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Flores FIRED - Grier SAFE (Harbaugh NOT Coming)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Classic Ross lunacy, I’d consider hiring a first time coach. You know what, you just did and he defied the odds with a gutted roster. But you were too stupid to realize the person that chose Tua over Herbert and neglected our OL to this seasons detriment is/was your problem.
     
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  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Also I am not saying Grier doesn't deserve to be fired. Just saying the idea that Flores is hard to work with is not a new spin
     
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  3. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly, speculation here now but the fact Grier stays actually likely tells us Ross was a driving force behind that decision as well; not just Grier. The only guy out here is the HC that apparently wasn't happy with the decision. The coach needs to lead the team in that locker room not the GM. You shouldn't be siding with the GM over the coach when they should be working together. They're partners here.

    Yes Flores appears to have been quite abbrasive to his staff given all the changes on both sides of the ball, but if he's not getting the groceries he's ordering from the GM you're going to have that friction when trying to fit square pegs into round holes.
     
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  4. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    This has been reported for weeks.
     
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  5. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    They were never going to resign Fitz. Its not a sign of a rift.
     
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  6. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't dispute that either. It's evident by the constant turnover in the staff on both sides of the ball. However if you're the coach trying to execute your vision with your staff and you're being fed players that aren't a fit the pressure ends up on the coaches to make that happen. That's surely going to lead to that strained relationship amongst coaches. IF you aren't getting what you need to succeed from a talent standpoint whether your the HC, OC, or DC you're not going to be happy or successful.

    My prediction here; unless we hire the next Lombardi we'll be doing this dance in a short period of time when Grier is eventually found out and fired along with the next HC that won't be happy being saddled to a bad GM that somehow always ends up winning over the owner in the power struggle he eventually creates.
     
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  7. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    And this could be a good part of the trouble between Flores and Grier.
     
  8. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Not shocked or angry that Flores got canned. And it's obvious this was either a direct result of the Titans loss and/or Ross had a playoff mandate.

    Flores had some good things going, but he also struggled to show he was more than a Defensive coordinator. Messy relationship with staff and front office. Bad starts to all 3 seasons. Utter inability to get a decent offense and terrible job at assembling an offensive staff...

    You could make the argument to stay with him, but firing is not indefensible.

    Grier staying is mind boggling and the ONLY thing we can build hope around is maybe the idea that Flores' staff was the big issue in lack of OL and QB and offensive development in general. But I am LOATHE to give him another coach to pick and offseason to mess around with.

    It clearly seems that he made Flores the fall guy to Ross, I can only hope that it maybe it's actually true.

    As for who we get, Ross says he isn't taking Harbaugh away from Michigan, so who the eff knows.

    I'll hold some judgment until we start seeing interviews and a final hire, but this isn't a good start.
     
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  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, there's two sides to every story. Let's say that I don't like you, and you don't like me. We both work at the same place but I talk to the boss daily and you don't. How do you imagine that narrative will play out once one of us is fired?

    I'm not defending Flores here because maybe he is impossible to work with inside the organization. But on the field, he won 8 of the last 9 and nothing matters more than that. There's no way that happens if the players felt he was impossible to work with.
     
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  10. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Grier helped bring in Flores though because they were on the same page! Ultimately a player personnel decision or two got made that took them off the same page. We all know what that decision is; it's not hard to tell at this point. When that story broke earlier this season around week 4 or 5 or whatever that Herbert was Flores preferred choice I called this back then... I said the lines were being drawn for that eventual power struggle that will lead to the demise of this GM/HC; and here we are. It always ends up as a power struggle between the GM and the HC, and the current GM has been a part of that front office for the last how many coaches where it's ended up this way? There's a common theme there...
     
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  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I am not saying that he is impossible to work with. That is obvious that he isn't as a lot of players like him.

    Flores had some flaws. IMO, I didn't think they were firable with the 8-1 end of the season. However, I am also not making the decisions. I do not agree with it. However, I cannot igore what I have been hearing all season from supposed insiders. Especially when everything that is being said today coinsides with what they are saying.
     
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  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully you realize that the Titans are the #1 team in the AFC and "the problem" wasn't losing to the Titans...that's a game we're not supposed to win in December. The real problem was the 1-7 start. Why were we 1-7 when we had a roster that could finish the year 8-1?
     
  13. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It 150% is in my mind. I said it when the story came out earlier that Flores wanted Herbert instead of Tua; then all the Watson talk started. I said it then that lines were being drawn right then and there by Flores and Grier and this would likely be the outcome and here we are.

    Two guys that need to work together ultimately couldn't; and we keep the one that's been here the longest through all the other regime changes and power struggles between the GM/front office and the coaches. The GM/Head coach power struggle is a regular occurrence in Miami at this point.
     
  14. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I do still think that game is a problem though. Losing is ok. Getting blown out isn't.
     
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  15. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Because our Qb missed 2 half games and 4 games during that stretch and we were relying on 4 rookie starters on an already young roster. This roster wasn’t set up for success to start the season. That’s on Grier.
     
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  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but it was clear as day that Fitzpatrick was shocked when he was benched and Flores wasn't happy about it. That's where the QB rift started- Flores was forced to bench the QB he felt gave them the best chance to win.

    And looking back, maybe starting Tua too early was a smart choice. Maybe not. But a GM forcing it is wrong no matter how we look at it. Let the coach be a coach.
     
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  17. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed and I remember you writing about the „Herbert struggle“. I’m just saying maybe Ross thinks, because Spielman and Ireland are doing decent jobs now he should stick with the GM, because all HCs that left here didn’t make it elsewhere and Grier did draft some good players, he just picked the wrong QB as it seems. Like I said it feels like we’re(Ross) doing the wrong thing again. But we’ll see, really interested on who our new HC will be…
     
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  18. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I can't argue any of that but Flores handling of Tua makes it hard to give him the benefit of the doubt
     
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  19. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Spielman got fired today. Just FYI.
     
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  20. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    Gotta think the 21 draft saved Grier
     
  21. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If that's what he's thinking that just shows how unqualified he is to be making these decisions. You can't let those past things dictate your future; especially when you have the ability to look at your tenure as the owner and see this pattern between GM and HC repeating itself yet again. You need to look at Grier's history drafting and managing the organization on the football side. His input was all over the Flores hiring along with Ross; so why does he skate free when it fails based on what appears to be a decision where the GM wasn't listening and giving the HC what he wanted. Again; the wrench here though is what part did Ross have in the selection of Tua? IMO based on what we've seen today and if it is indeed true this rift that damaged the Flores/Grier partnership is the QB decision; and the GM still has a job after the owner fires the HC; that tells me the owner had some say there. I hope that's not true, but it wouldn't be the first time Stephen Ross as owner has stuck his nose where it doesn't belong.
     
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  22. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    don’t forget Stills too
     
  23. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    The bolded part *2.

    Grier is a holdover from the Irleland days, meaning the stink of Ireland is still with this team.

    This team is becoming more and more impossible to cheer for every year. I'll always be a Dolphins fan, but it's just impossible to care what happens with this team anymore. Only a madman would base their happiness on the results from a team that screws up this much year in and year out.
     
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  24. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    People might be mad but it was the correct decision. His in game coaching was embarrassing. He couldn’t build a coaching staff. He actively worked against the number 5 pick we drafted wether or not tua is trash that will get you fired in the nfl.
     
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  25. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly! Dysfunction is all Grier knows in his time here. It's just no surprise we're here again; and in the past it's always seemed/felt like the coaches have been the scapegoats and failures largely due to the roster problems we've had. Only one guy has been a consistent part of all that and he's now responsible to hire his 2nd head coach at a time when his QB has finished year 2 not really showing much. What quality HC candidate wants to sign up for that? Just another knee jerk half measure from Stephen Ross.
     
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  26. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    The org is preaching that ‘failed relationships’ or inability to build relationships is the reason they don’t want Flores back. And I actually take them at their word on this.

    Flores torched and salted the earth with Minkah. Forcing our hand to dump him.
    Jordan Howard was off the team in like 3 weeks after signing for 8 million. He has proven he is still an NFL player. Better than malcom brown… something happened there.
    Omar Kelly is claiming Van Noy was cut because Flores didn’t like Van Noys attitude and didn’t want him around.

    Jim Caldwell was an offensive assistant and QB coach brought in. But quickly left due to health problems. Some Rumours he bailed because Flores. Caldwell is now interviewing for head coaching jobs this cycle.

    Fuller broke his finger and was gone. Not even seen on the sidelines in street clothes on game days. People claimed it was mental health stuff (with no proof). Clearly something happened and he had no interest in being around the team. No indication Will Fuller has ever been mentally unstable. So there may have been problems there for all we know.

    I think Tua was the tipping point. If Tua wasn’t Flores’ cup of tea. Fine. But there is still a relationship to build with every player.

    It sounds like he was even cold shouldering Grier towards the end.

    Say what you want it is still a work environment. You need to build unity, especially as the coach! If you seem to have a problem with everyone. Maybe you are the problem?
     
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  27. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think the anger and disbelief is because Flores has been fired; I mean it is yes, but not because of his coaching. It's about the general dysfunction that continues in this organization IMO.

    Flores game, time and staff management is ultimately part of his downfall like we all knew it would be. However he's the damn head football coach. He's responsible for that team in the locker room and on the field. IF it's true he did not want Tua at QB and wanted Herbert, which ultimately led to him banging the table for Watson then what that should tell you is this is beyond the head coach. This is a dysfunctional relationship gone wrong yet again while Chris Grier comes out grinning and smiling. It's the GM's job to build a roster that fits the vision of the coach. If you aren't doing that as the GM then of course your coaches will fail and be frustrated, and you'll end up with a fractured relationship.

    I think the anger here comes from the fact one is gone and not the other. At least that's what it is for me. This is just another stupid decision from Ross.
     
  28. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Minkah wanted a defined position. He didn’t want to play a Swiss Army knife in our cover 0 defense. He would have been insane in our system.

    And can you blame Flo for being that your first HC gig was tied to a guy who’s missed games every season and was taken over a pro bowl franchise QB?
     
  29. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "we weren't working well as an organization"
    "its really communication and collaboration....without that you can't win and sustain yourself in the long term"
    - some quotes from Stephen Ross today.

    Then why are you keeping one half of the communication and collaboration problem?! Especially when you keep the one consistent piece that's been here for 10+ years through multiple communication/collaboration problems.
     
  30. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    It should be noted that the story that said Flores wanted Herbert also said Grier tries to give Flores the players he wants. If we are going to believe the Herbert part we have to believe it all which means roster issues are on Flores as well.
     
  31. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    This I agree with zero reason grier didn’t sent packing also. I feel like ross didn’t want to have to do the entire hiring process again. Because if the new coach they hire moves on from tua then there is zero reason grier should be here still as his hands are all over that failure.
     
  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    My anger comes from firing a coach and two minutes later, the owner says he doesn't have any prospects to replace him with. I'm sorry, this isn't a McDonalds where you fire the manager and just hire anyone off the street to give similar performance- we're talking an NFL coach here. You don't fire someone that important without a game-plan moving forward.

    If we hire Harbaugh, okay. I don't love the move but at least I can understand it. But to say you have no clue what you'll do next, that just bewilders me.
     
  33. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I think the story goes like more like this. Let's say, I don't like you, and you don't like me, and our boss lives in NY and really has no idea what is really going on, and he sides with the person that he has known for a long time despite his obvious lack of expertise.
     
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  34. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Did not expect this at all. Thought he earned his final year on contract. Must have been some real division between him and Grier / front office personal.

    Maybe he was critiquing griers loves or lack of moves?

    Howvere if we are rebuilding we need a complete wipe and a new GM also. This makes little sense IMHO.

    I expect this means TUA is out as well, wish them both luck moving forward as they both are stand up characters.

    Also I never hear this crap about players complaining from belicheat!

    Flo will get another Headcoaching gig probably at Houston….
     
  35. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    What bugs me most about this, is this is one of those few years where you can feel good about the Dolphins going forward after winning 8 of 9 down the stretch.

    There better be a plan for a replacement already in place.
     
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  36. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    hopefully there is a plan and he’s talking out his ***. To think he just did it for some other reason especially after the rally is confusing. I expected him to get one more year! Something else must have happened behind the scene
     
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  37. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    The only way this is justifiable, and I’m still not sold on that, is if:
    1) the players pushed for this- hard to believe considering how we played down the stretch
    2) you have a better coach lined up- Harbaugh is the only one this makes sense for. Maybe they have to play the game to not piss off the Michigan fanbase

    Otherwise, this is just a boneheaded decision that makes no sense and feels like a GM covering up his tracks for some head scratcher/boneheaded draft picks.
     
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  38. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    It wasn't just the loss but the game being, essentially, non-competitive. It was a microcosm of his entire tenure.

    Also, it's the fact that he was fired this quickly. Ross clearly had criteria for Flores that wasn't met, so move on immediately so as to not fall behind in the carousel.
     
  39. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Minkah wasn't open to being flexible to the coaches visions for using him.

    Howard was done here before he started. Old; slow; injured. That's a BAD signing by your GM.

    Van Noy we can't really comment as we don't have much to go on; but if he's not conducive to the environment you're trying to create bringing him in as a vet you trusted to help grow that team chemistry; then you have to do what you have to do, no?

    Caldwell; who really knows but there's no doubt Flores struggled with his staffs on both sides of the ball. So where there's smoke there's fire likely.

    Fuller was another bad signing by Grier. It's been one of his big missions to recover the careers of guys with persistent injury problems; any surprise this signing blew up in our faces? That's on Grier IMO; not Flores.

    Tua is most certainly the tipping point IMO. It creates that cold shoulder towards Grier becuase you're the head football coach and you're telling the GM the players you do and don't want to fit the vision of your system and the GM is giving you the opposite of what you asked for; is there any wonder that relationship soured? Why are we blaming the coach for that? That's on the GM; and likely the owner as well because we know he loves the splashes and the big names.

    Collaboration and communication were Stephen Ross' big words of the day. Both of those things require the effort of multiple people. The GM is supposed to serve the coach in the grand scheme of things, not the other way around. Yet the GM still has his job... That's a major problem. Relationships fail due to people not seeing eye to eye. What we've seen here again is the power struggle between a GM and a Head Coach where the GM was a big part in hiring the Head Coach. Neither should have a job today because they've both failed at the communication & collaboration side of things leaving us to where we are today. This should sound awfully familiar to the last few coach firings/searches.
     
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  40. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Ross has figured out a way to make more money with constant rebuilding? I can’t recall an owner who has turned over staff as often.
     

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