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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    This is good evidence Tua is the type of QB that can overcome adversity, which is exactly the type we need. He's got such a poor surrounding cast on OL and RB (though his WRs are decent) and is still producing above average. We fix the OL and RB positions, give Tua another year to improve (on average QBs tend to improve up until years 3-4) and we could be looking at elite level production.

    Elite in today's game is around 102 passer rating (about 1 standard deviation above the mean and the average level at which a QB that wins a SB plays in the year he wins the SB), and Tua is 6 points below that right now. It's totally realistic to improve 6 points going from gutter OL and running game to average OL/RB + 1 extra year maturity on part of a 2nd year QB.

    Of course if he keeps up his recent play he might be a lot closer to that 102 by end of this season. Either way, I want Tua to show all these Tua detractors claiming his ceiling is nowhere near "elite" that they're wrong. It may take only one more year for that proof.
     
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  2. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    You knew I was about to post what follows, didn't you?
     
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  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah.. we're on the same side of this Tua argument, but that stat has to be dismissed. The average passer rating in 1984 was 76.1 while it's 91.4 today, so about 15 passer rating points difference. A comparable stat in 2021 to what Marino did in 1984 would therefore be to post 6 consecutive 115+ passer ratings (actually 117+ since Marino's lowest rating during that stretch was 102.2).

    Tua isn't Marino. This is a case where it's vital to adjust stats for era or you get highly misleading results.
     
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  4. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    Tua Would have been over 80% again today, if not for the 4 drops.

    This team simply can’t catch… or run… or block anyone for that matter.
    Otherwise it’s a great surrounding cast.
     
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  5. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  6. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, ive officially crossed the line on tua. I’ll sell my season tickets if they move off him in the offseason. He might not be a transcendent player but hes more than good enough to win long term in the nfl. I’ll be pissed if we blow draft assets instead of building around him.
     
  7. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Tua is elite at dinking and dunking, I'll give him that. As long as the Dolphins are winning I'm happy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  8. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Tua isn't Marino. He never will be. I don't think the tweet was about putting him in Marino's neighborhood so much as it's putting him above everybody who followed #13. To compare (and to buttress your point), DeShaun Watson had a 102 QB rating last season and he had stretches of games where he had 100+ for 6, 2, and 4 games in the midst of the season.

    So, as I read the tweet, Tua isn't Dan Marino, but he's also not Ryan Tannehill, Matt Moore, Chad Henne, Cleo Lemon, Trent Green, Daunte Culpepper, Gus Frerotte, Larry, Curley, or Moe (or any of the rest of them).
     
  9. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how he's doing it. If he stayed in the pocket longer, he'd be nuked by now. But he's not opting to run in the RPO because if he did, he'd be nuked by now. But he's managing the games and winning in spite of conventional wisdom, which suggests he needs o-line and RB support. And just as crazy, he's completing a high percentage of passes in spite of a league high number of drops.

    I pump the brakes to suggest that he's a phenom because IMO, he's not. But I'm amazed that we got 8 pages out of the most obvious thread title of this year: Tua Is Not The Problem.
     
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  10. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Every single team dinks and dunks. This narrative is so played.
     
  11. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Every team dinks and dunks sometimes, but not the grand majority of the time like we do.
     
  12. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    The offensive line isn't giving him time to get the ball down the field. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to understand. Other people on here have provided every bit of factual data to explain why we are throwing short passes all the time and it still seems to not register with you at all. I mean...Maybe the O line just isn't giving him the time he needs. I'm sure you watch the games right??? We certainly didn't draft Jaylen Waddle to be a short yardage possession receiver. BTW Tom Brady dinked and dunked his way to multiple Super Bowl wins. I don't hear New England fans complaining. You work with what you have and that is all we have right now. Tua would not have gotten drafted if he couldn't sling a football more than thirty yards. Lets get real here.
     
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  13. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Tua was mostly dinking and dunking last year also, and our oline was not nearly as bad as this year's. Herbert had the worst oline in the NFL last year, and yet he won ROY throwing downfield.

    Stop using the oline as an excuse. The vertical passing game, throwing downfield and outside the numbers is just not Tua's forte. The system we are running is designed to hide both our oline issues AND Tua's lack of arm strength.
     
  14. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Herbert Herbert Herbert Herbert Herbert Herbert Herbert Herbert Herbert Herbert Herbert Herbert Herbert
     
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  15. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    You would think Dolphin fans would actually watch the games and know how bad the offensive line is. Tua is instantly under pressure.
     
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  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Every team also tries to protect their QBs and give them time to throw. Oh, wait a minute...that's optional in Miami.

    You're not comparing apples to apples here; especially with Herbert's top-10 line and Miami's historically bad line. Their QB stats shouldn't even be close at this point...it's like comparing Rosen in Arizona to Allen in Buffalo. One of those things are not like the other.
     
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  17. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I see Tua as a good guitarist in a kazoo band. How good he is can't be determined because the guys he's playing with sound like crap. Suggesting that he doesn't stretch some of his notes long enough or use effective fills in his riffs can be debated and talked about among fans. But to suggest that that guy is the problem in a rotten band is a stretch. Let's see how he plays with better accompaniment. He may not be great. He may never be great. But we'll never know if we expect him to make a bunch of tone deaf high school music class dropouts sound like the Beatles.

    Perhaps the one thing I like about him the most is the fact that he adapted his game to get rid of the ball quickly. His offensive line is trash, so he's finding his targets and avoiding sacks and rushed plays. A lot of young players take a hit like he suffered against the Bills and get happy feet. Some, like David Carr, never recover in their careers. But this kid actually knows not to trust his line and he's completing 70% of his passes in spite of having barely 2 seconds to get rid of the ball.

    Tua may not be the answer; I don't know. But until we fix the fundamental problems, I can definitely say he's not the problem.
     
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  18. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    As hitman would say death by noodle arm.
     
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  19. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    He’s even making you stutter.
     
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  20. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    It’s pretty clear that we need to figure out our OL to not only improve the running game, we have to have one of the least effective run games, but to also get more of a vertical passing attack.

    That’s the missing piece to a playoff run. I’m not expecting it this year because I don’t see us winning out. But Grier better not hit important pieces like he did last off-season and set us back.
     
  21. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    To me, Tua is a young Drew Brees. He has all the tools to run an efficient offense that moves the ball and opens up downfield shots. However, the offense is not helping him and his growth is somewhat slowed because of it. I don't think we've seen anywhere close to his ceiling and people are too critical because he has to play more one-dimensional at the moment.
     
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  23. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Alex in the club first posted this tweet/fact.

     
  24. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    I see this too. Brees was a dink & dunk and injury hazard for his first 3 years in the league. He was considered a noodle arm and too risky to sign long term, so they drafted Rivers.

    Not saying Tua will have a Brees-like career, but he has the same accuracy, and he's picking up the nuances of the game very quickly. Using his eyes and body to create throwing windows, etc.
     
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  25. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Imagine if it was the Dolphins tonight and Tua had one pass attempt?
     
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  26. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Never seen a game where the defense KNOWS what the offense is going to do — run the ball on EVERY play except that one pass attempt lol — and they can't stop it. At time of writing, NE has 233 rushing yards in 38 attempts translating to a 6.13 Y/C when the NFL average is 4.3 Y/C and NE's average before this game is 4.1 Y/C. This is unbelievable. The defense knows it's a run and can't stop it.
     
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  27. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying Jones is going to get universally praised as an unselfish hero.

    Tua would have been trashed for the coaches not having faith in him to throw in the harsh winds.
     
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  28. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    bUt CaN hE tHrOw ThE bAlL 70 yArDs?

    DiDn'T tHiNk So! ThAt'S wHy He'S tHe PrObLeM!
     
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  29. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^^^^
     
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  30. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Imagine ending a game with -35 total yards.

    Also: Can you imagine where we'd be sitting right now if we had a consistently strong OL like the Deflatriots have had for the past 20 years?
    [​IMG]
     
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  31. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Cowherd would climax on national radio waves.
     
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  32. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    He still can't throw a tight 80 yard spiral into gale force winds.
     
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  33. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  34. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Louis Riddick reflects my opinion on Tua (~10:50 of the video).
     
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  35. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree, you don't need flashy or spectacular....you need a QB that's consistent, accurate, smart and reliable. That's Tua to a tee.
     
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  36. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    You know who doesn't agree? Chris Simms. I think he's realizing (too late) that if he figured out how to throw the ball accurately for 5 yards instead of landing haymakers, he might have been in the NFL longer. Guess he's learning it's better to be penny wise than pound foolish.

     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
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  37. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    Simms is a Jerk i think he's just jealous of any starting QB because he couldn't cut it. He was saying today Brady wasn't that good and he might sound like a "Hater" sound familiar? but he's just a product of his environment.
     
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  38. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Tua definitely banged Simms' girl.
     
  39. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    At a cocktail party, Chris Simms will smile as he introduces you to his girlfriend and his sister. It doesn't surprise you to realize there's only one woman with him.
     
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  40. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I'll drop this here.
     
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