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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    They piled on when he struggled and proclaimed he clearly isn't the answer. If they acknowledge that he's now playing much better, it means they were wrong and many of them are never wrong. So now, they're painted into a corner and they're hoping nobody sees it. The only way out is for Tua to play poorly so they can say "I told you so!".
     
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  2. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    If be plays lights out and puts us in a position to win and we lose for other reasons then I'll say that he played well. I'm sorry but up until this point all I see is a game manager, average at best QB
     
  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yes you did:
    https://thephins.com/threads/deshaun-watson.95855/page-2#post-3340110
    https://thephins.com/threads/joe-burrow-throat-contusion.96719/#post-3402100
    Glad you're mollifying your stance and letting things play out a bit. But saying "we'll see" is a very different take than you've generally had in the past. You've been quite certain in the past that his ceiling is average. Now you're changing that to he could be "good" not great. At least you're changing your stance. Better than if you didn't. But let's not act like this is what you've been saying all along.
     
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  4. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure almost none of the **checks notes** "Tua lovers" weren't in love before he started playing well. At most, some were suggesting we give him a chance. Since he's started to pile up an impressive statistical record and won five games in a row (Brissett won the first), a lot of Miami Dolphins fans have become **checks notes** "Tua lovers".

    Don't get it twisted. We don't "love" him because he's Tua Tagavailoa. We "love" him because he's quarterbacking our favorite team and seems to be pretty good at it. If either of those two facts changes, you can bet the farm, those folks will be quick to make it known. I'm amazed at how someone can be salty in the midst of a six-game win streak because the quarterback isn't someone who they'd prefer him to be.
     
  5. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    #whataboutism
     
  6. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I'd prefer someone who's not going to lose games for us, myself. If that makes him a game manager, so be it. This kid leads all NFL starters in completion percentage (after a bad game) and is in the mdist of a personal 5-game win streak. None of that is bad.

    BTW: The title of this thread is "Tua Is Not The Problem". If he's average at best and a game manager, it means he's not the problem. So why do you seem to believe otherwise? I mean, if someone started a thread titled "Tua Is Not Justin Herbert", pretty much all of us would agree, because that's common knowledge. After all, nobody is someone else.

    As far as I'm concerned, I think that there's a rose in a fisted glove. It's where the eagle flies with the dove. And if you can't be with the one that you love, Love The One You're With. :hi5:
     
  7. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for digging that up. What I meant when I said that I never said he sucked, was in this particular thread.
     
  8. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not salty, I'm as happy as a clam. I just don't get the praise being heaped upon him. He's been playing average.
     
  9. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    That completion percentage is skewed. He 8 times out of 10 throws passes under 10 yards. I would hope he'd complete a bunch of those
     
  10. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    This is the kind of comments the Tua-haters on the Dolphins fan pages on Facebook constantly make, always trying to shortchange Tua or minimize his accomplishments.
     
  11. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Tua's air yards per attempt is 6.8, ok it's at the bottom third of the league. Do you know who else is in the bottom third of the league?

    Josh Allen 7.2
    Patrick Mahomes 7.2
    Justin Herbert 7.4

    Every team throws short passes. Tua just does it better. Watch a Chiefs game, it's 95% screens, flats and drags with an occasional deep pass.
     
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  12. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    But it's an accurate statement
     
  13. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    It's not skewed, running that kind of offense is not easy so you're quite wrong.

    Interesting you didn't object the way I tied you in with the Tua-haters, so at least that's accurate.
     
  14. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Those guys also take chances and air it out too. I'd like to see tua do the same
     
  15. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I don't hate him personally, I hate that we wasted a top 5 pick on an average QB. Also, what's "not easy" about throwing bubble screens and quick slants?
     
  16. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    That doesn't make sense either, why not move on from that and cheer for the guy? What are you looking to accomplish by crapping on him all the time? Is that somehow going to reverse the selection?

    And he's not average, he's very good. Get used to that.
     
  17. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    He is not "very good". He is quite average. This is what I mean. People putting him up on some pedestal is weird
     
  18. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Tua isn’t the only player on the Dolphins team. He could go 30/35, 330 yards, 4 touchdowns, no interceptions and the TEAM could still lose.

    Tua could go 17-35, 171 yards 1 touchdown, 2 interceptions and the TEAM could still win.

    I don’t care if he throws little 5 yard outs or 30 yard bombs. I just want to see the Dolphins offense efficiently move the ball down the field and most importantly, get the ball in the Endzone…and want to see the Dolphins defense shut down the Saints with significant 3 and outs.

    At the end of the game, I could care less about any quarterback stats. The only stat I care about is the scoreboard
     
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  19. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Saying someone is very good is putting them on a pedestal? In what world? And hating someone for something they had no control over is not just weird, it's quite demented.
     
  20. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Please don't take what follows as a personal shot. I respect your opinion and as always, support your right to express it. But here's my contention with what you said:

    HE LEADS ALL STARTERS IN COMPLETION PERCENTAGE.

    That's not average. Especially with a receiving corps that is top 3 in drops.

    HE'S ON A PERSONAL 5-GAME WIN STREAK.

    That's not average. Especially when he is playing through a broken finger and busted ribs.

    HE IS THE HIGHEST RATED QB IN THE FOURTH QUARTER.

    That's not average. Especially when QBs like Tom Terrific, Aaron Rodgers, Kyler Murray, etc; are all considered to be "clutch". To be fair, they are higher rated QBs, so he's not in their league yet. But he's better than average.

    Again, nobody is saying he's great. Nobody is even saying that's he's definitively the answer. What we're saying is that he's not the problem. When you say he's "average", know that "average" is not just a subjective term. It's also objective in that there are ways to measure it. When he's near the top of the league in several categories, it means that he is absolutely, beyond a doubt, numerically determined to be better than average.

    You're entitled to your opinion. You can believe that he's not special (and you may be right). You can tell us that he's not the model of what you consider to be ideal (and you're clearly right). You can suggest that you prefer a QB with different attributes. All of that's cool. But Miami has had absolute rubbish under center since #13 retired and complaining that Tua is no Dan Marino is not just an obvious thing to suggest, it's unnecessary. He's not. Won't be. His ceiling isn't as high as Marino's floor.

    But with that being said, why do you care if somebody else likes a QB who's playing objectively well for a franchise that's had more than 20 different starting quarterbacks in 20 years? Are you willing to wait 20 more years for somebody better? Give the kid a chance.
     
  21. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Saying he's very good is putting him on a pedestal because he's not "very good". I bet even most tua fans wouldn't even say he was very good. Average to good is what any objective person would say
     
  22. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't I just say that I didnt hate him?I hate the idiots who picked him
     
  23. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    All valid points. These next 3 games will tell me a lot about him. I hope he proves me wrong
     
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  24. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Perfectly stated. He doesn't need to be great. He just needs to not be bad. And his detractors seem to have abandoned the "Tua sucks" monologue and moved on to the "well, other players are better" argument.

    I guess on that point, we can all agree.
     
  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Me too, Brother. Me, too. I long ago wrote off our playoff chances and still would not bet on us to back our way in. But I was embarrassed by what what I saw in the first eight weeks of the season. We were (IMO) the worst team in the NFL. We got beat by Jacksonville. Urban Meyer's best moment in the NFL was beating US.

    If we win two games in the next three weeks and finish with a winning record, I'm happy because I believe we are now the team I thought us to be at the beginning of the season. The hole might be too deep, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

    I'm just hoping it's not a train.
     
  26. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    That's the thing. A QB that is taken in the top 5 of the 1st round should be great. If not, we could have used that pick on another need and gotten a game manager later on
     
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  27. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    If we win 2 out of 3 and don't make the playoffs, I'll still be pissed because we lost to Jacksonville and Atlanta. Those two games could be the season. This team always shoots itself in the foot
     
  28. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that we didn't. That doesn't mean that guy we have isn't good enough. Or that he won't be better. I guess I could express my POV by asking, at the end of the day, who was happier between Tampa Bay fans winning a Super Bowl with game manager Brad Johnson or Chargers fans with first-ballot hall of famer Phillip Rivers?
     
  29. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    One of my pet peeves is when someone talks down on someone so much and then follow it up with "I hope he proves me wrong".

    Ultimate cop out.
     
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  30. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  31. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Here’s where your logic is flawed. You’re making the assumption that a team that drafts a quarterback in the top 5 only needs a quarterback and all is well in the world. That’s nonsense. A team that picks that high in the draft is so horrible that they only won anywhere between 1-3 games.

    Go back and look at the drafts for the last 10 years…look at the quarterbacks drafted in the top 5…I’ll even say the top 10 and tell me where those quarterbacks are now.

    Sure, you’re going to find the onesies and twosies that lighting it up but look at all of them in context. Even some who have had their immediate flash of lightning have already started dimming.

    You’re going to find more that have failed than have succeeded and that is usually because they are drafted by terrible teams…absolutely horrible teams.

    Being in the top 5 doesn’t mean squat if the team you’re drafted by is absolutely terrible…and the Miami Dolphins have been a terrible team for many many years.

    It wasn’t broken overnight and it’s not going to be fixed overnight with the drafting of a quarterback.
     
  32. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand. How is it a cop out?
    I've stated that I think tua is just average to good and that's all he'll ever be. Hopefully, I'm wrong and he becomes a hall of famer and helps us win multiple super bowls.
     
  33. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Tua got the angry run of the week. Gotta give the kid credit for trucking that dude
     
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  34. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I think you kinda proved my point. We obviously needed more than just a QB but if you're gonna use your top 5 pick on a QB, you better be sure he's the real deal. I know no one can predict the future but tua was/is an undersized injury prone QB. Maybe they could have addressed another need and drafted a questionable QB later on.
     
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  35. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    He threw an ugly Pick 6, but many of the throws he made Sunday were very good.

    Having DVP back at full speed certainly helps. Hopefully they can benefit from DVP and Waddle on the same field next Monday.
     
  36. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    Also, they completed four long TD drives.

    A lot of that is because they were able to succeed with Johnson and Gaskin in the run game, but the defence didn't score any points and no short fields IIRC.

    Again, this was the Jets, they were lucky that Zach Wilson was feckless in the second half, but they were clearly the better team and scored when they needed to.
     
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  37. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Classic back track. Love it.
     
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  38. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    No. classic exactly what I said. In this thread I didnt say he sucked. And why backtrack? I thought he sucked when we drafted him. Now I see him for what he is. An average QB that is a game manager. Not worthy of a top 5 pick
     
  39. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Dude. Seriously just stop. When you get blown up just admit it and then move on. We still love you but please, just stop with the politicians answer.
     
  40. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    Atleast our guy completes ALL short passes
    Has an elite quick release.
    Rarely gets sacked.
    And wins games.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
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