 6th
    Tua: 31st

    There's no comparison... Stop. Saying Tua isn't a starting caliber QB might be an exaggeration. He's still a bottom 3rd QB and I'm not at all encouraged with anything I've seen from him. This whole offense sucks and no one is going to save it.
     
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  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You don't need to be impressed by Tua. I'm waiting to see what his stats look like at the end of the year myself. But you can't on one hand say Y/A is deceptive (which is certainly possible at this stage but increasingly less so with larger sample size) and then trot out stats from Football Outsiders that are FAR more deceptive because no one has a clue how they're calculated! FO stats aren't even really "stats" in the traditional sense because they include all kinds of subjective assumptions about how much different plays are worth.

    See if you can figure out the formula:
    https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

    Those "success points" are the result of tons of subjective assumptions.
     
  30. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    To be fair, I said Tua's YPA is deceptive because it's skewed by that Baltimore game, not that YPA is bad by itself. But yeah, aren't most stats just pieces to the puzzle and can be deceptive by themselves? I'll give you an example.

    Last night Herbert had a 20-25 yard throw, running to towards the sidelines going backwards. He threw a laser between the numbers. Yet, because he was 10-15 yards behind the LOS, his official YPA on that throw is like 8-10 yards... The hidden yardage matters. Not statistically, but not a lot of QB's could of drilled that pass. Tua could not have made that throw, IMO. Yet, I'm told their official YPA are similar and therefore they're the same QB or something.
     
  31. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Nobody said that you're just ignorant and see what you want to see. You're so blinded by Herbert you don't even care to look at stats showing their similarities whether they're "deceptive" or not. I saw Herbert throw alot of short passes to wide open receivers last night who make plays after the catch. He did have some nice throws and he had some bad throws that almost cost them the game like throwing a pass right into a defensive lineman face right in front of him.

    Mike Williams on that last play was wide open by 20 yards and Herbert put it on him. When Tua hit Albert Wilson on that wide open pass against the Ravens, the main response from Tua haters was that he was wide open and it was a busted coverage. But, Herbert is praised when he does it.

    I swear there are more Dolphins fans that are Chargers fans than Chargers fans themselves.
     
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  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    There is no one a lot of Dolphin fans love more than players on other teams.
     
  33. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    It's like you invent narratives in your own mind to try and debunk. Blinded by Herbert? He's legit top 10 and still in his early 20's. Yes, he won the game by hitting Mike Williams for a TD on busted coverage... Who denied that? The difference is, Herbert can hit guys deep without busted coverage too. I'm done with you. It's a bad faith debate when you just make **** up.
     

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