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Report: Flores Suing The NFL, Dolphins & Giants

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Feb 1, 2022.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Woah, that's a major endorsement. The league won't be happy about Jones changing their narrative.
     
  2. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Flores is now claiming (To ESPN's Jay Williams), Bill Belichick influenced the NYG decision to hire Brian Daboll. He has no evidence to back up this claim, of course. He's starting to sound paranoid and delusional.
     
  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is still the league narrative. That there is an issue and that they can do better overall. Just the instances provided by Flores are false.
     
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  4. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Trust me, he will sing a different tune within hours.
    You never know when he’s drunk. And goodell is going to get Jones in line..
     
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  5. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    You could hear it in the interview the guy thinks he's gods gift. It's also funny, that it seems like we picked the only honest and thorough guy from the Cheatriots. That guy came here from an organization that's known for cheating and when he has to do it with us it's like "hell no"...
     
  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    This was a piece on NFL.com right when Brian Flores was hired.

    Re-reading that now the recent rumours that came out saying that Flores are polar opposite stories. Which is the truth? Combine the stories with the fact that Flores never lost the locker-room and the player comments I heard all supported him, and the fact he never gave up on seemingly dead seasons but managed lead the team to win streaks and it's the stories about Flores as being impossible to work with that don't add up to me. Add to that the comments below about respect, character, trust, and winning, and that matches up completely with him not giving up on seasons, inspiring people, and not wanting to tank or lose ever.

    Hopefully we'll learn enough of the truth about all this one way or another, to know what happened, but to me, right now, Flores is being honest here, and my doubts are greater towards Ross.

    Oh, and I will say, there's difference between the race allegations and ideas and the Dolphins treatment of their HC and team. Honestly, my main concern is with the latter. It's the Dolphins issue. The league race issue is bigger and more complex and there's a lot more there for me to listen to and consider and understand.

    The link is below, I've copied several key paragraphs but you should read the whole thing.
    Is this the real Flores? I think so. So did he change around completely, or did he find himself a strictly upright man in an organisation that wanted to bend the rules soon became the black sheep (no racial overtones intended)?


    https://www.nfl.com/news/brian-flores-career-as-coach-marked-by-personal-approach-0ap3000001014891

    "Brian was young and nervous, but clearly very intelligent, very driven, and very passionate. All of that came through pretty quickly," says Pioli, now an executive with the Falcons. "The other thing I learned about him was, he was clearly wiser than his years. When I would ask him personal questions, his answers were not that of a 22-year-old kid. You could tell he had grown up with a lot of responsibility. He had gone through some things. There was a presence about him."

    ""We were together a hundred hours a week," says Pichette. "If you spend that much time with somebody, you're going to get sick of them, but that was never the case with Brian. He was a unique individual. There was something to him. Literally, I've been saying for 10-plus years that if you spend 30 minutes around Brian Flores, you feel like you just got better as a person.""

    "Flores had transitioned from scouting assistant to pro scout to special teams assistant at that time, and he saw something in Slater that Slater might not have seen in himself. So he pushed the rookie in a firm yet supportive way. Even when Slater thought he had played well, Flores would tell him there was another level he could reach. That's just not it yet. You're not playing to your potential. That's not good enough. You can do better. You can BE better. You can be a Pro Bowl player in this league, but you're not playing like it right now.

    "He was the first coach who really believed in me and told me he thought I could be a good player in this league and have a decent career," Slater says. "He would always challenge me to do better. He would do it in private -- he would never embarrass me or anything like that -- but he would challenge me. One day, we played the Jets on Monday night, in 2010, and I played what at that time was a pretty good game for me on special teams. I had four tackles and played with aggression and confidence. I didn't hesitate in my assignments. He called me in after the game and said, 'That's it! If you can do that, you'll be OK. That's what we're looking for.' Something as simple as that really encouraged me, a young player trying to find his way, trying to build confidence, trying to establish himself. He made me feel that there was a place for me, that I did belong in this league. That meant a lot to me.""

    "The platitudes are never-ending when it comes to Flores, the Patriots' linebackers coach and de facto defensive coordinator who is expected to be named head coach of the Miami Dolphins as early as Monday, after New England takes on the Rams in Super Bowl LIII. He is a man of faith and character, honesty and integrity, discipline and humility. The next bad word you hear about him will be the first. Seemingly the only thing he has ever failed at is choosing a single word to describe his life's journey."

    Last November, a local YMCA honored him with a Legends award. Slater and safety Devin McCourty spoke on behalf of current Patriots, and Rob Ninkovich spoke as a retired one. Without fail, each highlighted B-Flow the man more than B-Flow the coach.

    "You guys have watched the games, and I'm sure you've heard of everything Flow has done as a coach, but I think for me it's been more personal. ... Throughout my time in New England, he's been more than just a coach to me; [it is] the closest relationship I've ever had with any coach in all of my sports to this day," McCourty said in his speech at the event. "I'm very thankful, not just of him, but him and his wife, Jenny. I've been over (to) his house for Thanksgiving, I've hung out with his mom and dad and his family, and I think that speaks volumes ... about the man he is. When free agency came, we had a one-on-one talk, we talked about our relationship, my future, everything on the table, and that just showed me, from beginning to end, he's always had my back as a person first, and I'm very thankful just to be able to learn under you, not just football but learn how to be a better man, a husband and a father."

    "Flores speaks about the importance of relationships and trust. It is what allows him to be tough on players without losing their respect. They understand that his words come from a good place and are only meant to help them. Many know this because their conversations run deeper than football. They are about family, faith, purpose.


    "We've talked a lot about marriage and raising children," says Slater. "His kids (Flores has three) are older than mine, and he's been married longer than I have been, but there are a number of questions I've asked him about raising kids and how he was raising his sons as it pertains to me raising my son. And something that is near and dear to both of us is our faith in the Lord. We talk about marriage and fatherhood through the filter of our faith. He's always been more invested in who I am as a man and making sure I'm OK off the football field than what goes on between the white lines."

    The conversations happen randomly, sometimes over text, sometimes in the hallway at work, between meetings or after hours. Flores always has an open door and a willing ear. He measures his leadership by not only how his players perform during games, but during the day, as they walk the halls or interact with support staff. Character matters to him. Being respectful matters. Finding positives where others focus on negatives matters."

    "The Dolphins are currently rebuilding, with only one winning season in the last 10 years and just two playoff appearances in the last 17 seasons. That does not intimidate Flores. He has been a winner everywhere he has been. His high school teams never lost a game; his college teams never had a losing season; and the Patriots are appearing in their seventh Super Bowl and seeking their fourth ring since he joined them. There isn't one member of New England's organization who expects anything other than success for Flores, should he indeed land in Miami. Why?"

    ""He's a really good football coach, and he's an even better human being; that's probably where it starts for me," says Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. "He's a great communicator, he's a great motivator, and he's not intimidated by anything at all, whether that's adversity or dealing with any player or coach. He's a problem solver. He's a guy that everybody respects and loves in our building. I think those are good attributes to have if you're heading into a new place and going to encounter a lot more responsibility. ... I'm a big fan of Brian Flores as a person and as a coach. If that's what he's doing, I'm sure he's going to be successful at it.""
     
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  7. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    And it looks like a new article with a similar look back!

     
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  8. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    So if he gets hired by Houston then what, the NFL is still racist. Even though I've gotten 2 head coaching jobs.
     
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  9. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Something tells me goodell is havibg houston play ball here.. hes no real finalist.. they just want it said out there that hes a finalist
     
  10. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    It’s a long time since I practiced law, and not I didn’t directly work with employment law, so take my musings with a truck load of salt.

    - Flores was promoted to the top of his profession at age 37. Makes it hard to claim discrimination when you’re one of the fastest promoted coaches in history.
    - Flores says he was primarily sacked for not tanking - i.e. not racism.
    - Flores says his refusal to tamper contributed - ie also not racism.
    - Flores hired and fired a LOT of coaches in his 3 years as HC. That presents a poison chalice for him. If he promoted minority coaches better than NFL average it goes to prove the Dolphins weren’t racist, if he did promote minority coaches at a level similar to NFL average it goes to prove that the racial mix is based on best candidate available regardless of race.
    - To prove systemic racism in coaching Flores’ lawyers would need to do something like ascertain the racial mix of interns who came into the NFL around the time he did (say 2002 to 2006) and compare how different racial groups were promoted. Hopefully team yearbooks and so on would help collecting this data in the internet era. Ideally you’d also want the racial mix for intern applications but I doubt anyone has tracked that data. The racial mix of players is irrelevant to the racial mix of coaches because they come from different candidate pools. His lawyers don’t appear to have done any of this type of groundwork.
    - Flores’ suit seems to have been triggered by not getting the NYG job. As an aside to me that’s Adam Gase levels of ego. However the main point is that it’s uncommon for a fired HC to be appointed as a HC for a new team in the same cycle. It’s far more common for that coach to go back to the co+ordinator ranks and prove themselves again. Adam Gase is the poster child for why this is a good idea.
    - Bringing the Broncos into the case was a tactical mistake because he has no objective evidence to support his allegations and they will be hyper motivated to engage in trench warfare litigation.

    From my perspective Flores’ is going to have a very difficult time proving the merits of his case.
     
  11. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    They're saying the first barrier, at least for Flores' lawsuit against the Dolphins, is the arbitration clause:
    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/arbitration-clause-could-quickly-derail-161426234.html
    If this goes to arbitration Flores loses.
     
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  12. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

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    I suspect the main purpose behind Flores's case is the attempt to correct (in his mind) the perception of his reputation as a coach. The team fires him and makes it public that he's difficult to work with. He fails to get a job quickly, files a highly controversial lawsuit, and appears on national TV the following morning in support of it. He's now got quite the spotlight to try to right his reputation. "The team is to blame, not me -- you can hire me and get a great coach."
     
  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You think so? I think it's having the opposite effect. I had respect for Flores before these accusations. Now I have no respect.

    I also think other teams would have been far more interested in Flores with 2 consecutive winning seasons to end his tenure here, whether he is immediately hired or not, than after these lawsuits. With these lawsuits he's basically telling everyone he can't be trusted with inside info, nor can he be trusted to NOT file a discrimination lawsuit even after he's hired.
     
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  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You do have a pro Miami Dolphin bias. You are not the target demo.
     
  15. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

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    Oh I definitely think it's backfiring, but I think his intent was to right his reputation by casting blame on the organization in a highly public manner.
     
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  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It didn't let me quote where you shared the contract language. However, I wonder if it matters that Flores is no longer an employee...is the arbitration still binding? I would think not.

    I was in a similar situation years ago. I worked for the state, stuff happened, and my immediate boss had an axe to grind. I tried to follow protocol to protect myself, but I got so tired of playing the games that I quit. Afterwards, however, I could still file a harassment claim since I quit over said harassment.

    Long story short, I was still forced to arbitrate and it didn't go anywhere. But I didn't get a lawyer either. I don't know if that's standard in this kind of thing or not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think it is too early to say it is backfiring.

    To Dolphin fans, sure.

    I don't know about the general public or the league at large.
     
  18. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wouldn't take this case too personally as a Dolphins fan. The language of the 58 page filing is directed mainly at the NFL with Flores' experience with the Dolphins just one of many examples of perceived injustices directed against black coaches. It's pretty general really relying on simple math to demonstrate the percentages of black coaches. There are no claims of racism against the Dolphins organization other than the general claims against the NFL. There was no claim that Flores was fired due to racist biases, none.
    There was only a stat that black head coaches were 4x more likely to be fired after a winning season than a white HC.
    Flores does not present himself as the center of attention but, only as an example. That was my impression.
    It's well worth the read to pare away the misconceptions being presented as fact.
     
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  19. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    The problem with the general approach is that Flores is presenting his case, saying he personally was discriminated against. The point of a law suit is to repair the damage that was done to you by the other parties to the suit. It doesn’t matter if other people in other organizations were discriminated against.

    My general impression from glancing over it, I admit I didn’t read the suit closely after the first 2 or 3 pages, was that the lawyers knew it was a weak case so they filled in a lot of motherhood statements and general grievances to gloss over the lack of specific harms done to Flores.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  20. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    If clown farts was "racially discriminatory" God knows Chris Grier wouldn't have avoided the chopping block on multiple occasions.

    Flores is starting to sound like a little cry girl. Dumb *** probably just ruined his chances at a HC'ing gig.

    Know all that talk about Flores not being able to play the 'political football game.' Well he may as well have just tied an anchor to his feet and jumped in the deep blue, as far as his future career prospects go.

    However this pans out, all this dork drama doesn't spell any near future success for the Fins. And since that's personally all I care about; Wake me up when it's over.

    FWIW, if Dumbo Flores figured out he had a decent RB on the practice squad for the 2 month period (8 games) he existed there *cough* DUKE, the Dolphins likely are a playoff team and this circus side show wouldn't be happening.
     
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  21. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    A perspective from Tony Dungy on head coaches and the interview process, starting from 8:13:

     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  22. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

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    I suspect the tipping point for Flores in this matter was in finding out (from Belichick) the Giants had decided on Daboll without even interviewing Flores. I suspect Flores had planned to use interviews with teams as a forum in which to tell his side of the story with the Dolphins, plead his case, and try to correct the misperceptions (in his mind) of his reputation, brought about by the Dolphins' comments about his being difficult to work with. When he discovered he wasn't even getting interviewed before teams decided on someone else, he had to go about things in this way to try to right his reputation. He's now "interviewing" with teams by broadcasting his side of the story in a highly public manner. I don't think it'll work out in his favor in that way, but I believe that was his intent.
     
  23. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  24. Lithoman

    Lithoman New Member

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    I'm on board with Flores... when I think of the Giants, I think of Dead Stank Fish Tuna... AND how bad he tanked The Phil's with Ireland... y'all remember that collasal cluster storm... Bill Belicheck came out of the Dead Stank Fish system...and his stupendous shanking of Cleveland on his first try as a HC... then we have Deflate Gate, Video Gate and all the other dirty underhanded crap Belichek mastered in NE...just a chip off the ol' block of Dead Stank Fish...

    The most laughable part I read in a post. Is people complaining about not tanking the whole 2019 season to get Burrow... but then I reminisce about people on these boards wanting to get Leinart when he was coming out, sure he was the next football God legend...

    Facts are, we had three shots at Jonathan Taylor, and whiffed the Hades out of that... Now, we got a real shot at Tyler Lindbaum, and I am sure Grier is going to blow that opportunity...and then trade up for Kenneth Walker III to run right behind Lindbaum...

    As for the owner carousel.... the owners can most certainly force an owner out!!! The owners control the league.. Jerry Jones is THE most powerful of them all... Goodell is a figurehead, he is controlled by the owners...there is NO independence by The Commish, he does the owners bidding.... it would be 31 in favor of taking the team away from cluster flick Ross, and I say good riddance... Then HIRE Flores back and boot that scrub Grier...

    As bad as Heizenga was, I long for those days...
     
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  25. Lithoman

    Lithoman New Member

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    Oh ya, so the Rooney Rule ONLY matters when it's a darling of the NFL... what a disgrace...
     
  26. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I gave this my best effort, but I have no idea what you just said.
     
  27. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Uhh.. yup.
     
  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Woah, that's a quick change of tune...but it was absolutely the correct one to make. You can't preach diversity and then dismiss a diversity complaint within 20 minutes. It's also a good sign that he touched on Flores directly and his other accusations (integrity of the game).
     
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  29. Lithoman

    Lithoman New Member

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    You must of been a Weinert fan...
     
  30. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  31. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Well, maybe the rumors of Flores being an ******* who’s hard to work with are accurate….
     
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  32. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Don't forget, Flores names the Texans in his lawsuit, claiming they fired David Culley due to racial reasons, not because of his 4-13 record lol. Yup, fire a black coach after one season with a 4-13 record and it obviously must be for racial reasons! Can't be because of that 4-13 record lol. Like no white coaches were ever fired after one season. Tons of them have! Flores is a joke.

    Glad he didn't get the job. And it's obvious Caserio (Houston's GM) isn't going to work with someone that bites the hand that feeds him.
     
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  33. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

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    That lawsuit just goes to show that there are lots of attorneys out there who will gladly take an implausible case and file a lawsuit on the basis of it, as long as they can make hundreds of dollars an hour for doing so. I suspect Flores's attorneys have gotten a retainer from him consisting of thousands of dollars in fact. I strongly doubt they're doing this case on a contingency basis, i.e., getting money from Flores only as a percentage of the damages collected from a successful lawsuit, unless of course they believe the publicity they get from the case can get them more clients and more money in the future (essentially an advertisement of their services).
     
  34. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

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    The problem with that logic is that Flores has now entered into the realm of the unfalsifiable. No matter what happens with any team throughout the league in the area of hiring, the cause of their actions can be attributed to racism and/or not hiring Flores because of his lawsuit. There is no way anyone can falsify that position. If a team hires a white coach, it's racism; if it hires a person of color other than Flores, it's because of his lawsuit.
     
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  35. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I would find it admirable if Flores was willing to torpedo his career because he believed black coaches weren't getting a fair shot but it doesn't really seem like he cares about that and its really just all about him. Ross and/or Grier look better by the minute for moving on.
     
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  36. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Where's his statement on the Miami Dolphins hiring a black coach? Again.
    Maybe he's in the crowd that he's not "black enough" since he's mixed.
     
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  37. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stephen A. claimed as much in a clip I saw yesterday. Basically stating the the lawsuit was in regards to black men not getting hired, not mixed.
     
  38. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    McDaniel is not black. At least not physically. I don't what his dad looks like but I know McDaniel doesn't look black at all. So no, that doesn't count.
     
  39. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Interesting. I thought the discussion was about minority coaches, not just black?

    This is really gross to read.
     
  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Stephen A.'s job is to yell at the screen and say things.
     
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