1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Report: Flores Suing The NFL, Dolphins & Giants

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Feb 1, 2022.

  1. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

    362
    368
    63
    Jan 12, 2018
    Was he practicing systemic racism when he hired a black GM, a black HC, and drafted a Samoan QB? Would it be systemic racism to fire Flores and hire another minority in McDaniel?
     
    daphins and resnor like this.
  2. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin Active Member

    105
    49
    28
    Jan 5, 2008
    Daytona Beach
    Flores is a snitch. NFL teams/coaches/gms don't want snitches on their team, not good for business. Johnathan Martin and Flores could be besties.
     
    Pauly, Finatik, daphins and 2 others like this.
  3. Peak clown world in Fin land. A buffoonish owner now snake-bit by the same people he was so hungry to pander too. A sycophantic, wall-flower GM that would have been fired years ago in any functioning meritocracy. And a spiteful, embittered, inarticulate, race grifter as an ex HC capitalizing on the general clownish state of affairs that currently warps a society comprised mostly of midwit agitators gripped by a mass Dunning-Kruger effect. The only silver lining is if the whole structure gets razed to the ground and new, fresh, principled people replace this rotting compost pile. Nothing will matter much until this happens and this has been apparent for the better part of a decade. This week's events just, once again, demonstrate the human refuse that Ross has entrusted, and his lack of ability to do anything right when it comes to actual football decisions. But, hey, at least we have a pretty roof.
     
    resnor likes this.
  4. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

    131
    92
    28
    Jan 14, 2022
    My take on the issue is that the organization is under tremendous pressure to reconcile the fact that another team that started rebuilding about the same time -- the Cincinnati Bengals -- is playing in the Super Bowl this year. Note the recent news -- probably stemming from an intentional leak by the organization -- that the Dolphins attempted to trade for Joe Burrow. They have to let the fanbase know they tried to be in the Bengals' situation.

    Then consider Grier's safety while Flores is fired. The story within the organization has to be that everyone was on board with getting the top pick, but Flores. So he's the fall guy. Now of course Flores retaliates -- "I was just doing my job of winning and got fired for it."

    At the root of the issue is the league's dependence on rare quarterbacks for winning Super Bowls. That can put an organization in disarray as it attempts to find that needle in a haystack. If Ross was indeed hellbent on tanking in 2019, he should've hired an interim coach who was on board with it and not signed Ryan Fitzpatrick. A patsy coach combined with Josh Rosen season-long would've all but assured the top pick.

    So while the league has some blame for rule changes that make quarterbacks so important, Ross is also to blame for failing to ensure that the entire organization, most notably the HC, was on the same page in the tanking effort.
     
  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Is it really fair to say they had similar records when we know the entire organization was working against Flores to prevent him from winning year one?
     
    Hooligan and hitman8 like this.
  6. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,818
    4,664
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    We don't KNOW that. Just because Flores said it doesn't mean it's true.
     
    Finatik likes this.
  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Dude, we pretty much knew that. We know they gutted the team. We know we made Rosen the starter. We know players asked to be traded. We know Gase left because "he wanted to win now." We know the team signed 20+ players after the roster cut-down to 53.

    There's no way anyone with any level of competence can look at that 2019 roster and say they wanted to win.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
    mooseguts and hitman8 like this.
  8. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,818
    4,664
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    I agree they had a bad roster but you can't say the organization was "working against" Flores. He had to know what he signed up for. I can't imagine he agreed to coach the Dolphins with aspirations of winning the Super Bowl in year one. He knew it was a rebuild.
     
    resnor and dolphin25 like this.
  9. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

    131
    92
    28
    Jan 14, 2022
    Right, but the organization's goals and those of the HC were apparently in conflict. Probably the best measure of a HC's performance is the degree to which his team is outperforming what would be expected on the basis of its talent level. If I'm a head coach who's trying to win and establish a reputation as a great head coach and some longevity in that position in the league, then if you hand me a roster you're trying to lose with, I'm going to try to win with it nonetheless. Hell, the refrain about Flores after year one was all about how much better he did than would be expected with that ridiculous roster.

    Again, a management error by Ross in not ensuring that all the important people were on the same page. Hire an interim coach and make sure the personnel he has to work with will lose games. You don't even have to tell him the goal is tanking -- he'll lose anyway.
     
    M1NDCRlME likes this.
  10. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

    1,461
    1,234
    113
    Dec 29, 2013
    He certainly would have got a job somewhere even if it wasn't this cycle
     
    Pauly and dolphin25 like this.
  11. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,818
    4,664
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    He shouldn't have taken the job then. I'm sure he was on board with whatever plan they gave him before they hired him.

    I know he thinks he's God's gift to coaching as he has been proclaiming in these interviews, but he knew it was a total rebuild.
     
    resnor and daphins like this.
  12. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

    131
    92
    28
    Jan 14, 2022
    Right, but rebuilds don't necessarily entail tanking. I'm not sure they told him from the outset that they wanted him to lose games. A first-time head coach could be part of a rebuild and establish a great coaching reputation nonetheless -- all he has to do is outperform what's expected on the basis of the talent he's given.
     
  13. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,818
    4,664
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    Alleged tanking. This will not be proven.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  14. Puzzlemaster34

    Puzzlemaster34 New Member

    7
    6
    3
    Feb 2, 2022
    He was selected to be Head Coach when "Tank for Tua" was going on. You are correct he knew what was going on and that Ross didn't care if he won games that first year. I think Ross was surprised that we won some games with the depleted roster and asked him to not try as hard to win. I don't know any coach who will loose on purpose, so maybe Ross should have tried a different approach. (Like Pay Fitzpatrick to fake an injury)
     
    resnor likes this.
  15. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

    131
    92
    28
    Jan 14, 2022
    Some of the more perplexing decisions the team has made over the past three years are becoming clear as this big picture situation crystallizes. Most notably has been a conflict all along between 1) an organization that is taking a long-term developmental view of its talent acquisition and development (i.e., tanking and starting a QB who may not have been ready to play), and 2) a first-time head coach whose priority is winning now and establishing a good reputation for himself. That explains the handling of Tua, most importantly. I suspect Flores was ordered to insert Tua in 2020 despite that the team was on a roll with Fitzpatrick and the pass offense was playing so well with him.

    It's little wonder a guy becomes "difficult to work with" when what he's being asked to do is completely at odds with his establishing a reputation as a good head coach and standing behind his players who want to win. This guy took a rebuild/tanking situation and turned it into something far more than was expected of it, yet was undermined by the organization. The organization should've realized it had a star as a head coach and not necessarily a star at QB (Tua) and made decisions with that in mind.
     
  16. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,818
    4,664
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    They weren't "on a roll" in 2020. They were 3-3, Fitzpatrick had 10 TDs and 7 INTs and looked horrible in his last game against the Jets despite what the score says.
     
    resnor, texanphinatic and Fireland like this.
  17. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

    1,461
    1,234
    113
    Dec 29, 2013
    They forced him to put in Tua but couldn't force him to put in Rosen?
     
    resnor likes this.
  18. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

    131
    92
    28
    Jan 14, 2022
    TD to INT ratio is a poor way to measure QB play:
    In terms of EPA per pass dropback -- the strongest predictor of winning in football -- the Dolphins were 9th in the league at the time Tua was inserted in 2020. There is no guarantee they would've sustained that level of play with Fitzpatrick, as his previous career was certainly inconsistent with it, but there was certainly far less of a guarantee they would sustain it with a rookie QB who'd never taken a snap. If you're in Flores's position at the time -- a first-time HC trying to build a reputation and vouch for his players who want to win -- you're certainly wanting to continue on with Fitzpatrick. He gave the team a far better chance of winning than a typical rookie QB.

    https://theathletic.com/1452369/201...numbers-based-football-analysis/?redirected=1
     
  19. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,818
    4,664
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    Spare me the formulas. Fitzpatrick is a stiff and always will be. His run was over here.
     
  20. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

    131
    92
    28
    Jan 14, 2022
    We can spare you the formulas all day, but that has no relevance to Brian Flores in 2020.
     
  21. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    people can't cry on one side and not the other.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
  22. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    and other minorities as well. who is going want to now hire a minority for fear of being sued?
     
    canesz06 likes this.
  23. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    1,085
    1,758
    113
    Jun 22, 2008
    What, this isn't the mofia. All indications, including actions stated in the lawsuit seem to show Flores is a man of at least some moral standing. Ross, on the other hand, we know is shiesty.

    I'd rather lose with integrity. I believe the right kind of people would be attracted to the team and we'd develop a certain culture that is known to do the right thing by it's players, by it's business handlings and that in the end would lead to wins and a team fans can be proud of.

    I mean, you could argue with me, and tell me I'm naive, but we've had a decade of doing it the wrong way and we've been exposed again and again. Let's try doing the right thing for a change.
     
    mlb1399 and M1NDCRlME like this.
  24. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    I find it interesting those that don't achieve blame. Those that do achieve give themselves credit for hard work. I don't know a single successful person that did not put in hard work to get where they are. Wonder why Fillipino's, Taiwanese, and Indian Americans do so well economically in this country?
     
  25. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    1,085
    1,758
    113
    Jun 22, 2008
    Hispanics are up and coming. They have figured out they can start the businesses they already have the skills to do.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  26. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  27. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    honest question. 2 brothers from same family. Both 100% minority. One is loved and adored in school and goes on to great things in his life. The other gets in trouble and goes to jail, his life is not what it could have been. Was he oppressed and his successful brother was not? How does that work exactly?
     
    Finatik likes this.
  28. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    *****************

    Guys, we've got a few posts that are wandering too wide off the thread subject. We can't wander off into the full subject of race, racism and politics.

    Please keep this tied to the football and the topic at hand.

    Thanks.

    *****************
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  29. Puzzlemaster34

    Puzzlemaster34 New Member

    7
    6
    3
    Feb 2, 2022
    All this talk about Flores ruining his career by being really bad in his first year is foolish. Flores was given a five year contract instead of a 4 year contract because everyone knew the Dolphins would be bad that year. Flores attempt of not ruining his career by winning games his first year (and yes he over achieved) is in the forefront of his attempt to cover up his own failures the last two years. We lost 7 games in a row this year!!!!!! Because from all accounts he was a terrible person to work with and we had bad assistant coaches. That's on Flores!
     
    Daytona Fin likes this.
  30. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    7,480
    5,637
    113
    Mar 18, 2009
    Re; Ross' statement, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks".
     
  31. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,323
    4,012
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    So he shouldn't say anything? Then you would be posting "how come he doesn't come out with a statement against this".
     
    resnor, canesz06 and dolphin25 like this.
  32. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    7,480
    5,637
    113
    Mar 18, 2009
    LOL...no sir. I most certainly would not have said that. And, with all due respect...to suggest that is really rather presumptuous of you.

    It just read as way too defensive to me. Specifically, this part: "I am a man of honor and integrity and cannot let them stand without responding," and "I take great personal exception to these malicious attacks, and the truth must be known. His allegations are false, malicious and defamatory."

    If he would've just said: "I welcome that investigation and I am eager to defend my personal integrity, and the integrity and values of the entire Miami Dolphins organization" and left it at that I'd find him to be A) much more believable, and B) smarter.

    JMHO.
     
    resnor likes this.
  33. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,323
    4,012
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    I should have said 'those that think like you" to be more accurate. MY bad. You missed the point that is it doesn't matter if he said something, nothing or everything. Someone who grab onto that.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  34. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    7,480
    5,637
    113
    Mar 18, 2009
    :huh1:
     
  35. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

    3,893
    3,087
    113
    Mar 6, 2010
    Or becuse we drafted a fragile QB who missed 4 full games and 2 1/2 games, our GM hasn’t been able to assemble a respectable OL since he got here, we were relying on 4 rookie starters and our 2 corners(which our entire defensive approach relies on) were banged up.
     
    dolphin25, Hooligan and M1NDCRlME like this.
  36. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

    1,801
    857
    113
    Jul 31, 2011
    Hollywood, Florida
    This is the one that cracks me up the most. People hate ross so much and I get it hes king clown shoes but if they could force flores to do anything then why would he have to offer 100k for him to lose. If they really really wanted rosen in hell he could of put in the call to get fitz traded. You guys think ross wanted tua sitting on the bench in the ravens game. He clearly had zero control of what was going on with the team.
     
    resnor, Daytona Fin and dolphin25 like this.
  37. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    that has nothing to with it, Dolphins lost because the owner is racist ;) ;)
     
    mlb1399 likes this.
  38. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    Since 2014? That seems like an artificially arbitrary cut-off date. Who have we had as QB since 2014? Ryan Tannehill and a cast of losers.
     
    resnor likes this.
  39. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014

     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
  40. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...s-lawsuit-dolphins-giants-cowboys/6638094001/

    Via USA Today, Jerry Jones:

    "“I can see it’s an area, one of many, that we can do better,” Jones said Wednesday from the hallway behind his stadium suite overlooking Senior Bowl practices. “The area has some good attention. This is obvious if you look through that that the league and coaches are trying to improve there.”

    Jones, who also serves as the Cowboys’ general manager, said he didn’t “have anything to say about how any other team goes about its interview or goes about its process” and could not speak to specific allegations against the Giants, Dolphins and Broncos. But as an owner in conversation with fellow owners, he’s aware of the dialogue.

    “I think the fact that it’s an issue shows not only the league’s willingness to address and do better,” Jones said. “I think the fact that it’s being discussed as to how the Rooney Rule or what drives the Rooney Rule could be better. In the case of coach Flores’ complaint, he’s saying it could be better and the processes create positive result for the league.”"
     
    KeyFin likes this.

Share This Page