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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    If you believe that, you probably wouldn't score well on the Wonderlic.
     
  2. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Apparently
     
  3. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Marino was like an idiot savant. He got it done with his extreme natural talent and competitiveness, not his smarts.
     
  4. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Steve Young: 33
    Drew Brees: 28

    Not quite sure if it really says something, but interesting nevertheless…
     
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  5. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    He was football smart though fake spike and other plays show that but I definitely wouldn’t call Marino a genius…
     
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  6. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    He could read a defense though and in his line of work, that's all that mattered
     
  7. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    There are actual research papers published on how predictive Wonderlic is on a variety of things since it's used in a range of occupations. And at least one research paper looked into correlations to position-specific performance in the NFL:
    https://doi.org/10.1080/08959280902970401

    Not sure if you can access that publication, but it basically showed near zero correlation between all kinds of QB performance measures and Wonderlic test scores. So no, Wonderlic doesn't matter for QBs whether you're looking at rating, Y/A, games started etc.

    Let me post 2 tables from that paper:
    Screen Shot 2022-01-19 at 4.35.47 PM.png


    Screen Shot 2022-01-19 at 4.36.13 PM.png
     
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  8. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    A test so important they aren't even giving it anymore
     
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  9. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    "I thought the NFL would have been a lot harder than it is"
     
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  10. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Such an unfortunate quote. One of those moments he’ll think back on years later and cringe with embarrassment.
     
  11. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And Fiedler probably had a perfect score.
     
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  12. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, he was chosen in the second round. Want to know why? Because back in 2001, QBs who were considered short of stature for their position and QBs who played their college career in the spread offense were often looked down upon. Also, ironically, he was said to have a weak arm.

    Besides, where Brees was drafted doesn't change the fact that one can't say that so and so lacks work ethic because they didn't have a full grasp of the offense their first year.
     
  13. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    He was smart enough to let his natural talent work. There was an interview with Bill Walsh once where he said he sat down with Marino to talk Xs and Os, and Marino got frustrated and said "look man, I just look for the open man, and when I see him I hit him". Marino had more of a sandlot mentality. He relied on his great vision, instincts, pocket presence, lightning quick release, and rocket arm with pinpoint accuracy, not his smarts. It was all natural talent and competitiveness. He was born to be a great QB.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
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  14. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Right. We were told OVER AND OVER that Tua was SO SMART and SO ACCURATE that it made up for his lack of height and arm strength. Forget the hip injury, Tua was the most NFL ready.

    Now it's like those this were never said.
     
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  16. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like listening to a bunch of.politicans.
     
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  17. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Taking a little longer to learn something doesn't mean you're not smart. But go off, I guess.
     
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  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Until Tua got hurt in college and Burrow had that incredible season, folks did think Tua was the most NFL ready. 2nd place would have been Lawrence before that year unfolded or even early on. Burrow did something spectacular his senior year, he had a massive jump in maturity and poise between those two seasons. He honestly looked like a 10 year NFL vet that final season in college.

    I was with you pre-draft saying, "Yeah, Tua looks good out there...but so do his backups. Look who they're throwing to, and who's blocking for them. If Tua's so great, why didn't that Alabama offense miss a beat when Tua went down?" I completely get that argument because I was making that argument! Tua looked great in a great offense. Now he looks average in a lousy offense.

    My argument today is that if you couldn't really judge him at Alabama, you can't really judge him today either. He's already here and a lock to start next year, so we need to get him in an offense where he has a real chance to be successful.

    But at the same time, the clock is definitely ticking...just like it was for Chad Henne. I don't think he should have washed out of Miami but he ended up being a victim of circumstance. Tua's on that path as well, and he's going to have to prove something next year regardless of how much the offense develops. It sucks but that's life in the NFL...and I'm expecting him to get one more season.
     
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  19. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    If I remember correctly you were like me and didn't want Tua.We both wanted Burrow and it wasn't even close.Tua is exactly what I expected him to be and unfortunately so is Burrow.
     
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  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I watched LSU that entire year and I couldn't stop saying, "Guys, Burrow is the next Joe Montana...you have to see him play." And the thing is, their schedule was packed with top-10 opponents, they were taking out everyone week after week. His poise in the pocket was the best I think I've ever seen in college...it was so clear he was a generational QB.

    The other part of that is that I saw him in a few games the season before that...nowhere near the same QB. He just evolved in that offseason somehow and nobody saw it coming. That's what was so shocking- he entered that year around the 22nd ranked QB. He wasn't even projected to be drafted.
     
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  21. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I first saw him in a bowl game the year before he took off and was impressed.When I was truly sold it was a game he had against Texas and I saw star potential..
    Flores screwed us on getting him with putting in Fitz in 2019.I truly think we go 1-15 if we stuck with Rosen.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
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  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I thought that the other day- if we didn't over-achieve that first season, we'd have Burrow right now (it's been leaked we would have taken him and that we tried to trade up). I celebrated those five wins but man, I don't feel that way anymore.
     
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  23. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    Unfortunately I agree with you. Flores won the battle but lost the war.
     
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  24. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I hated those wins because I wanted Burrow bad
    I was never impressed with Tua at Bama.
     
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  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    At least Henne was big and strong and a cannon arm. People keep bringing up these guys who struggled like Tua, but they had physical traits that gave hope. Yes people said he was a lock, but that was all based on Alabama's success, and the high powered offense, assuming that Tua must be great since he's on that offense.

    I can say that Tua hasn't been the driving force of any offense since I've been watching him.

    That's incredibly concerning.
     
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  26. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

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  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Isn't it amazing that Jax is such a dumpster fire that no one is really asking if Trever Lawrence is a bust, even though all stats seem to point that way?

    Also, geeze Baker Mayfield.
     
  28. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    He‘s better then Tannehill and our line stinks too. I would like to give him one more year, because there doesn’t seem to be much out there atm unless you want to go after Rodgers or Wilson but I would doubt they’d come here…
     
  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If Lawrence doesn't vastly improve in year 2 he is a bust. Really good QBs will overcome adversity. Also, he has some serious accuracy issues even when not being pressured. It's not like the film says he's making all these great throws but just getting pressured all the time with no one open. He often misses open enough receivers.
     
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  30. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Ha. Yeah. I often bring this up in certain QB discussions.
     
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  31. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I was not high on Lawrence coming out either. All these people talking about can't miss prospect, he just looked pretty average to me.
     
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  32. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

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    I don't know how accurate this is, but if it is, it's a problem:

     
  33. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Urgh.
    So sick and tired of nonsense. The media roundabout is like some junk 'Hello!' magazine. Drama and nonsense for clicks and to fill time.

    So far I've seen:

    Grier is a snake.
    Grier is one of the most likeable GM's in the league.
    Flores is liked.
    Flores is disliked.
    Tua is hardworking.
    Tua is lazy.
    The players like Tua.
    The players don't like Tua.
    Tua is accurate.
    Tua is not accurate.
    It's the coaching.
    It's the talent.
    Ross likes Watson.
    Ross doesn't like Watson.

    I really wish they'd all shut up.
    Just let us know facts when you have them and keep all the analysis and speculation to yourselves.
    I realise that would mean we'd get a lot less media coverage and I'm fine with that. No. Not fine. I think it would be a positive win.
     
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  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I haven't watched Lawrence in the pros much, but in college he was just a super hard worker that figured out how to get things done. He was often under pressure in college as well and managed to get the ball to receivers accurately...but thinking back, he'd often throw the ball at the 4, 5, or 6 second mark as he scrambled, ducked, dove and weaved his way through traffic. Maybe that doesn't translate.

    Great kid though, very high football IQ. He was always prone to mistakes but he always bounced back as well- I'm hoping that happens for him in the NFL.
     
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  35. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not just football. This is the media in every aspect they report on. We have more information at our fingertips and there's so much bull and manipulation going on you can't tell fact from fiction and it has a paralyzing effect. Most people just choose to believe whatever supports their biases. Those of us looking for truth are more and more just turning off the news in all it's outlets.
     
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  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. In a world where clicks = profits, the vast majority of the media goes for a "quantity over quality" approach. The more trash you pump out there, the better...even if it's in direct contradiction to what you posted an hour ago. It really doesn't matter because if you click, they win.

    So here's my advice- don't click. Or if you do, remember the media outlet if its a trash article, there's nothing of substance, they're reporting 1000 words based on a two-word Tweet, etc. Remember those names and set your browsers to block content from those sites. It works the same way as blocking someone here...you set it and forget it.

    Because here's what it does. Sure, you don't see that content anymore, but it's also telling Google that the site is crap. The algorithm listens and overreacts...those sites quickly stop ranking with a few hundred quick exits and a few dozen blocks. And if it's the Herald and the Sentinel doing that in S. Florida, block them! That's the only way you can tell their publishing desks to stop shady journalism. Same thing for ESPN, etc. Hold them accountable by understanding how the internet works.
     
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  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Best thing that happened to Tua in the last game is he remembered, finally, he has legs and can threaten with them..He won the freakin game with his legs NOT his arm.

    If he doesn’t carry over this trait next year and accentuate it Then he’s not fulfilling his potential and is not very smart.

    He saw first hand what Fitz could do with his legs..

    Tua has one more year to elevate his game to another level, he’s got to work very hard this offseason strengthening his body, if he doesn’t he’s a goner.
     
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  38. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    He's really not a running QB. He never has been. That wouldn't be a good approach.
     
  39. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Not be a running quarterback persee. But, when the opportunity is there to scramble and run 8-12 yards for a first down. He has the speed and elusiveness to do it. It's a tough thing to learn.
     
  40. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Can't say I agree. The last two seasons he has 3.0 yards per attempt. That's Mac Jones and Tom Brady territory (2.9 yards per attempt). He was never very fast in college, and the hip injury has only made things worse.
     
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