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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    You need to remember these idiots aren't capable of building a complete team so might as well get the stud QB.
     
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  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Then again if Grier has one more fantastic draft like last year that might not be so true anymore. Question is whether Waddle, Phillips and Holland were such an exception that Grier can't replicate it. But if he can, then he can build a complete team. Stay tuned for 2022 lol.
     
  3. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Burrow's record is 10-6. Herbert's record is 15-16. Tua's record is 12-8. You're a fan of a team that's lucky to make the playoffs this century and you're complaining about a QB who's off to a successful start by any metric conceivable. Because you don't like his YPA (which is equal to Josh Allen's)? You don't have to like Tua, but you're differentiating between "important stats" to make your point? You're really invested in this, huh?
     
  4. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Yes, great quarterbacks increase tour playoff chances. But it’s not just the quarterback. You cite all of these quarterbacks.

    How many Super Bowls did Manning win in Indianapolis in all the years he was there?

    How many Super Bowls has Aaron Rodgers won in Green Bay in all the years he’s been there?

    How many Super Bowls did Brees win in all the years he was in New Orleans?

    All great elite quarterbacks. Not taking a thing away from them. But now…

    How many Super Bowl did Brady win in all the years he was in New England? BINGO!!! That’s the difference. Not that it’s Brady, it’s that the Patriots always had the better ***TEAM***

    Manning, Rodgers and Brees lit up the stat boards and set NFL records…finally winning a single championship with their respective teams. He’ll, even THE GOAT in Marino broke every record their was and only had one appearance at the dance.

    But the Patriots always had the better team…and until we make a full fledged effort at building the best TEAM we possibly can, it’s not going to matter who’s under center, the results are going to remain the same.
     
  5. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    If they can’t build a complete team…or something resembling a complete team, what makes anyone think they can actually get a “stud” quarterback…let alone an effective offensive scheme?
     
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  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    We all know the team matters. What you need to accept is that the QB matters. It sometimes happens that an average QB wins a SB. It's not often the case. With few exceptions SB winning QBs tend to be some of the best QBs in the NFL or QBs that played great that year.
     
  7. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Did you even read WHAT I wrote?
     
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  8. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    First, we didn't have a chance to get Burrow, so our discussion about missing out on him is moot. Second, if throwing short quick passes was simple, then Ian Book wouldn't have spent the last week in therapy. There are a gaggle of bottom tier QBs and hot seat coaches who have somehow not figured out that throwing the passes Tua completes is a way to effectively manage a game apparently. Wonder why that is? Oh, because it's not easy as you pretend it is. The funny thing is that Tua only does it because he has to move out of his pocket immediately on 90% of his passes. If he had time to set up, he could go downfield. And when I say Tua has a better win percentage, it means that Tua has won more games than they have. I guess I should have explained it better.

    Again, I refuse to smear Burrow, Herbert or Watson in order to prop up Tua. Find any time when I did that if you can. But in order to make your case, you constantly find intangible points to express it because you can't objectively do so. That does not go unseen during our discussion. It comes down to "I want to replace the QB because I do", which is cool. But don't mind if I have a different opinion.
     
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  9. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    What if it wasn't as much Grier at all ... but more Marvin Allen? IMO not impossible that Grier get's kicked upward into some type of VP/President of Ops type role while Allen handles the true roster building.

    Personally though, I am far more interested to see what happens on the offensive staff. I feel like Flores is safe, and our defensive staff is fine. The offense is a disaster though. We need an offensive guru to take the helm, install an ACTUAL offensive scheme and bring along an actual OL coaching staff and scheme to go along with. At this point, I'd like to see Tua return unless we somehow get a good deal on one of the elite dudes, but I don't see that happening. I just can't see giving up the resources (both draft and cap) needed to procure a Watson or Wilson level talent and then trotting out this same trash offense. Also, while being a little concerned about a knee jerk reaction, I do want to see Tua play much better next week against New England. Another dud and I'd be more willing to look at replacement, I'm just not convinced the cost for an elite QB is worth it and don't really favor going a medium Carr/Mayfield type. And the draft is just a bunch of Christian Ponders and JP Losman's lol.
     
  10. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yes I repeat my reply. By the way, I've been telling you what I wrote for ages. It still doesn't seem to register. You consistently ignore one of the best predictors of success.
     
  11. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    ****Whew!!!****

    It's gonna be a loooooonnnnnggggg offseason. Buckle in, folks.
     
  12. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind if you have a different opinion. The world would be a boring place if we all thought alike
     
  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Over/Under on how many more years till we win a SB? lol.. Lots more such offseasons in the future!
     
  14. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Once again, you're way off base.









    Okay, I was just kidding. I dig that we're all fans for some emotional reason, but it doesn't mean we can't be respectful when folks do their fanning differently. Personally, it's too easy to ignore people that I don't like, so when I kick up dust, it's just because it's my thing. Can't really expect to be the only one allowed to be dug in on a point of contention.
     
  15. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Looking at his stats over the season he is all over the map. He had a 4-5 game stretch where I was starting to believe IF he could stay healthy and the last 3 games have been a reality check.

    We need to fix this OL and running game so we can properly evaluate him. Plus I don’t want to trade our future for Watson. Give Tua one more year with a better line and then see where we’re at.
     
  16. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    So I guess u feel Tua is better than Burrow and Herbert because of his 12-8 record even though he failed to make playoffs with 2 key end of the season losses?
    Burrow and Herbert have far superior stats and one won his division and the other one will see what happens next Sunday.I thought the whole point of the sports is to get into playoffs and potentially get to SB?
    Nobody outside of a Tua fan would agree with your assessment because it makes no sense.
     
  17. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, man. I've been on board with Miami for 50 years now. I remember being happy to make the playoffs under Sparano and then Gase. Screw the fact that the first did it with smoke and mirrors and the second was a malignant narcissist. Never should have believed we turned the corner.

    But even for as unhappy as I was yesterday (and on the heels of last year's Buffalol game), I honestly see more reasons for optimism than I've seen since Marino left. Unlike some of you, whether we move forward with Tua or trade for Watson, it's a win-win as long as Flo and Grier just stop trying to overthink it. IMO, if Tua has another year and tanks, we can trade the assets saved from a Watson trade to get Young or Stroud or whichever QB is best in 2023.

    I just want to see us focus on foundation building first. With the right OL, we can plug almost anybody under center and expect results. I'll complain about QB when it's no longer a miracle for him to survive a game.
     
  18. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    They can.His name is Watson!
     
  19. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I don't want Watson. But I'm afraid Ross does, and he'll give way too much to get him.
     
  20. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    It's all good though man.U like Tua and I didnt like him at bama.Not as a person but as a player.So will see happens I personally think Ross will go all in on Watson.
     
  21. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Haha, I read that first sentence and thought to myself..... This mother ****er....
     
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  22. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    The whole point of sports is to win. Period. Tua has started 20 games and won .600 of them. That's a fact. If we extrapolate that over a whole season, he would have a 10-7 record, which should be good enough for the playoffs. This is with a trash line. This is with no rushing attack. This is with a receiving corps that is among the worst when it comes to drops.

    There are only so many QBs who play as well as Burrow and Herbert did from the start. We didn't have a chance to draft Burrow, so stop talking about him. Did we miss on Herbert? I'll give you that, so there's a win. But we have a guy who's played just over a season's worth of games and he's already displaying an ability to work well within the pro game. My question for you and every other person who thinks he's a stiff is what did you expect after two years? Are you giving up on Trevor Lawrence already? Justin Fields? If they played the way they've played in Dolphins uniforms, would you?

    Personally, after 20+ years of wanting competent play, who am I to be greedy enough to demand more now that we have it? Those dude's don't grow on trees. Complaining about missing on Herbert last season is counter-productive because it's actually possible that Tua's a good QB, even if Herbert is better. And hell yeah, I'm a 'Tua fan'. He's my quarterback. Since when is that a pejorative phrase? If we had Watson, I'd be a Watson fan. Shame on you if you're not the same way.
     
  23. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Oh I'm all in on Watson!
     
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  24. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Why not? I feel like Miami has all the pieces to be a real contender with a top QB like Watson.

    Assuming he is clear of the legal matters. Miami should all be in to land him, even if its involved throwing couple early picks....
     
  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I would be if he was my QB. The only difference between us is that I'm not proclaiming Tua to be the problem or Watson (at his price point) to be the answer. Am I a Tua fan? Yep. Am I a Tua stan? Nope. If he played for somebody else, I wouldn't be posting in a thread trying to bring him to Miami. But I see his potential and after seeing 20+ f*** ups in 20+ years at QB, I don't trust another non-organic fix.

    The fact that Ross is all in on Watson is all the proof I need that bringing him will result in another 20 years of mediocrity.
     
  26. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Im assuming your not a big fan of Watson as a player?

    From someone that has watched him in our division and absolutely hate the Texans, Watson is a TOP QB!!! POSSIBLY A top 5 QB, especially if he lands with Parker and Waddle...
     
  27. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I love DeShaun Watson. If we were talking about getting him for two #1s and a second, I'd be all in to get him. But when the price is three first rounders, a couple of second rounders and change, I don't think he's worth it. That mortgages any chance we have to improve once we get him. And trust me, his taking most of our cap space would put a lot of pressure on Grier to put a roster around him with what remains. In the end, I have two reasons for wanting to stick with Tua:
    1. I think we haven't scratched the surface of his potential and it's too soon to move on. He's going to be a top-10 QB really soon. Watson is a top-5 QB and the difference is significant.
    2. I don't trust Stephen Ross. His instincts suck *** and if he's for it, I'm against it. That sounds silly to most, but it's my opinion and I'm going to die on that hill.

    But don't mistake my Tua advocacy for ignorance. I'm not ever going to trash Watson, Burrow or Herbert, regardless of how much I like my dude. But if I scratch my head when he's being attacked, I'm going on record to counter some of the sillier rhetoric.
     
  28. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I loved Watson until I learned that he has poor control over his vices. I do not think Vice City is a good place for him. South Beach would kick his ***.
     
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  30. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    The man has problems. I don't want them to become the Dolphins' problems.
     
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  31. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    What pieces?

    A good defense. One good WR. A second WR who can't stay healthy and has like 2 good games a year. A league worst OL. Some JAGs everywhere else.

    And once we get Watson, we aren't doing much adding now or later. I feel like getting Watson as we are is ripe for us to mimic Watson's last active season.
     
  32. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Not just draft.His free agent signings have been terrible.
     
  33. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I have concerns about his situation. Getting him before its resolved would be a huge blunder for the Dolphins, IMO. Even if it's evaluated from only a PR standpoint, it's a horrible move. Can you imagine the billboards with him standing up and smiling in a Dolphins uniform with two beautiful young cheerleaders standing beside him? Ross and Grier are going to have to answer questions as to why they thought winning was important enough to ignore his alleged transgressions. The fact that Ross strongly encouraged him to settle the cases is evidence that as far as he is concerned, 20+ credible accounts of sexual impropriety (and at least two being investigated as criminal offenses) are okay. To make it all worse, if we lost Tua, multiple draft picks and dug a $40 million carve out into our roster and wound up having our new starting QB spend 6-17 games on the Commisoner's Exempt list, I'll probably become more of a general fan than I am right now. I might not be a fan after that. I love his on-field attributes but have my limits.
     
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  34. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Watson is most likely facing a suspension when he does return. Giving Tua a third year with an improved offensive line and a starting running back isn't the worst idea in the world. In fact, it's probably the most sound, level headed move we can make. Tua is getting a third year with this team. He's shown enough to deserve that shot, but he can't keep losing games like this in this fashion. In my opinion it's do or die next year for him. We should look at drafting someone too. If we do in fact swing for Watson, I will be totally fine with it as long as we can still improve the O line and running back positions.
     
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  35. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If we get Watson you improve WR and RB. You can ignore OL. He has proven he can play elite with as bad an OL as it gets (pass protection wise). But it was very clear he couldn't overcome the lack of at least a decent running game for short yardage situations.

    That would be a SB contender actually: our defense (minimum top 10, preferably better) + Watson + a decent running game + one more good WR. That's actually a scary team.
     
  36. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    The only way you get a decent run game is if your offensive is good at run blocking. I'm not sure where our actual run blocking current ranks, buy it certainly could stand to improve along with the actual running back position.
     
  37. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    That's the great thing about it. Our run block win rate is fairly good. It was at #9 a week ago:
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...opping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

    Our running issues are primarily at RB. So if you get Watson you can keep the current OL and get yourself a good RB and try to get another good WR. That's it and our offense should be very good. It's not a bad plan. All depends on Watson's legal issues of course.
     
  38. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    My God. These arguments are completely insane. Some of you Pro Tua people, at this point, are acting like you’re all suffering from battered wife syndrome.
    Wow. “No, it’s not his fault. It’s his job, it’s his boss at work making him act like this, etc, etc, etc. He’s actually really great.”
    I actually admire the blind belief.
    No, unfortunately, he is not the guy. Not here. Not now. Let’s see what happens. I highly doubt he is our starting QB next year. It sucks for him. He seems like a good guy, but this is pro sports. It happens. He’ll be fine. Time to look ahead.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2022
  39. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  40. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Ha! Good movie.
     
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